I've been on the site for about 2 months, and after reading many stories here, I've often wondered which is the lesser of two evils:<P>A) being separated from you WS while the A continues and/or they waffle between BS, OP, divorce or reconcilliation <P>B) living with your WS while the A continues and/or while they waffle between BS, OP, divorce or reconcilliation <P>I think in scenario (A), the WS may need the freedom to pursue the relationship with OP to see if it has the depth to be sustained; This may give BS's the chance to remove themselves from the situation and begin to move on; If/when the A dies out, the WS may hit rock bottom and realize what they stand to lose; Also, this may give the WS some space to make the decision they feel is best even if the A ends<P>However, in scenario (B), living with the BS may make maintaining the affair more trouble than it's worth and it may die out; My concern is will the WS always be wondering "what if"... On the other hand, living with the BS may give the WS the chance to have their cake and eat ot too by having different EN's met by OM and BS.<P>In my situation, my W and I are still living together and probably will be until we reconcile or divorce. We have a 3 year old daughter and neither of us has any intention of leaving. My W is still in contact with OM, but I'm not sure to what degree. <P>I welcome all opinions!<P>sad dad<P>

I just posted on you other thread <P>I have to say that living with your WS gives you the best opportunity to Plan A. They still get a major dose of reality because the A is not a secret anymore and they have to deal with the fact that you know and try to maintain the A. That's a hard job. To me, if they haven't left you have a better chance. Leaving is the biggest step for them. Once they are gone, you have no real hold anymore.

Sad Dad,<P>Please see my post to you in your "marathon" thread for the outline of our story. <P>For my WS, separation was essential. I was very lucky. She rejected him, and at the time, I was unaware of the reason he left. I was also lucky that I had had 6 months in which to begin making changes. However, he did not "see" the changes until he came home.<P>I must also say that with the exception of the last 2 weeks, I have only felt at peace during 2 periods in 18 months - while we were separated and while we were on a family vacation in July. Not being confronted with our problems on a daily basis while we were separated was a relief to me.<P>I did not choose the separation - was adamantly against it. I "knew" without being told that he was leaving in order to have more freedom to see someone else. Looking back, however, I think it was necessary for him to remove the "what if. . . ." <P>Newwoman

My W has denied the A every chance she got, even though I have alot of info to prove otherwise (most of which she doesn't know about). The fact that she denies it tells me that somewhere deep inside she knows it's wrong. <P><p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 18, 2001).]

Sad Dad,<P>I don't want to discourage you, you are being so strong. However, although "deep down" she may know it's wrong, it is likely buried very deep down at the moment. <P>My H is a very good man. During the A, however, he was absolutely convinced that what he was doing "right". He said, for the first time "what I did was wrong" last week.<P>Even though she denies the A, she knows you know. That puts a great deal of pressure on her. She may still decide that the A is more trouble than it is worth.<P>Don't give up.<P>Newwoman

newwoman,<P>I will not give up. I love my W and I love my daughter too much. That's why I said in my other post, this is a marathon. I'm in it for the long run.<P>Thanks! I've got to sign off now.<P>sad dad

sad dad, et al:<P>Please see my forthcoming thread about my thoughts on separation during Plan A.<P>Thanks,<BR>zen

My H and I separated for 4 months. I truly believe that if I hadn't kicked him out (he wanted to leave anyways.. I just made it happen a few weeks earlier than we had originally agreed upon), we would never have reconciled.<P>Our kids are so young, that I was able to enforce visitations be here, in my home. That gave me my opportunity to plan A. Oh yeah, I still LBed bigtime, but I know for a fact that it would have been worse if he was still living here.<P>IMO, I cannot see how anyone is able to plan A while their WS is still in the same house, yet still seeing the OP. But I also believe, that it should be the WS that leaves, not the BS. <P>Karen<BR>

sad dad interesting question you post. I have to say that in my situation WH seems to be definitely waffling. He knows I know but I haven't got enough proof yet and he is not going to admit to it. I think by him leaving or me asking him to leave has made his little A, friendship, or whatever you want to call it easier on him. He doesn't have to deal with me if he doesn't want to. He can just up and leave not call me. I know that soon very soon this is going to blow up and that's what I'm waiting for. These past 5 mos. have been pure torture but every day I am stronger than the day before. <BR>cybil

