I posted in my "H slipped up" that in the middle of our "snuggle" , H asked if I had 'done' this with anyone this weekend...he asked a couple of times...<P>I giggled...and giggled...and replied, "only in my dreams." (and, of course, my dream was him, but I didn't tell him that).<P>I have mentioned to H that this whole thing has got me thinking about what it would be like to be with someone else...and, daybreak, he is very aware that it would be revenge...so to speak...<P>I have no intention to do so...(but we all know about intentions...and the road with which they are paved...)REGARDLESS, I am not sure I want to let him off the hook...<P>Daybreak suggest that I let him know right away that I won't do this...I'm not so inclined...I think he should dangle...that he should wonder...<P>Call me selfish...whatever...his little show of 'jealousy' is just what the dr. ordered....<P>What to ya'll think? (Which one of my agreements am I breaking?)<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

I don't have an answer for you but I've often wondered about using jealousy with these guys. I think my WH is genuinely worried that I will find someone else but I haven't really given him any reason to worry.<P>I wouldn't comment further with your H unless he becomes really worried. Then I would reassure him.

Hi Cali,<P> I haven't replied to many of your threads, if any, but have read most of them. Hi.<P> Just wanted to say that I agree with MAEZY. Those good feelings you are recieving from H could turn to something bad for the M. Jealousy is a relationship killer. See it doesn't matter what the truth is, it only matters what the OS believes is truth. If he believes you have/are sleeping with someone else, it could be the straw that breaks the camels back.<P> I am thrilled at the latest development with Mister "Quest" ie; your other thread. Don't blow it.<P> jd

Do I want to 'feel good' or be married, eh?<P>I guess it wouldn't be very 'impeccable' of me...nor would I be doing my best...<P>I just got such a kick out him asking...I kept thinking WHERE would he get such an idea??? ME...sleep with a 'stranger?'<P>We have parenting class tomorrow...and we are going out on Saturday night, if we can get a sitter...so somehow I'll work it in that 'although thoughts of being with someone else do cross my mind...that is all they are...I have no plan, nor intention of following through..."<P>I must remain true to myself...be impeccable in my word and do my best...and having sex outside my marriage would not be 'best.'<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Sure, it could go the other way also. If he thinks you are moving on without him it might just cause him to run back into your arms full bore. Are the chances worth it? Well, maybe. I know that feeling I get when something totally unexpected comes from my W. I feel the same as you felt. All warm inside. Like you've waited an eternity for just that one thing.<P> I don't know. And I wasn't meaning to put a damper on how you felt about it. I am very happy you are starting to get some good things for a change <P> Having sex outside the marriage does have strong appeal doesn't it? But most of us BS couldn't do it huh? Too much pain in our lives as it is. Wouldn't enjoy it anyways.<P> jd<BR>

hmmm...<BR>I just came upstairs to go to bed and was rearranging the books, etc. on my bedside table...H had cleaned up in my absence this weekend and I was looking for somethings...<P>Out of one of my books feel a poem that I wrote earlier this summer...I don't recall putting it in that particular book...makes me think H found and read poem and THIS is why he is having the thoughts he is having...<P>An Urge To Be Wild<P>You started to stray and<BR>My world was blown away,<BR>My innocence lost and <BR>I had an urge to be wild.<P>My heart started beating,<BR>My temperature was rising,<BR>I wanted to feel that heat of<BR>Skin touching skin,<BR>Drowning in a kiss...<BR> Would he be exotic?<BR> Wouldn't it feel erotic<BR> If he wasn't you?<P>With every hurtful word you said,<BR>With every teardrop I shed, <BR>My resolve was getting stronger and,<BR>I was having an urge to be wild.<P>My heart starts a beating,<BR>My temperatures rising, <BR>I need to feel that heat<BR>Of skin touching skin...<BR>Drowning in a kiss.<BR> Would he be erotic,<BR> Wouldn't it feel erotic,<BR> If he wasn't you?<P>I'm tired of the crying,<BR>I'm done with you lying,<BR>I long to be held closely,<BR>I'm having an urge to be wild...<P>My heart's just a'beating,<BR>My temperature's rising,<BR>I'm feeling that heat of<BR>Skin touching skin,<BR>Drowning in a kiss...<BR> Would he be exotic?<BR> Would it feel erotic<BR> If he wasn't you?<P><BR>Cali

WOW Cali, You BAAAAD girl. <P> I love the poem. And I could see where he would come up with the question after having read it. LOL, I hope it scared the crap out of him. At the very least something has given him the thought. Now what?<P> jd<P><BR>

