Last night My ws was over we began a long conversation about us . I had to get sme idea of were it is all headed .<BR>her answer was I really cant say right now , which has become the answer of choice lately. we started to go over <BR>some of the things that put us in this position And after that she said to me that I always have a different answer <BR>to the problems . She also proceeded to tell me that there is much much more that bothers here but she wont bring them out because she doesnt want to hurt me . I suggested we can go to counceler He can see her side , my side and put us together possibly . She frowned . This morning she came over for coffee before work .I asked obout councler again I said we have passed the help of lovers and freinds we need to seek prof. help. She shook her head yes and walked away .Now if she handels this like she has done before she will forget it and not say anything more about it . I believe I should give her until Oct 1st And go to a plan B we Both need help I am seeing a councler now I offered his services for her side , Ill pay for it . <BR>My side of it is that if this has no potential of going anywhere lets shut it down . Ive tryed It just didnt work .<BR>She said that being driven like I am I want to see results . I say that just give me a sign and ill ajust my drive . Any comments or suggestions greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure how long you've been going through this, but the best advice that someone gave me was "don't make any hasty, emotional decisions." Will it hurt you at all if you don't file for D? Absolutely not. I don't really know your story, but I can see the WS's confusion as we've all seen that from ours. My H is back home, but still very confused. Is your W still having A? That makes the confusion all the more intense. I'm hanging in here even feeling like crap most days because I love my H. I waiver back and forth based on my emotions, and what I'm learning is not to share it all with him. I have counseling on my own and we see the same person together. This is such a long hard haul from what I've read of others' recovery. I have moments every day when I doubt my decision to stick by him. I still don't know if he even loves me anymore, but it's not something I can control. All I can do is be the best person I can be. If my marriage ends, I'll still be the best person I can be. Not much help, but wanted you to know I care...

tanks Myownme<BR>Yes she is still kneedeep in the A. And She says she loves me only after I said I love her . She has not maid any attempt to have kids over to her appartment to stay overnight . At times I believe I am to open with her , I tell her alot of what I discovered through counceling. My thinking is that she sees im trying to change or at least find out about my self > I too have doubt on a regular basis if im doing the right thing . But when I see her <BR>I loose all doubt . I am trying to be a fair person , but really in the end when the settles and this goes to divorce who really cares .Hasty is what I have been after getting more info from the confusion drives me up the wall . all I can say is im trying.

today I started out optomistic , ws (wife) had good conversation last night talked about how she is realizing how manypeople she hurt by her A, there was a few tears shed by both of us . It looked to me that possibly she is starting to wake up. may be im being a bit optomistic<BR>This am. when the kids school bus went buy her apartment her car was gone both kids ticked that she wasnt at home they are old enough to know where she was, Daughter pissed off. I know her thinking that she has nothing she has to hide. But damn dont you think you would so the kids wouldnt see it ? and then she wonders why kids are getting a bad opinion of her . I hope that there is something left for her as far as love and understanding goes when she wakes up and climbs out of this hole she has dug forherself. Optomistic at first venting in the end <BR>Is there any one out there that can suggest something I can say to the kids besides get usetoit.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colfax Bear:<BR><B>It looked to me that possibly she is starting to wake up. may be im being a bit optomistic<P>Is there any one out there that can suggest something I can say to the kids besides get usetoit.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Colfax,<BR> As far as your WW, it MAY be that she is starting to wake up a little bit. BUT, you should "expect nothing" - that way you won't be disappointed and hurt when that is what you get! I've had to learn this, and it helps.<P>As far as the kids, you say they are "old enough to know where she was" - I assume they are old enough to speak to her about her behavior if it bothers them. In fact, when they come to YOU for answers, I would be as vague as you can, explaining to them that you "don't know" either what she is planning, and suggest that they ask her for themselves. Then, lovingly, explain to them that she is "in a bad place now" and must still sort things out in her own head, and no one can really help her do that. Also, you don't know why she is there, or acting like this (all true!!) and if they really want to know these things, she is the only one they can ask, as you are just as confused as they are!<P>Make sure, though, that they know YOU are there for them, and their stability is not going to go away, just because Mom has "lost her mind" for awhile.....that may be bothering them somewhat, and I'd hate to think that they are going to begin to act out because of their own confusion and frustration over not knowing where their lives are heading.....make SURE they know their worlds are still safe.<P>Good luck. This type of wreckage is devastating for all. I can't even IMAGINE going through this with children living at home.<P>Lupo<BR>