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cybil:<BR><B>I think by him leaving or me asking him to leave has made his little A, friendship, or whatever you want to call it easier on him. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't know your situation so I can't say I agree or disagree for you. My impression is that affairs are a fantasy world where they don't have to face the real world issues. The real world doesn't exist when in an affair. By giving them plenty of time to be together(separation) they start running into the real world much quicker. It will be great for them the first few weeks, but eventually their anoying habits will start to grate on each other. It took a couple of years of dating before we were ready to get married. She's not going to get into another long lasting relationship in 6 weeks. My wife is with him because he meets some of her emotional needs, but not all of them. By taking myself out of the picture he's forced to try to meet those as well and he'll never meet them as well as I can. <P>It just takes time.<BR>

my opinion... based on MY situation.... we are separated. I can't fill many EN's, but I can avoid LB's. the 3 weeks he was here was torture. If he hadn't have moved, I'd have killed him, , or LB'd way too much, and we'd probably already be divorced. I don't know. I have much better control over myself with him gone, and I can prepare for a life without him - if that is what it comes to. I was VERY attached, and thought I was going to DIE without him. But I have grown so strong now. <P>Also, I am such a worrier. If he were here, I'd be constantly worried about where he was, why hasn't he called, who is he with, etc. With him gone, I just put it out of my mind. peace<P>so, negatives: I can't fill EN's very much. I don't get to see him - I miss him. No SF for me . No one to talk to.<P>positives: No LB's, not as much worrying, can do what I want, less laundry .<P>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited August 18, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited August 18, 2001).]

Faith i have to agree with you ive spent 14 months in total dispair crying begging LB big time ive packed his thins and told him to go twice and then got him home again anyway then two weeks ago i told him thats it we are over and he moved into our caravan at his yard three days later he called in to get mail and we talked he said he just thought it was another tantrum but i said know way not this time i love you but ive had enough anyway we talked and decided rather than end it we would have some space and like you i find it much easier with him not here full time nore more tears in front of him and no more LB i just hope if he sees her more he might wake up <P>------------------<BR>lizzle

IMHO and in hindsight, if the WS is not committed to working on the marriage, they are better off out there in the world. Then they get to see that the BS is not the one contributing to the A. The danger here is that they actually like it and for a while they may. Eventually they don't for the most part but again nothing in life is guaranteed. <P>My H came home but he told me that he was beginning to get comfortable at Ow's house. Hm...... Would that comfortable stage last? IMHO. No but I could not guarantee that. Just knowing how OW plays her cards makes me come to that conclusion but if she is a good actress, she could keep up appearances for a while. However, her neighbors are aware of her morals. Can't say they all like her now. But on the other hand some might. <P>It is a risk either way, but for the BS a hard line to take but when it does, most BS's find a piece of relief. You don't really know how much stress you are carrying with the WS as home and the A in full swing, until they are gone and out of your home. <P>At lest that is the way it was for me. <P>L. <BR>

Thanks for all your replies. I've kind of been thinking that separating would be the best thing for both of us.<BR>Let her see if "the grass is greener". Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. I won't leave because I want to work on the marriage and because it will hurt my chances of custody should it come to that. She won't leave for that same reason. I've asked her to. She said "I'm supposed to pack up my daughter and leave". I said "No, just you".<P>We're at a stalemate and I don't see it ending any time soon. I have an appointment with Steve on Monday. Maybe he'll have some advice. I really don't have any options at this point.<P>sad dad

Hang on til Monday. Steve will definitely help you. be sure to let us know what he says.<P>Stay the course til then. I don't think you should bring it up again til then either. <P>Seems like to summarize what we all said, separation should be avoided if at all possible. As long as LB's can be controlled and the WS is not mis-behaving too terribly. This allows for the most EN's being met. But, separation does not mean the end of the marriage, either, and can provide the BS with some peace and boundaries.

Just a suggestion. Try going over to the d/d board post to Fatherof1husbandof0. He is in your situation. They are divorced and he has custody of his little 4 year old daughter. His wife is the WS. <P>He might be able to give you valuable insight. He and another poster there help give me the response to my thread about the 5 stages of grieving. <P>There are many strong men out there as well as women who are fighting for the life of their families. You should have the same opportunity. <P>L. <BR>

