Before I hop on my soapbox....I just want to stress to you folks that I am a BS. I'm 3 weeks away from my 11th wedding anniversary, after getting my divorce dismissed on June 28th and going into recovery with my H after years of problems, culminating in an affair that started in Nov 99.<P>It's been a very long hard road, and an incredible struggle.<P>I want to share the MOST IMPORTANT lesson I had to learn, and I want to stress to all of you BS's out there, that my marriage would be OVER, DEAD, DONE, if I had not learned this lesson and put it into action in every part of my life.<P>What was that lesson? I had to respectfully ACCEPT my husband AS HE WAS/IS. With absolutely NO lovebusting <B>disrespectful judgements</B> and <B>selfish demands</B>.<P>I can't speak for my husband, but I can assure you that it is my understanding that it was this deep, significant change in me that made him decide to work at our marriage.<P>What bothers me a great deal about this forum lately, is that I see MANY disrespectful judgements on the part of the BS.<P>Some of you are taking the moral high ground. Some of you are berating WSs that post here, on the grounds that they don't seem to be expressing the viewpoints that YOU think they should.<P>I've got alot of respect for WSs like SNL and Lexxxy and others that I can't think of right now because I'm too tired. <P>You see, folks, they are being very honest about WHO THEY ARE. <P>You BSs need to do some serious soul searching.<P>I agree, adultery is wrong, bad, horrible, yadda yadda. I know, I was betrayed. I know how awful it feels.<P>But you know...my H doesn't see it from MY viewpoint. He has apologized to me for hurting me, but honestly, I don't think he truly thinks he did something awful. <P>He'll admit he made a "mistake".<P>Well, I could hold out and demand that he think and feel about the affair the way I think is proper. But then I wouldn't be married. <P>I had to accept, really accept, that my H was who he was - NOT who I wanted him to be.<P>I'd LOVE for him to be a weeping, guilt striken, remorseful WS. But he isn't. He doesn't see it my way. And I am absolutely dead wrong to expect that of him. And so I don't.<P>Dr. Harley says about Disrespectful Judgements:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In the final analysis, disrespectful judgments represent an effort to force our spouses to give us what we want in marriage, but it's often cleverly disguised. Instead of making an outright demand, we present our problem as if it were really our spouse's personal shortcoming. We try to "straighten out" our spouse in an effort to get our way. <P>At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our spouses a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want. <P>A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever one spouse tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on the other. When a husband tries to force his point of view on his wife, he's just asking for trouble. When a wife assumes that her own views are right and her husband is woefully misguided -- and tells him so -- she enters a minefield. <P>In most cases, a disrespectful judgment is simply a sophisticated way of getting what one spouse wants from the other. But even when there are the purest motives, it's still a stupid and abusive strategy. It's stupid because it doesn't work, and it's abusive because it causes unhappiness. If we think we have the right -- even the responsibility -- to impose our view on our spouses, our efforts will almost invariably be interpreted as personally threatening, arrogant, rude, and incredibly disrespectful. That's when we make sizable withdrawals from the Love Bank. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think he sums it up pretty darn well. <P>Acceptance of reality that our spouses just don't see things the way we do, and don't have the same values or morals we do, is the only way we can avoid the disrespectful judgements.<P>My H came home because I stopped judging him and started accepting him as he was. <P>Did that make me a doormat? No. Because when he wanted to come home, we sat down and talked about what I needed from him. And he offered to do those things, BY CHOICE, because he was CHOOSING to come home.<P>He didn't do it out of guilt, or because he capitulated to my superior moral position.<P>And so I'll repeat my topic line:<P>Do you want to be RIGHT - or do you want to be MARRIED?<P>Because you can't be both.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Well said.<P>I did get the stricken, remorseful h much later when I didn't expect it. It didn't make that much difference after all. What has made the difference is that both of us decided to build a new marriage by Harley principles.