Ah Lupo Its good to hear from you .<BR> As far as the kids asking questions of her were abouts whoes she with , they do and I encourage it . But you know that means conflict and sends her running . She says that they sound like me when they ask questions . Well no da we all have pretty much the same questions .<BR> I tell my kids every am. not to take any crap from anybody and to remember that I am always here. They trust that. As far as devistation . I cant believe that a mother would act this way towards here children, Im sorry but turning your back on your children is unexcusable (did I spell it right?)<BR> Years ago a freind of mine told me if you are going to have a affair that you make sure its exactly what you want and it better be good because you stand to loose everything . But he forgot 1 important part, all that are involved loose everything .

Another morning gone buy , wife said that she does not want to come back for all the wrong reasons . and she is being pressured by folks on the out side to do the right thing . She says she is being controlled by those people even now ( mon and dad) She says we need to sit down and talk but she is not ready to do that . I suspect that she is waiting to see where her relationship w/om goes before she makes a desicion. My feelings , dont wait to long before you have lost your family.

Answer me this folks , why is it my ws will not say I love you, I care for you , I miss you unless I say it ?

Colfax Bear,<P>The answer to that question is simple. She doesn't say it because she doesn't love you or care for you right now. And even if a little love or care existed she doesn't want to give you false hope.<P>Bottom, line is she doesn't feel like it now. She had to bury all of her love and care for you in order to have the affair, otherwise the guilt would overcome her too bad. This all pretty normal.<P>Hang in there.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL So what you are saying is the ws has buried it enough so they can face a divorce? Buried or just fell out of love ? So us BS have a lot of digging to do .

Just Venting<BR> wife was over tonight had about 3 min of conversation.<BR>the other 3 hours she spent with kids its like I wasnt even here. I faxed her today about how I felt about her . she never faxed back . she said tonight that she was to busy to fax. Its like I dont even exsist.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colfax Bear:<BR><B>she said tonight that she was to busy to fax. Its like I dont even exsist. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Don't worry about it. It IS like "We don't exist." Just let it go....don't smother her.<P>She really does have to come to these conclusions on her own. It sounds from an earlier post that she is getting pressure from other sources to "do the right thing" and come home. I think you should just try to do things with/for your children, and give her space....<P><B>why is it my ws will not say I love you, I care for you , I miss you unless I say it ?</B><P>You have gotten the answer to this also, but I will add my .02 She is confused. She doesn't really know how she feels right now. Don't take that as a "I DON"T love you, care for you, etc." She honestly doesn't know! She feels something for OM, she feels something for you....it's all jumbled up. The LAST thing you want to do is push her further away from you by pushing too hard. That's why the advice to give her space is important.<P>We did nothing to get them into this mess.....we can really do nothing to get them OUT. Other than "be there" and show them that we are willing to work with them on ourselves, what was wrong in our marriages, etc. to try to fix things, WHEN THEY ARE READY. And they WILL come around. Just be patient. Easier said than done, I know. <BR>In the meantime, READ, study, become a better father, a better man for her for the future.<P>God Bless,<BR>Lupo

Giving space is very hard to do . I have this urge to be <BR>there with what ever I have left . <BR> Thanks Lupo , Thanks to all the people who have given support or advise It does make a difference .I get caught up in this and at times I know I have made the wrong move, Thats when I come here . Is great to talk to people who are on the same field as I am .<BR>Thanks again and my prayers are with you.

