First, a quick background. W had A, D-day was end of may 2001. <P>She is in love with OM, not sure if she wants to work on our marriage or not. We are still together, so I think I am lucky compared to some of the stories I have read here.<P>We were doing real good for a while. She seemed almost ready to forget about him and come to me. But, I did some snooping and was just pushy in general, and she pulled away.<P>I am trying to plan A the best I can. I just recently got started with a concerted effort not to LB or try to push her to choosing me. Before, I was bad at confronting her "stories" about what she was doing. I gave her lots of reasons not to be around me. How do I react to her lying to me? I am not snooping anymore (looking through her stuff, things like that) because that did me no good after I knew she was having an affair. <P>I guess the question is, how much should I try to get her to tell me the truth? <P>She is only going to tell me as much as she wants. I have realized that I basically should never assume that she is telling the whole story, and that I just need to be at peace with that until she decides to work on us. Me asking her to tell me everything is not going to get anywhere. If anything, it probably makes her feel bad. For plan A, I do not want to be the source of her bad feelings.<P>She has said that she is not ready to give up on me. She is not ready to give him up either. She is waiting for some sort of a spark between us to tell her that we will work. I have sounded like a broken record telling her that as long as she is in love with OM that the spark probably will not happen. <P>Frustration is just mounting I guess. Playing the waiting game. I hear some of your stories out there about the WS living with the OP, things WS's do to BS's, and I am amazed at the strength out there. I am relieved that my situation is not like that (yet), because I do not think I can handle much more then I am taking now.<p>[This message has been edited by arthur1234 (edited September 06, 2001).]

So sorry you're going through this. Were you ever separated? I think that the book (SAA) says to Plan A as long as you are able to without being in danger of losing your love for your spouse. My problem was that my H left home, then I found out about A. I plan A'd with him gone, and then had to go to Plan B (the letter of no contact with him). He only lasted 2 days and I let him come home. He's lied since being home about seeing OW and calling her. I'm getting kind of tired of doing all the work, but I think we have to keep reminding ourselves is that they are in a fog. If we can make the marriage (our part) as good as possible, perhaps they will truly see what they'd be giving up. My H doesn't get the "as long as you are in love with her, you won't be in love with me" speech either. Are you two in counseling? My H has waffled on that as well. This a.m., I told him that we HAD to go to counseling or I would need to ask him to leave. Hope this helps some.

Arthur, you and I are very much in the same boat, brotherman. But I think you answered your own question...<P>You asked "how much should I try to get her to tell me the truth?" and then said "She is only going to tell me as much as she wants."<P>So why bother?<P>Just do your part. NO Love Busters and tons of Love Bank deposits. If she is lying to you, that is her choice. Your actions should have a positive impact on her and cause her to stop lying. If it doesn't. She doesn't care enough about your marriage and you need to prepare for that possibility.<P>So what do you do in the meantime? Learn from the lesson I just learned this morning...<P>I've been Plan Aing wonderfully for 2 weeks. Less than wonderfully for the month or so before that. Why? Because I snooped and snooped for the month or so before that. For the past two weeks, I haven't snooped. And I've believed everything my wife has said. And we've done wonderfully. She's almost cried several times, just sitting there, looking at me, and said that she loves me SO much. I've been on the top of the world.<P>So what happened this morning? I snooped. I found out that she lied to me. Now Plan Aing is gonna be tough again. I wish I didn't know. I wish I could have just kept my ish together and kept at it. <P>So don't try and get truth out of her. It will come out when she is ready, or not at all. For your own good, just be da man and don't let yourself be troubled.<BR>

Just wondering if she has admitted A? Very similar to my situation. My W trying very hard to hide A and does not know that I know. All of the advice seems to be to not force the issue as that will appear controlling and not help matters. I have the same question as you. Should I confront her and try to get her to tell the truth?

Godly Man,<P>Thanks for your comments. I also find it very hard not to snoop a little. Some things are just obvious signs. <P>My W believes it is God's wish for her to be happy and with OM. They constantly exchange religious passages and believe they are soulmates.