Wow! Thanks for that. I needed to see it today. I'm feeling very frustrated today. I sent Plan B letter to my H and I believe now that he took it as an ultimatum, which it most certainly was not. It was full of love bank deposits and no love busters. I've been very sad that he came home, but didn't end contact as I'd stated he needed to do in the letter. I have felt very used and I have no trust right now. He's asked me repeatedly to back off for a while, I've felt like it's totally unfair. You are right though, I want to be married, so even if I feel it incredibly unfair of my H to want me to "chill" and be patient, after I've been nothing BUT patient for the last 6 months, the truth is I DO want to be married. So I will print your post and keep it where I can read it when I get frustrated. Thanks again.

Thank you BrambleRose.<P>Hopefully one day in the future, I'll be able to use what I've learned here and from people like you to have a happy infidelity-free marriage.<P>In the meantime, I'll keep learning.<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 23, 2001).]

And, it couldn't be that some of this stuff is said on here with an express intent of getting some answers without LBing our S? <P> So I make someone mad at something I percieve as not right. I would rather upset someone here by my comments, and possibly get some answers, than PO my WS. <P> Don't mean to step on any WS feelings, but then again....some of them should watch how they respond also. <P> As far as thinking a WS should take my point of view...I don't. But then again I will not let commets go by that puts all this on the BS either. I am way past that point.<P> jd<P> <P> <P> <P>

It sounds like your husband had one affair. <P>It is a drag when you forgive and they chose you... and they A again and you forgive and they chose you... and they A again and you forgive and they chose you... and they A again and you forgive and they chose you... But this time you don't chose them. <P>You know it just hurts. Sometime all we need is for someone to say "I know it hurts, I know its a drag, keep breathing" <P>I don't feel like I have chosen divorce. I feel like my husbands actions have chosen divorce. <P>So... do I want to be right - or married? I just don't want to be hurt anymore... I don't know if I am right... <BR>I am doing the best job I can with the knowledge I have. I am trying. I love my STBX, I forgive my STBX but that doesn't mean I have to stay in this unhealthy situation.

<B>schizzo</B> ~ exactly. I'm glad to have a chance to work on my marriage using the MB principles. My H told me this morning that he considers our upcoming anniversary as our 1st - because all the years before this we weren't married. I kind of disagree...but you know what? Until now, our marriage really did suck for both of us. He feels what he feels. I'm not going to argue the point. I'm happy that NOW he feels we have a marriage to work on.<P><B>Myownme</B> ~ yep, it ain't fair. But when have reality and fairness EVER really matched? Glad you could find something helpful in my rant! <P><B>Resiliant</B> ~ Well I don't know if my marriage is happy or infidelity free yet...but if it keeps going in the direction its headed now, yes that's what it will be. I'm very thankful to have a chance to make it happen. Regardless, I'm so much stronger and a BETTER person from suffering through this stuff. My H's affair may have saved us. Hard pill to swallow indeed....but truely I may not have seen how controlling, how judgemental and how selfish I was, not just to my H, but also to others around me. I was so busy being RIGHT that happiness, respect for others, love, or any other quality of life things went right out the window.<P><B>jd</B> ~ <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And, it couldn't be that some of this stuff is said on here with an express intent of getting some answers without LBing our S? <BR>So I make someone mad at something I percieve as not right. I would rather upset someone here by my comments, and possibly get some answers, than PO my WS. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Obviously it is. But you want me to share something else I learned? Oh well, I'll share anyway....take it or leave it.<P>I don't have all the answers regarding my spouse. I frankly don't understand him or his affair in any kind of clarity. ITS NOT NECESSARY to understand.<P>It's my job to accept. That's all. When I am digging for information, generally its so I can gain control.<P>When I let go, and simply accept (I don't mean agree, like, or go along with) reality - I gain peace for myself, and give my spouse the respect he needs and deserves. It's not my job to judge, punish, or hold him accountable.<P>And here's some food for thought: You know how it is that we can all tell when there has been contact by our WS's with the OP? It's pretty easy once we realize that an affair is going on, to recognize the signs of contact in our spouses. <P>Don't you think a similar type of thing happens for them, when we spend a great deal of time talking direspectfully behind their backs?<P>Venting is a good thing, don't get me wrong. But if I am spending alot of time disrespecting others in my spouse's position, because the bottom line is that I am disrespectful of my spouse...don't you think that comes out in very subtle ways?<P>I had to change how I think. THATS when the changes in me became evident to my H. It wasn't enough to come on the boards, vent about how horrible my H was, and then smile to his face.<P>Otherwise, I'm manipulating. If I am pretending respect to my H's face - its not honest or sincere. <P>I'm not perfect at it, I still make a lot of mistakes. But I am learning that I enjoy my H far more when I am not busy holding him up to my moral values, and simply accepting that he is who he is, with his own values, morals and viewpoints.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Hi <B>notheard</B> ~<P>My H has had a number of what I'd call very inappropriate relationships with other women. He has only had one blown out EA/PA. <P>I did choose to walk out. I didn't sit around waiting for him to choose me. <P>I decided what I would accept in my life. I didn't sit around waiting for him to change, hoping and demanding that he'd become who I wanted him to be. I learned to accept that he was who he was, and who he was - was someone I didn't want to be married to. I filed for divorce not once, but twice.<P>So, when he came to me and said, Wait, lets try this again (we had one previous failed recovery) I wanted to see his actions. When he demonstrated that HE was choosing to be and do something different, then I was willing to try again.<P>It wasn't about his capitulation to my demands and moral position. It was about his choosing who he wanted to be, and my choosing what I wanted and needed in my life. And we were able to come to an agreement that would make us both happy - together.<P>Letting go of him, accepting him as he was, and choosing for myself based on reality, not based on what I wanted was really the break through for both of us.<P>I sincerely doubt if he would ever consider coming back to our marriage if it meant living according to my rules.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

