Hi all,<BR>Was on someone else's thread and talking about..what else..relationship talks...you know..the old "honey, we need to talk" kind.<BR>Reviewed some of my old posts pleading for info on how to get a reluctant partner to talk about us...remember, I have a lovely man who is "too tired, too busy, too whatever" to read a book, see a MC, and , at that time, extremely reluctant to "have a talk". This was all in April, when after a few false starts, recovery commenced.<P>I read a book..sorry can't remember which one..there have been hundreds.. but the major point I remember was the author's take on why A's happen...simple version..WS is lonely. Over the years, and for whatever reason, partners grow apart. They quit being friends. (this is where Harley's EN, LB stuff kicks in)<BR>Anyway, I also remembered good old Granny counselling my aunt during marital strife when my uncle wouldn't open up.<BR>"Honey, she would say,"Would you rather have a relationship discussion or a relationship?"<P>Well, this advice served me well as I quit trying to push that mule to water about 3-4 months ago. Instead, I opted for going for a great relationship. Harley's rule of 15 hours of together time is no joke..the deal, is that it has to be good times for him..recreation, becoming friends again, and putting all the relationship stuff out of the way for a while. Just don't LB, pick some activities he's interested in, and generally just be a good playmate.<P>Why would he confide in me if he didn't trust me? Plan A started the trust. Personally living by MB rules..no LB being the biggest, set the tone for the relationship. Playing together reestablishes friendship.<P>OK..enough preamble..you get the picture...the news is that this weekend a few miracles have happened. First, his daughter came to visit. She's having some relationship problems and he asked me to help get her some information. I was completely floored! So, I brought out the LB questionnaire,(he had never seen that one), EN questionnaire ( he laughed when he saw that one..had seen it early on and filled it out without much thought..after hours of me pleading..now he wants to redo it, "for real this time") and the recreational time (the only one he ever really liked).<P>Well anyway, he asked for basic information to share with her and I gave him the streamlined version and the LB book to give her. He never got around to giving it to her..BECAUSE HE"S READING IT HIMSELF!" I kind of laughed and said, "I thought you weren't interested." He replied,"well, something has changed you..maybe it's time I change too." And then I got the look, the one I haven't seen in years and he said "I really like you."<P>The second miracle happened on the driving range (yup, his most favorite thing in the world...golf is saving us, I swear!) We were getting ready to go practice putting, when he said, "we can't go over there." He went on to explain that OW was in the clubhouse, he had heard her voice when we first came up and didn't know what to say or do...he opted for honesty. He said he didn't want me to be embarrassed or hurt, but I had to know she was there, and he guessed now was the time for us to practice PUBA (he meant POJA, but couldn't remember the right acronym LOL)<BR>Anyway, I was so impressed by his honesty and willingness to do right by me I told him that, quite frankly, I was ready to make love to him on the putting green but I would do whatever he felt most comfortable with. Well, after the most passionate embrace ever witnessed at a driving range, he said, let's go putt..we're in this together.<P>Don't know whether she left or stayed, do know she paged him later a couple times..both times we "PUBA'd", and decided no contact was the best option. If she continued he would call her in my presence.<P>So the purpose of this long thread is to give some hope if you're dealing with a reluctant spouse..work on yourself first, work on a good relationship second, then the other stuff will come. Time and patience, venting here not there, and being the friend your partner always wanted..the relationship talks will come later and in the strangest places, but they will come.<P>Hang in there folks<BR>(no I'm not up in the middle of the night..it's the timechange)<BR>T<P>

twyla,<P>Horray for you! It's nice to her something good for a change. Keeps the rest of us going. I think the steps in the process you pointed out are good and your granny's advice is right on the mark. <P>I've made the necessary changes in my behavior (although I'm still working on "control"), and very, very few LB's. I never initiate any talks about us, OM or A. Now I think we need to start spending some time together just as friends. <BR>I'm not sure W is ready for that, but maybe we can start to do things as a family and see where that goes. Thanks for the encouraging update.<P>sad dad<BR>

OUTSTANDING Twyla, congrats to you and Hubby. <P> jd

Congratulations Twyla. It's wonderful to read such good news. Keep posting it.<P>Just wondering, did your WS have to leave first before arriving to the conclusion of wanting to recover?

I can't tell you how much I needed to read this one! I've been trying to get H to open up (almost daily) since he came home 7 weeks ago. I'm figuring out (finally) that all I'm doing is pushing him further away. I've spent the last 3-4 days just not bringing things up. It's nice to see that not talking about things at first really works. The only glitch I see is that my H is still reluctant to do things with me. He really just wants to sit and watch TV every night. I've been trying to ask him to do things on the weekends (we have a small fishing boat, which he HAD to have 2 years ago, and we've had it out 1 time this summer). We also like to golf (neither of us knows what we're doing, but we have fun at it), and I've asked him to go, but he always has an excuse not to. I'll just keep "chilling" and hope that soon he'll want to do some of these things with me.

Thanks, Twyla, now I'm all teary-eyed. AT WORK!<P>Your Granny quote is perfect -- I think you've mentioned it before. I'm taking it to heart this time.<P>Our relationship is A LOT better, but I keep thinking we're doing something wrong because we haven't had many "relationship talks". <P>I love this, it's impossible to hear too much good news.<P>--Jeffers

Thanks for the responses.<BR>Sad Dad-I think doing things as a family is a great place to start...as far as not initiating relationship conversations..don't turn one down if offered, or something comes up along the way..but remember to LISTEN..really listen and don't LB..even if what she is saying hurts..you can tell her..yup, the truth does hurt, but we need to be truthful, and return the favor.<P>Terrified, yes, I went into Plan B after a couple months of plan A..lasted about a week, then I modified it and would see him occasionally. The gist of the post was really for those of us that started recovery with partner that agreed to no contact, but little else..no MC, no MB questionnaires and stuff..there is a huge section of posters (esp in recovery) who are trying to recover for two.<P>MyOwnMe- start small..he likes TV..how about a trip to Blockbusters for comedies..nothing like laughing together. Beats crying alone (God, now I sound like Granny..it's got to be genetic!) Then maybe out for dinner and a movie. It is the little stuff that adds up.<P>Jeffers- we cry at work all the time..especially on payday! Seriously, thanks for the response. And you too, Jdmac1.<BR>T

PUBA'd. IFOTFLMAO. Puba'd sounds like what you almost did on the putting green. Maybe that's what all of us need--the chance to PUBA with our spouses right in front of the OP. God help my H if he ever PUBAs with someone else again.<P>Great advice, Twyla.<P>Mrs. Job