TE,<P>In a word, NO!!! You can't "get" her to tell you anything. <BR>She knows and she knows you know. Some WS's admit it and some don't, for whatever reason. It doesn't matter and her admitting it won't change anything. Her feelings for you and for OM are what they are. All you can do is work on yourself and make yourself more attractive to her, maybe then her feelings for you will change. If that happens, she will be conflicted, and that's good for you. It will make her waffle, which will be an LB to OM and may cause him to LB. Be the better man.<P>sad dad

You appear to have all your answers in your own post. <P>When my WH says something that I question in my mind that is where the questioning stays--in my mind. If you were to approach your W about it , it would be like calling her a liar (major LB).<P>The less you LB, the safer your W will feel about talking to you and being open and honest with you, because she will know that you will not blow up at her.<P>Good Luck and Hang in There!!! We're here for you!!!!!!

myownme --<P>we have not been seperated. she did leave for a night to a hotel, and I was away for the weekend, but that was it. At times, I start to not care if things do not work, and start to wonder why I would want her back. <P>your feelings seem to be close to mine, good to know I am not alone, but sad to know that others are in the same situation.<P>We are in counseling, both together and individually. she is getting tired of the joint counseling, because the adviser has been telling her that she needs to let OM go in order to give us a fair chance, and that she needs to forgive me for our history. She does not like it when anyone tries to tell her that her relationship with the OM is likely to fail either.... Basically, now that I have quit pushing her on these topics, the counselor has started. <P>good luck with your marriage .....<P>Godlyman --<P>argghhhh......... your advice is good. life is just frustrating. Part of my problem is that she is a really bad liar. It is soooooo easy to see through her. So, I just know when something is up that she does not tell me about. <P>I do not think I can bring myself to believe everything she says, but I will just have to try to accept that I need to just keep on keeping on, regardless.<P>About what happened to you this morning... will it be hard for you to plan A because you know she lied, or did you tell her that you know she lied?<P>keep at it, and thanks very much for the reply.<P>TE -- <P>Yeah, she admitted to it. When I found out about it, I went semi-ballistic. There was no hiding that I knew. In fact, I found out where he lived, went there, found her car, and sat outside until she came out.<P>Here is my 2 cents for your situation... I think she needs to know that you know. Please do not take that to the bank, because I am pretty new here, and I have not exactly been the smartest person when dealing with my own situation. If you tell her, find the least damaging way to do it, and then stop any snooping you are doing. If you keep snooping and investigating after you know for sure that an affair is occuring, you will undermine your efforts to make things work.<P>This is much easier typed then done though. I am exhibit number 1 of how hard it is to do. <P><p>[This message has been edited by arthur1234 (edited September 06, 2001).]

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

It will be hard to Plan A, because I know she lied.<P>I won't tell her I know, though. I'm just going to do my best not to snoop anymore and keep at it. ZERO Love Busters is crucial!!

M&J & OOOO --<P>[grumbling sounds in the background] --<P>yep, you are absolutely right. it is sooooo hard though.<P>I have been going through stages here. <P>First, no more snooping through her private stuff.<BR>Second, no more snooping through her stuff that is not so private.<BR>Third, (where I am trying to get through now), no more snooping through public information <BR>Fourth, (where I want to be yesterday!), realizing that I cannot do anything about what she does, and just concentrate on me.<P>Gosh, is it hard. <P>thanks for the encouragement.<P>Godlyman --<P>good luck with Plan A. I cannot say much more to help, but I wanted you to know that your posts have helped me. (if that helps you at all???...)<P><p>[This message has been edited by arthur1234 (edited September 06, 2001).]

It sounds as if your couselor is attacking your W. Perhaps finding another counselor would help. I don't know for sure because I never went to counseling.<P>We are all guilty of creating an enviroment for As to occur, not just the WS!!!!<P>I would think that your counselor should attack you as well. <p>[This message has been edited by M&J (edited August 20, 2001).]

It helps, knowing that you are able to learn from my mistakes. I know what I need to do, I just need to find the strength to do it.<P>We both do.<P>You've made some good decisions. It's for your own good. You already know what she is doing. And like you said, there's nothing you can do to stop it except try and make her want to.<P>You can do it! We both can.