BrambleRose,<BR>I don't know.<BR>You talk about giving this man, your H, the respect he needs and deserves. I would find it hard to give respect to a man who completely disrespected me, hurt me, disregarded my feelings and well being, spit on our wedding vows, and tossed our marriage to the side.<BR>Respect is earned and to me that's not even close to how you earn it, that's how you loose it and rightfully so.<BR>So, would I want to be right or be married? Well, what is there to be right about? I don't think it's a matter of right and wrong, it's a matter of personal choice. Would I choice to forgive my H? Sure. Does forgiving him mean I have to respect him? NO! He has to earn that part back and that takes time.<BR>

Bramblerose,<BR>Good thread. Kinda comes down to what he and I were talking about last night...Fighting for resolution instead of being right. Makes all the sense in the world but boy, is it tough. So, we had to POJA and agree that sometimes, especially on high stress/emotional things..discuss when our emotions aren't so on the edge. For me, that means writing my part out, revising, and bringing my script with me to the table. For him, it means feeling free to speak without interruption, and for me to repeat what I think I heard (ain't always the same thing).<BR>The above sounds like a lot of work..maybe it was in the beginning, but has become so successful for us, that things that used to be pushed under the carpet and allowed to build up to volcanic proportion can be revealed in a safe environment and can actually be resolved!<BR>Just my 2 cents.<BR>T

I appreciate you sharing more. I don't know if you know my story but me and my husband divorced in 1995 he had a couple PA that I know of. Then remarried in 1997. In the last year we have separated 3 times because he is still in contact with one of the women. They call each other "love" and "babe". He admits "this time" its just a EA. But it took him 6 years to confessing a PA with this woman. <P>My STBX actions seem to be right but to me it is just external. I think he is Plan A'ing me. <P>If my husband could choose to be different... I don't know. I have filed for divorce and it seems as though it could be final sometime in September. I never said this before... but maybe I should just wait... be separated for a year or two first instead of rushing into the divorce. It hurts to bad to think of reconcilation... I can't let that thought come in. But maybe I could consider waiting to divorce. The 2 main doubts of have is<P>1) our children (ages 7 and 9). But you know I don't want to raise my kids thinking to stay in that type of marriage. H has always been "worlds greatest dad" and hopefully he will continue to be. but if not that is not my responsibility but his. <P>2) the vow I made to God. I have a strong walk with the Lord. Although during the time me and my husband are together I doubt God and he seems to bring me away from Him. God will love me either way... I know. But I am also fully aware of the lifelong consequences our decisions have.<P>

