Bump, please...

Libbie;
Don't take it so hard. Eventually you may be Right AND Married. But right now, during the aftermath of DDay, Plan A, B, etc. the best you can do is be patient with the WS. As time passes, you begin to heal, the WS gets un-fogged, and you enter Recovery, things will begin to change. At some point the WS will probably realize those things, and thank you for them. Just not right away, or right now.

Thanks, Spacecase. How are you holding up? What do your kids think of all this?

One more try for a response from BR... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Up you go!

^

Thanks for bumping this! Great info!

I do sometimes feel that I just want him to admit he has done something wrong. Yes, he's sorry he hurt me, but he says he has no guilt. I dont' understand this, but your right, I can't force my opinion on him.

My H has said he wants out, so things are not looking good here although I'm not giving up yet.

Sometimes I wonder if it's because there is a OW and I feel the competition over my H and just want to win.

I just passed my 2 year recovery anniversary this summer. I guess its a sign of just how well we have recovered...because I didn't notice that our "recovery" anniversary (June 28) had passed. We also just passed our 2 year moving back in together anniversary last week.

I've read over some of my old threads...and resurrected them for the newcomers here, with the hope that they might find something useful in them.

My husband and I still have our issues...geez...we have a whole magazine rack of them! But we have worked through the infidelity thing pretty darn well and we've put some pretty good habits into our marriage.

Thank you Steve Harley, for all the lessons I learned - my marriage is whole and my family intact!

BR-

What a testimony for ALL BS's to follow after.

Although I am the WS and dv'd as of 7/22/03, your position is very solid and valid...keep in mind I have lost my marriage so my return home date never occurred.

It is refreshing and nearly "Ivory Tower" yet practical for "letting go unconditionally" does indeed show great respect for your H, as my ex showed tremendous respect of me for letting me go so to work on herself and allow me to pursue what was "right' for me.

Without going into great detail of my transgressions, suffice to say we are dv'd for ample reasons...My ways did not reflect, even remotely, a desire to be married and so my pursuit to be "right" manifested in dv. Conversely, my ex chose to be "right" based on my actions. I do beleive with my whole heart that she was "RIGHT" ALL along!

Thank you for sharing!

Blessings,
<><

Thanks for the link, BR.

I don't know much of your situation. In your original post from 01, you said that you didn't think your husband felt he had done something truly awful. At the beginning of recovery, I think that this is common.

Do you think that he has changed his views about that over time?

Hi sdguy ~ yes, I would say that my husband recognizes the significance of what he did to me. His affair started in late 1999, recovery started Aug 2001. So, we have over 5 years of recovery now, and absolutely no infidelity. For probably the first three years of our recovery, he made numerous heart felt apologies, sometimes when he thought I was asleep.

The need to be right, the need to control are the things that destroy marriages...

Thanks.

I see a leap of faith in my future if I'm still interested when my WW wakes up. I know that I won't see the remorse right off the bat, when I'm making the decision whether to take her back or not. At the same time, I know that I will at least want to see it at some point so that I don't feel like the second choice forever. I'm not willing to live like that.

I know that only she can come to that realization, though. I know that I can't extract it from her and wouldn't try.

Aaah you see SD ~ what I learned was that I didn't need to worry about what my husband felt, and simply worried about what he did. I could not, and still can not, get into his head and know what he thinks and feels. What I can know and trust is what I see him do.

Letting go of the need for my spouse to feel what I think he should was the turning point in my own personal recovery.

Just answering the Q without reading the whole thread.

I want to be right. I definitely don't want to be happy if I have to be WRONG to do it or married for that matter.

Tricky part IS...right about *what*?

See this is one of those platitudes that is in my opinion misused because I THINK it is really aimed at controlling behavior in which a person needs someone else to AGREE with them...and will just keep browbeating away until they get compliance totally disregarding that other persons own opinions and independent existence as a whole in their quest to conquer and dominate.

In which case I'd really just say hey that's kind of controlling and a LB.

If control is the issue then that's probably where I would aim...if agressive behavior is...or disrespectfull, well most people have a whole bag of tricks including...

I've seen it used to rationalise and inject nobility into accepting unacceptable behavior in everyone from spouses to children [replace married with happy] and never once have I thought it was a good solution...sort of skips over some relevent issues imo.

So in short...I want to be right...and if I am in err I want to be challenged rather than be pacified and dismissed.

There is a lot of space between blind acceptance and gracious disagreement.

It's all in the spirit and attitude.

Noodle - the need to be right usually involves the need for someone else to change so I can be happy.

It places my power in the hands of someone else other than myself.

The need to be right means that I require others to think and feel as I think is correct.

It is not a platitude but rather something that strikes directly at the cause of controlling behavior.

I agree..the devil is in the details in my opinion.

Now admittedly this is one of those bits of folk wisdom that I just happen to think is off the mark..but by an inch not a mile..problem is I see people go miles not inches using it.

I want to be right...I want to have peace with my choices EVEN IF I have to be unhappy circumstantially or lose my marriage as a result.

That isn't about being controlling to anyone but me...being authentic. Letting my yes be yes and my no be no.

Choosing otherwise does put my happiness in the hands of others because I now NEED them to make me happy...I have no peace...I will be resentfull if things go badly because I didn't agree with the decision in the first place.