colfax, I am probably not the person to talk to right now, since I am currently in a big funk about why be (or stay) married in the first place, and deeply resent what I feel is a societal pressure to keep people married just cause they are, and who cares if one spouse is unhappy. But since I can probably (cause of that) help a bit with how your ws feels, I will offer comment for whatever it is worth.<P>I am in no contact (about 3 weeks) after a ea/pa with someone I care a great deal about...but I am trying to do the "right" (strangled noise) thing. My issue is not about choosing the ow, as many (including my wife) seek to make it....it is about whether I want to be married to her at all. And yes I care about her (28yr/23 married 4 kids 15-22), and I have history and she is not an evil person, but is it a passionate, in-love marriage.... no, never was. Now people are pressuring me (much as your wife is feeling) to do the right thing....but ya know, the ws figures out pretty quick the right thing is only about what others want, nobody gives 2 hoots about what we want. Being more or less normal citizens, we understand our "transgression" daring to love another while married, makes us scum, and forfeits all rights to consideration of what we want (unless it is our marriage of course). But we are human, and we fight for ourselves, we finally decide we count too, and everyone else is just gonna have to deal with that, so we resist so-called reconcilliation while we try to see what we want, and part of that is whether we have the courage, the guts, to actually leave the marriage and suffer the negative opinions about us. Or whether we are just gonna cave in and do what everyone else demands, hoping our spouses were scared enough they will make kife a little more bearable, but not really believeing it. That is why we are hyper-sensitive to anything that feels like control, and why all these folks are telling you to go easy, if we are gonna come back, you have a much better chance focusing on you, and letting us alone. Re ultimatum type stuff, can work, may not, oftentimes we hope you will give us an ultimatum, so we can just say fine, and divorce you. If it seems like we don't "care" it is cause we don't, we are in survival mode, and we really have no energy left to worry about you, or even sometimes the kids (although I think that is related to knowing the bs is a good parent. We figure if we are no good to ourselves married to you, then we are no good for the kids either, maybe they are better off with out us. This is a serious business colfax, do not patronize or coerce your w unless you are ready to see her leave permanently. Your only option (besides setting reasonable boundaries) is to woo her back just like you were dating her, so pretend you are a single divorce man, and this woman has caught your eye, convince her you are marriage material. Good luck.

Sad n Lonely,<BR>SMACK. right between the eyes It is good to hear from the other side. Your input is well taken thank you.

Just a update<BR> Wife was over lastnight said she was scum , she cant believe how many people she has hurt over this A. We talked alittle about councel, Still nothing positive on her side . <BR>Im begining to feel enough! I started to rite my Plan B letter.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Wife was over lastnight said she was scum , she cant believe how many people she has hurt over this A. We talked alittle about councel, Still nothing positive on her side . <BR>Im begining to feel enough! I started to rite my Plan B letter. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey, Colfax,<BR>I disagree "still nothing positive on her side..."<P>I think her saying "she is scum" is definitely lifting of the fog.....<P>Hang in there, bro. I think I see some clearing skies ahead!! She's "waking up" and NOT liking what she sees....<BR>This can only lead to positive changes....just don't push yet. Let her stew, but "be there" for her, a safe haven in stormy seas ahead.<P>Good luck! <BR>Lupo<BR>

Lupolady<BR> How can this be ? this am I read your post also my horoscope says to be patient as far as family and relationship go . Do you have a inside track? Patience is hard I have a tendency to want change and I want it now when Im doing a lot of work on it , that is my nature . I will kepp trying to be patient . Can I call on you to guide me? You have done much as far as guidence and support . At times I cant make much sense of it all and I end up making huge mistakes . Kind of like 2 steps forward 4 back . Its not that I am mentally challanged , I am so confused with all of this , so many things coming at me at once. <BR> Thanks again for your help.

My wife just faxed she is sad and depressed, she wishes she could crawl in a hole and die , should I let her stew on it or should I offer some comfort. Any suggestions?

Colfax Bear,<P>Call you W tell her to come over and comfort her. Don't talk about the marriage, the affair, nothing. Just listen to her, hold her, and comfort her. Treat her like you would any good friend in serious pain. She is in pain and you are her friend aren't you???<P>CB, before the marriage can be restored you must become her friend again. You have a chance to do so. Give her what she needs and do it because she needs it, not because you expect something back. You won't get it, not now maybe later.<P>CB, you have a deadline in your mind. In the meantime just focus on being her friend. Do little talking, just listen to her, really listen to her. Be her friend. This is what Plan A is about.<P>Hang in there and God Bless,<P>JL