Thank you for that I guess I to really needed to hear that, You asnwered my ?. I have been feeling very depressed you really set me striaght. Thanks Sad Sally

at the risk of jynxing the thought, <P>thank you.<P>------------------<BR>in loving service<BR>chaz

This is a damn good post. Needs to go back up to the TOP.<P>Jo<P>note: excuse me for cursing.

Thanks rosie - this hits home right about now.<P>WAT

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Well this is an interesting thread. Unfortunatly I don't have time to reply again right now but will reply in detail to bramble and any others who want to get in this, later tonight or tomorrow.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>just wanted to play around with the code to figure it out <P> jd <P>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited August 23, 2001).]<P>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited August 23, 2001).]<P>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited August 23, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited August 23, 2001).]

Bramblerose,<P>What a wonderful thread. I agree completely. The most important statement my counselor made to me was "do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?"<P>By reversing the mental habit that I had to be right, I slowly started understanding my H's point of view. I slowly started understanding that we did not always have to agree. I slowly started understanding that we were two different people, and that it was not necessary that he be convinced of my point of view.<P>When I gave up the mental habit of being right, I was able to begin to really listen and learn about who my H was, not who I wanted him to be. I was able to begin to see how controlling I had been and how he must have felt about my controlling behavior. I was able to learn what was important to him, not me, and was able to begin to give him what he wanted and needed.<P>Blame is a defense mechanism to help us live with the mistakes we have made. Exploring why our marriages broke down is healthy if used to learn and improve. If used as a defense, blame is counterproductive.<P>Giving up the mental habit of blame, of being right, permits you to see things in a different way. It permits you to see things you did not see before - how your H gives in ways that are different than the way you give - but in ways that are equally important. It allows you to appreciate your H's good qualities and understand his faults. It allows you to see the "big picture", not just the difficulty of today.<P>The most difficult thing I have ever done in my life is to accept that my H had a very strong emotional tie to someone else. It was almost unbearably painful to know that he cared more for her feelings and cared more about what she thought of him than for me. She hurt him. I am now actually sorry for the part I played (only one part of the big puzzle) for the pain he felt. <P>Tomorrow will be exactly 21 days of no contact (she was an employee, and we were finally able to extricate her from our lives on August 3). We celebrated his forty-third birthday with our 3 children last night. We had dinner at a great little Italian resturant. We had a wonderful evening. Today, he said: "Please don't take this the wrong way, but for the first time in a long time, I looked at you last night and said to myself - you are a lucky man."<P>He is a lucky man, and I am a lucky woman. I have had the opportunity to look at myself in the mirror and change. I needed that change, whether we are able to save our marriage or not. I needed to face my fear of abandonment and rejection. I needed to understand the reasons for my perfectionism. I needed to understand my need for being right.<P>Because of what I have learned about myself, I am able to really love, perhaps fully for the first time, because for the first time in my life I love myself. I am also able to be a better parent, to establish boundaries between our children and stop controlling all aspects of thier lives. I have learned to set them free to be themselves, not what I want or expect them to be.<P>Don't get me wrong, the challenge is great. I am sometimes stunned by the abuse I have endured for the past 18 months. However, because I gave up the need to be right and began to understand my H, I am able to forgive both my H and myself for our mistakes, and forgiveness is an incredibly healing gift to give yourself.<P>The love I have for my H today is different and deeper than the love I had before. It is different and deeper because I made the choice to give without expectation of something in return. I believe that in order to truly love, you must truly give love, and that means being willing to set the one you love free if they want to go.<P>At each step of this journey my H knew I was fighting for our marriage. However, it was not until I gave up being right, it was not until he knew I truly wanted him to be happy, it was not until I stopped trying to control him that he saw it as a "fight", not manipulation. When he began to see it as a fight, he began to appreciate my efforts.<P>We are a long way from being recovered. However, we are on the right road now.<P>I never want to be the woman I was before. I do not want the marriage we had before. I have hope that we will achieve what Bramblerose and her husband have achieved.<P>Newwoman<P>