I can see that some people do get caught in circular arguaments and browbeat sessions...and I agree that is controlling behavior...but when I see that behavior I would be very nervous about giving such a superficial blanket response to a person who clearly has in depth personal relation and boundary issues.

PS...

I think these are often unrecognised POJA issues...in which neither spouse is required to just give up and accept choices they don't like for exactly the reason of avoiding the situation I described.

With a WS there is no poja obviously...they recognise no authority but what CAN be enforced.

So that's where I generally aim..find out what is YOURS to control and chest bump them out of there.

Trying to control what doesn't belong to you is futile and puts you in a weak defensive stance.

My two cents worth on some things I’ve picked up from this thread. I don’t mind at all if anyone disagrees with me.

Item: Telling a wayward spouse to leave after that spouse commits adultery is little different from telling that spouse “they must change in order to make me happy.” With respect, there’s a difference there without any distinction. Don't misunderstand me. I believe it's the betrayed spouse's God-given right to make the demand.

Item: I don't think telling a wayward one what she or he is doing is categorically wrong and the betrayed spouse won't accept the inappropriate behavior is a DJ at all. It's more correctly viewed as setting a boundary of conduct beyond which the betrayed spouse will not budge. If that seems "controlling" to the wayward spouse, that's unfortunate. The wayward one is free to continue the behavior or reestablish himself or herself as a person of honor or high integrity. Faithfulness and adherence to one’s marital vows is not a matter for POJA.

Item: As for being “right,” well…I like working from a high moral plane, myself. To go back to the question posed initially in this thread, yeah, a betrayed spouse can choke back their indignation and anger for a while. However, anger is a necessary component of the grieving process, is it not? (I don’t think many will disagree that an infidelity announces the death of the innocence, if nothing else, in a marriage.) If you skip the anger, does one actually recover? Also, if the only goal is to remain married, without making the quality of that marriage a primary issue, how does one maintain one’s self-respect?

Frankly, at what point does betraying one’s own standards in favor of "not making DJ's" become contraindicated, and counterproductive? At what point does one say, “Enough, I will not allow any more humiliation (for instance).” Where is the line beyond which one takes a chance of losing one’s self...one’s identity...trying to bend to the wayward spouse’s feelings, (often unreasonable) demands, and his or her insistence it was only a mistake?

As I said, just my thoughts on some things I saw here. Since my opinions are provided without charge, one may consider them to have exactly the same value they cost.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey noodle ~ I think you and I agree with the concept at least, and it's just semantics that we are differing on.

Being at peace with my choices, living my life authentically - is not really what I mean by RIGHT. Because I am the only one involved, there is no need to be RIGHT, it is just what is GOOD for me.

Live and let live. It means I mind my own business and let other people decide what is right for themselves.

It means that I do not attempt to impose MY choices on other people, including my spouse. When I let go of the need to be right, it does not mean that I give away my power and let others make choices about what is good for me. Boundaries are not about being RIGHT. Boundaries are about what is good for me and have nothing to do with being RIGHT.

That some people may choose to take this arguement and twist it to justify living with abuse is not a reason to avoid saying it. These individuals are going to find ANYTHING to justify what they are choosing. Eventually, as people grow, they say Ah HAH!

I know it took me a long time to get it, but when I did, I truely had a real spiritual awakening.

Longhorn ~


What is diffent about it? It is a selfish demand: Change yourself (stop cheating) to make me happy!

Am I advocating that a BS just suck it up? Heck no!

But there is a big difference between: "You must change to suit me" and "You have changed and no longer suit me".

Demand: You must be faithful.
Boundary: I will only accept a faithful partner in my life.

The first demands my spouse to take action.
The second is simply about what kind of person I will allow in my life and requires ME to take action.


Boundaries are set on self, not on others. Anything else is a selfish demand.

I have a boundary. I will not remain married to an unfaithful spouse. Period. I do not demand that my spouse remain faithful. It is just absolutely simple. I will protect myself from an unfaithful spouse. He can do whatever he wants, and I will do what I need to do. There is no forcing, no requiring.


Yes, well my high moral plane got me nearly divorced.

When I stopped imposing MY oh so wise and wonderful point of view on my husband as the-way-things-are-and-everything-else-is-wrong and RESPECTED his God-given free will to choose his own path in life, everything changed.

Instead of treating him as a misguided child who needed to be set straight, I started treating him like a man. (Which included no longer protecting him from consequences of his freely made choices).


I am not suggesting that a BS choke back anger and grief. Working through the feelings of betrayal is part of recovery. So is letting go of being right.


Respect for self and for others go hand in hand.


Absolutely NEVER have I suggested that one betray one's self. Never never never. Letting go of the need to impose your will on others DOES NOT mean letting others impose theirs on you! It is the difference between boundaries (self protection) and disrespectful judgements and selfish demands (control).


That's called "time for Plan B". You remove yourself from the hurtful behavior, you don't force your spouse to change.


This is only a question if you (incorrectly) assume that if you stop being right, the other person WINS. You are stilling seeing this as a fight, an argument where there is a winner and loser. When I say let go of the need to be RIGHT, I am not saying SURRENDER!