I guess I understand the frustration, but what exactly are the expectations? Total honesty? Do BS's really think they can handle total honesty?<P>My H freaks out over every little detail. And in arguments likes to parade them all out for me to discuss. So just how many details do you think I am comfortable revealing?????? Lots easier to just say "nope, haven't talked to him"<P>At first the lying came from trying to protect H from being hurt. Now its to protect myself.

Total honesty is unecessary. As much as a BS might think they want to hear it all. It just hurts too much in the end. But that is a far cry from being honest about whether or not no-contact is still being maintained.

Lexxxy --<P>I am working on my reaction to what my W tells me. You are probably right, I will do better for now without knowing the whole truth. Since my wife has not agreed to no contact, I do not really need to know every time she talks to him, but she has told me she would not see him out of work. that is what I am sure happened this weekend, but that I am letting go so I do not make her upset.<P>The big thing I wanted to say though was this. I just wish that what she was telling me was the truth. Not that she was telling me everything that is going on, but that what she was telling me IS everything that is going on. <BR>

Arthur,<P>As much as Wss say they lie to protect 'someone', in the long run it is not protection that is felt it is another form of betrayal. So do we like it when the government pours nuclear wastes in our back yard and doesn't tell us? Just wait for the aftereffects, then fess up to an oops?<P>Right, if the Ws's are convinced of that logic then they can keep it. I don't see where that logic works in any other aspect of our lives. Most WSs hate when they are being 'protected' under a cloak of a lie. In fact, they become very very angry and defensive. Seen it with my own eyes. Of couse there might be those few who actually like to lie both ways. <P>Nope, lying is a form of betrayal and it is just a matter of time before that is known. Then what?<P>Now Bs's when your WS is being truthful, how are you handling it? Ws's if your BS is not handling it well, work with them. After all you have given them a bitter pill to swallow, what makes you think they are going to be happy about all of it?<P>JMHO,<BR>L.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited August 21, 2001).]

Here is what I am figuring out from all of this....<P>My W has not committed to reconciliation yet. If she had, I would have different expectations.<P>Since she is not working on us, I cannot really expect her to do anything. I can tell her that some of the things she does hurts me, but I know that I do not exactly rank number 1 in her priorities, so I am bound to get hurt at some point. She is going to do whatever she decides to do, regardless of what I want.<P>All I can do is work on me. If she does something I do not like, I can either blow up about it (LB), or try to be good and keep on plan A. If she lies to me, I can get mad about it (LB), or try to keep on plan A. If I think she is lying, I can press the issue (LB), snoop (LB), or just let it go, and try to keep on plan A.<P>I agree, lying is betrayal, and the things that she is lying about are betraying me. That hurts, and everytime, it lowers my love for her a little. I have tried to tell her that, without threatening, that eventually my love for her will be gone.<P>I guess I just have to deal with everything, even the betrayals, as best I can if I want us to have a chance. If she keeps making these withdrawals in my love bank, I will eventually not care anymore. I hope the fog clears before then, or that I jump to plan B in time and save my love for her, but now I can only do what I have the power to do.<P>Sorry for the ramble. All of this has been spelled out before me in SAA, on this website, and in these forums. It is sooo different to read it compared to living it and starting to feel the insights.

You're right, man. I read all about those principles and thought I was living them, but when you do really start to live them, they feel like a new sneaker - uncomfortable at first, but you get used to it, and in the end, they work the best.<P>You've got it right, though. Just keep your resolve. If it seems wicked, or twisted, that is because it is. It's totally not fair. But aren't you willing to make that sacrifice just for the <I>chance</I> that she comes out of it and you two will be as one again? I think I am. And like you said, if it gets so bad to where you don't seem to care anymore whether or not she stays, then it is definitely time for Plan B. For her own good as well as yours.<P>I can tell you this much, if you stick to it - zero love busters and tons of love bank deposits - it works. It's starting to work on my wife. I can tell. As for whether or not we make it - I don't know. But she is starting to come about. Like an oil tanker trying to make a turn at full speed, I know, but she's coming about.

thanks Godlyman...<P>I feel stupid. Without following most of the guidelines, I almost had her back, only 4-5 weeks after D-day. But then, I started all of the LBs, and we got pushed way back. Now, I am trying plan A in whole.<P>No guarantees about my current marriage, but I will come out of this a better person not matter what.<P>thanks for the encouragement. I wish you well.