BrambleRose, you said you are satisfied because you are still married. Yet you also said, "I don't know if my marriage is infidelity-free ....." <P>May I ask you, what kind of marriage is that??<P>It sure isn't the kind I want.<P>Yes, I want to stay married. But I am not willing to sell my soul for it.<P><BR>

Hi Bramble,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't have all the answers regarding my spouse. I frankly don't understand him or his affair in any kind of clarity. ITS NOT NECESSARY to understand.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> I'm glad that you don't need understanding. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It's my job to accept. That's all. When I am digging for information, generally its so I can gain control.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> I can see where some people want control. However that is not, nor has it ever been what I seek. If you feel you only need to accept certian behavior from your husband, without regard to your feelings, that is a choice for you. What kind of power or rather control is he getting from you? Sounds like he has all the control. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When I let go, and simply accept (I don't mean agree, like, or go along with) reality - I gain peace for myself, and give my spouse the respect he needs and deserves. It's not my job to judge, punish, or hold him accountable.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Depends what it is. If you mean take him as he is whether or not he continues having an A then I beg to differ. NOBODY should settle for someone who continues in an A, or starts new ones.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Don't you think a similar type of thing happens for them, when we spend a great deal of time talking direspectfully behind their backs?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>At first I wanted to laugh at this satement. But I didn't.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Venting is a good thing, don't get me wrong. But if I am spending alot of time disrespecting others in my spouse's position, because the bottom line is that I am disrespectful of my spouse...don't you think that comes out in very subtle ways?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>How do you equate being disrespectiful with the position of a WS on MB as being disrespectiful of my spouse? Yes, I do not like what she did. And yes, I do take my share of the blame for what happened. But no I will not allow her or anyone else to say that I caused her to have an A. She did that. She can take responsibility for it just as I take responsibility for my faults in the marriage.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I had to change how I think. THATS when the changes in me became evident to my H. It wasn't enough to come on the boards, vent about how horrible my H was, and then smile to his face.<P>Otherwise, I'm manipulating. If I am pretending respect to my H's face - its not honest or sincere.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As has already been pointed out to you bramble, respect is something that is earned. It is not given freely. Venting is the perfect tool to use when you have a bad day and need the time to gather your thoughts in order to have a vent-less(re: LBless)conversation with our WS. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm not perfect at it, I still make a lot of mistakes. But I am learning that I enjoy my H far more when I am not busy holding him up to my moral values, and simply accepting that he is who he is, with his own values, morals and viewpoints.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> I am happy you seem to have found a road that if not smooth, at least has fewer potholes. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited August 24, 2001).]