Okay, so I never wrote that thread about Plan A during separation. Here's my 2 cents...<P>My W came to me in May and said she wanted us to get separated and for me to move out. She was very adamant that this was what she wanted and she in no way desired to work on the marriage. It eventually came out that she was seeing someone else who was obviously pushing for me to move out.<P>I LB'ed a little (hadn't found this site yet) but was mostly very emotional and upset. My W continued the A despite my pleas for her to stop and work on M and in fact starting sort of putting the A in my face. This went on for about a month and a week, the whole time me trying to Plan A and her basically detaching herself from me.<P>Then in July, I let her know I had hired an attorney, that I'd had her followed and a PI's report prepared. I was ready to sue her for adultery unless she let me revise the terms of the separation agreement. The agreement was actually quite fair to me financially (OM has lots of $$$) but I wanted a few things changed, and I also wanted to feel like I had some control in all of this. Believe it or not, things seemed to improve between my W and I after this... She seemed to respect me more.<P>Once we had the details worked out, we agreed that I would move out on July 16, coinciding with my trip to NYC. Why did I move out? She brought the house into the marriage, plus her daughter (my step) lives there, so I really had no choice but to be the one to go. Sure, technically I could have stayed, but it would have been reversed in filing the agreement etc.<P>Since July 4 (last big LB) I have been Plan A'ing as best I can. But I have to tell you, doing it since I've left has been really difficult. I am still in close contact with my step-daughter, and I do lots for her, but my W has pushed me more and more to get out of her life. A few weeks ago, before she went on a vacation with OM, she was letting me Plan A more and it was definitely causing a reaction... But since she's been back, she's been distant and asked for more and more space.<P>For example, she has not called me in the last two weeks except to talk about help she needs with bills or things relating to the sep agreement. Before the trip, it was "Oh I want to see your apartment!" and "Can I help you decorate it?" and "I hope you know that I'm not looking at this separation as we're definitely getting a divorce." Now that OM's in power, she has completely removed herself from me, except when she needs something.<P>You may be asking why I don't call her and try to Plan A her a little more. Well, she made it clear she didn't want that. I waffle between saying screw it and just calling her and bugging her anyway, versus just doing nothing and letting her call me.Somehow the former seems weak and unattractive. I've been doing the latter, waiting for her to make the next move unless it involved my step-daughter, who gets my love and attention no matter what.<P>So being separated for me has not looked good so far in terms of working on our relationship. It's been good for me as I have been able to take good care of myself and get some perspective. But it seems that for her, it has meant unbridled time with OM. But maybe we're not supposed to be working on our relationship right now... Maybe it's not the time yet...<P>Hope this helps,<BR>zen

Faith1, Orchid, zen,<P>Thanks for your replies. I was only looking for opinions on living together vs. separating. I'm not doing anything at this point, except talking to Steve. It's not the ideal situation, but is's not unbearabe. I'm doing quite well.<P>sad dad<BR>

Hmm sad dad- I've done it both ways. H was surprised I didnt kick him out right away but I made it clear from the start I was against divorce. After 10 days of him waffling and staying out late with OW though I asked him to move out to think.I thought he wouldnt run off with OW then because she had just moved to take a job transfer because she said she was 'sick of him not divorcing me and still coming home every night.' He said he'd go stay in hotel- of course that just lasted one night until he called OW who had taken a job transfer- she let him stay in her empty condo that was up for sale and she came back to see him.Of course he told her that I kicked him out of our house and that fueled her desire to help him divorce me to be with her. Is your W's OM single or married? Do you think OM wants a long relationship with your W? If so separation could be very risky. He lied to me and said he was not in contact with her. This went on 4 wks until the condo sold and he said he wanted to reconcile - he said all the 'right' things but his heart wasnt in it. After he moved back in he refused to leave again due to the custody thing. Slept on the couch again.during the time he was out of the house I actually felt more in control in my life and less stressed. He came over alot to see the kids at night after work. I'd let him stay for dinner some nights. He came by so much I finally told him he'd have to make a schedule so that I could plan things out in advance. OW immediately assumed H moved out to divorce me and she found a divorce attorney for him to see on his lunch hrs- that began his plan to file on me which he did after he moved back in and said he 'didnt have any feelings for me still' I'm not sorry I asked him to move out because he was flaunting the A by staying out all night with her. But I do believe separation makes the emotional attachment even stronger between the two of them. They are in a plan against YOU! Have you thought about hiring a PI so as to have proof of your wife's A? What about a legal separation- that would force her to think more clearly about what she will be giving up and what split custody would be like. Let us know what Steve says. I do think Plan B is hard to do with kids- I know my kids wanted to see their dad alot and I let them- its not THEIR fault some crazy OW was trying to break up our family life. lifeismessy

lim,<P>From what I know, my W and OM were just two people who were going through similar unhappiness in their marriages that began confiding in each other. OM is going through a D, if not already divorced. No kids. I know separation is not the answer and will likely just give them the chance to get closer. But living with her is so hard. There is no affection, no communication. We talk, but it's only general conversation. We never spend any time alone together except for an hour or so each night after our daughter goes to bed. All we do then is watch TV.<P>You mentioned hiring a P.I. First of all, wouldn't that be a major LB? Also, unless he got pictures of them having sex, what more proof do I need? I've got the tapes from the telephone recorder, her cell phone bill from January, our home phone bills from March & April and the voice mails I've heard. She is not aware. She is not aware I know all of this, but I've got the proof I need.<P>Separation is not an option since neither of us will leave our daughter. I leagl separation is not an option since we are living together. Plan B is not an option because we are living together, and even if we weren't, I don't know that plan B can work when there is a child involved. It could have custody ramifications. I just wish there was something I could do to give her a dose of reality. The bottom line is I have no options and it sucks.<P>Friday night and last night she went out with girlfriends.<BR>I worked most of the day yesterday and spent this afternoon at a friend's house. My W was in a bad mood all weekend and didn't talk much. She seldom eats dinner, in fact doesn't eat much at all.<P>sad dad<p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 20, 2001).]