Boy, what a bunch of replies waiting for me this morning. Good thing I made the extra large pot of coffee! <P>And just a quick sidenote, before I try to reply to everyone who replied to me...my H read what I wrote on this thread last night, and says that I am pretty accurately summing up the why's of his coming home.<P><B>shedawg</B> ~<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You talk about giving this man, your H, the respect he needs and deserves. I would find it hard to give respect to a man who completely disrespected me, hurt me, disregarded my feelings and well being, spit on our wedding vows, and tossed our marriage to the side.<BR>Respect is earned and to me that's not even close to how you earn it, that's how you loose it and rightfully so.<BR>So, would I want to be right or be married? Well, what is there to be right about? I don't think it's a matter of right and wrong, it's a matter of personal choice. Would I choice to forgive my H? Sure. Does forgiving him mean I have to respect him? NO! He has to earn that part back and that takes time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't think that you and I are really that far apart on this issue. But here's my take on it. I can disrespect an action without disrespecting the person. I hate what my H did, and yes, it ripped me to shreds. I was pregnant with our third child while he was off on vacations with his OW - vacations I'd never been taken on. That he did those things is awful. Do I respect him as a husband and a father right now? No, not really. <P>BUT. And its a big but! I am a firm believer that everyone is a member of the human race and should be treated with respect and dignity. Its not the same as respecting someone's actions. I don't respect my H's actions. Neither does he for that matter. He's pretty disgusted with his own weaknesses. I show my H respect by not trying to force him to my viewpoint, not holding him accountable to my moral stand point. He's free to chose his own path, own actions, his own life. THATS what I mean by respect for our spouses. I stepped out of the way and let him do what he was going to do. I stopped trying to convince him to do otherwise. I put the focus on me. I worked on me, and truly LET HIM GO. That's respect.<P>I personally chose to let him back into my life and to remain married, when his actions became actions that I could respect. Instead of trying to force him into being the man I wanted him to be - I accepted that he was not a man that I wanted in my life. I went for my divorce, with Steve Harley's recommendation.<P>When my H's actions changed because he choose to do so freely, not out of guilt trips or manipulation on my part, and became actions that I could respect...thats when I chose to take him back. <P><B>Twyla</B> ~ You understand my point! I posted this thread here instead of recovery, because I think that most of the people in recovery have discovered this lesson. I don't read the same kind of disrespect over there as I do here - even though the pain is very real on both boards. There's a point where you get past the reeling shock, hurt, guts ripped out emotions and you knuckle down to figure out truly what your own part in the disintegration of the marriage was. I know that I never ever wanted to be betrayed again. So even while divorcing, I spent alot of time examining myself, my actions, my motives and my behaviors - because I didn't want to carry those things to a new relationship in the future. I can't control another person, but I can control me, and I never wanted to be a responsible party to a broken marriage ever again.<P><B>notheard</B> ~<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I appreciate you sharing more. I don't know if you know my story but me and my husband divorced in 1995 he had a couple PA that I know of. Then remarried in 1997. In the last year we have separated 3 times because he is still in contact with one of the women. They call each other "love" and "babe". He admits "this time" its just a EA. But it took him 6 years to confessing a PA with this woman. <BR>My STBX actions seem to be right but to me it is just external. I think he is Plan A'ing me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>All I can do is share with you my experience. My H wanted to "try" one time before this. And it wasn't real. I went through emotional hell, almost worse than the affair itself. My H was out of contact with his OW, but I discovered that he was dating women he met through his personal ad on the net. No wonder Steve Harley wasn't getting anywhere with him! My H's actions and words were all mixed up and keeping me off balance. I was doing my part, but he was only pretending. As a result, I was a complete and utter basket case. But also, I hadn't really learned to let go, not to judge. I was trying to force him into being the repentent WS who would become the man i thought he should be.<P>So even our failed recovery was partially my fault. I didn't make him do the things he did. But I didn't contribute to making an environment that would encourage him to do his part.<P>So, I can tell you that THIS time, its different. My H does mean what he says and is doing it. And the effect on me is 180 degrees different. We are almost 2 months into recovery now, and I feel very confident. We talk, we work on each others needs. He is an open book to me. No more hiding, privacy, no nothing that would possibly upset me.<P>So all I can say is, I have learned to trust my gut. When I think that something is wrong...there probably IS something wrong. So I can understand why you are torn. I felt the same way for a long time, when my H and I were getting along, but I was divorcing him. Yeah we were getting along well, but he was also still sleeping with his OW. (He went back to her when I served him divorce papers.) I am glad I stuck to my guns though, because finally he did choose to do what he needed to do for me.<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>