Yawn...I fell asleep for a couple hours on the couch, and now I am going to bed, will address others tomorrowe, but this is a short one for you marsha.<P>Daybreak is correct, and radical honesty requires, you tell him the truth. Further using jealousy on a ws, especially this kind is far more than a huge LB (manipulative), it strikes to the core of the marriage. Thinker did something similar.She was pretty distraught in the beginning (after d), and I was not responding well. Very cold, and her emotional manipulations (woe is me, or guilting me) were resulting in much hatefulness from me. At one point she had me convinced (almost) that she was distraught enough over her forced celibacy (and my lack of husbandly treatment) that she was going to seek the services of a male prostitute, she knew was crazy, but didn't care anymore. I didn't become jealous exactly, but I became very distraught myself, figuring was this worth it, watching my wife destroy herself, maybe I should just give in, do what she wants/needs. So I did, sorta, but I made a condition, I wanted the phone number, and address, and means by which my Christian, middleclass, innocent wife fell into the clutches of such people....I intended to call the police. She refused, createing elaborate lies about why she could not quite remember, and how she threw away the paper (down the toilet no less) with the number....eventually I came to realize it was all a big manipulative lie, designed specifically for me (it was the only thing that finally got a caring response). I was furious, manipulated, lied too, used, no concern for my feelings of fear etc......Kinda probably how many of you bs's feel I suspect...sigh.... Anyways to make a long story short, I came as close as I ever have to hating her, and it took me awhile to forgive her. At the time it solidified my determination to divorce this crazy woman.<P>Jealousy etc. is not a good emotion, and using it deliberately for a positive outcome is extremely risky, and problematic. If it arises naturally, out of a the simple realities of estrangement, seperation, and such, will work it's own positive effect on ws, but to do it deliberately....whewee, even in the slightest ways, is playing with serious fire. Is one thing to be naturally lovingly jealous and possessive, is quite another to deliberately make spouse feel uneasy. This carries over into normal times too, where one spouse will do and say things to make you jealous, then ask if it did so. I have done something similar on occassion, I suspect we all have, but I have come to believe such interactions are unhealthy, damaging, and idicators of fundamental individual and/or couple problems. Think about it, what good purpose can ever be served by making your spouse fearful of losing you, does anyone want a relationship based on such possession fears?

Well, it's 5:30am Pacific Time, so if you haven't told him by now, he's been one danglin' dude!!!!!! HA! HA! HA! Oh well...<P>The reason why he asked? Projection... (You don't look underneath the bed unless you have hidden there before yourself!) But seriously, who knows? Maybe he can't imagine you with anyone else and he got a glimse of the possibility and didn't like it. Hmmm... just a guess?

I have to go to work SnL...no time for a long answer ...<P>but the short version is...just like your A...this WAS NOT planned...I wrote the poem out of pain and some HONEST thoughts that I was having...<P>and, yes, I have shared these thoughts with my H...not out of a desire to have him be jealous...but so that he would know ME...<P>remember...radically honest...I would be lying, and so would many BS's if they said the thought didn't cross their mind...<P>Now, I haven't got all dramatic about it...no threats...but it IS there...and earlier this summer I WAS SEVERELY TEMPTED...<P>I am in a different place now...but the thought remains....<P>Now as for him...and this poem and his thoughts....THAT'S ON HIM...except for ONE comment about being curious what it would be like to be with someone else...THAT'S ALL I'VE DONE...<P>I may ask him if he found the poem...and FYI...as I started writing it...I had in the back of my mind that it might make good lyrics for a song...my H's brother's girlfriend is a singer/songwriter and I thought I might share it with her...<P>Cali<BR>

I have no problem with the poem itself, that is an entirely different animal. I was referring more or less to your comments re jealousy itself, and/or making a spouse jealous on purpose. Otherwise I am a strong proponent of radical honesty. My wife has shared her thoughts about contemplating her own affair, what it would be like, the desire to have all the secrecy, late night calls, blah blah, and that she would be far better at it than her doofus husband who left evidence all over the place. (she even found a card to ow laying in the driveway, just to name one incident). This stuff is only being honest, and I am ok with it....the other story was about taking action (or implying she was), and was designed to manipulate me on a very basic level....it was a bad bad choice.<P>btw I wrote a poem once too, about 2 years ago, when I stumbled onto a poetry board, and decided to play, the topic at the time was violence.....here it is, what do you HONESTLY think<P>Cold, so cold. Will I ever be warm again. <BR>I've been cold so long, why?<BR>What did I do, what did I do, why, why me?<BR>I used to be warm, and happy, and safe.<BR>Then the bad thing happened, now I'll never be warm again.<BR>Why is it dark? Is that why it's so cold? Why, why me?<BR>*stumble* why am I falling, is it the dark? So so cold, and dark.<BR>If I just lay here, maybe I'll be warmer, I'll be safe, I won't fall anymore.....<BR>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Where am I?<BR>Darn, it's cold, and so doggone dark. <BR>Why am I so sore, feel like a mountain fell on me.<BR>Oh yeah, the bad thing, darn rotten bad luck.<BR>Youch!!, what the heck, *stumble fall down* almost broke my foot<BR>Maybe I'll just lay here.<BR>*shiver* no too cold. Gotta get moving<BR>*feeling around* ah, feels like firewood, who left that laying around?<BR>Wait a minute, didn't I *feeling pockets* have a match somewhere?<BR>So cold, so dark, but what if I gather some wood, and ...<BR>A little while later my hands cup a little tiny glow and I feel warmth again<BR>I'll nurture the flame, I'll be warm and safe again.<BR>The fire will shield me from the dark, what's that?, over there, a strangely familiar mound<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Crawling over I find her, all squeezed together, lips so blue.<BR>Pushing aside the firewood I feel her pulse, a faint flutter <BR>Maybe there is time, I search her pocket for the match we all carry.<BR>As the light increases I creak to my feet and look around.<BR>I notice a few other lights in the distance, but<BR>I see many more strangely shaped mounds.<BR>There is much to be done, I must begin.<P><BR>The poem originally had to do with victims of rape/sexual abuse....but upon relflection I made it about victims of all kinds, of things beyond our ability to understand, soul destroying life events, it is also about survival, that some do, and about compassion, helping those who just can't quite get back up. I thought when I wrote it, I was sorta a benign outside observer in such things, that I was too together, to strong for such to apply to me...little did I know an arrow with my name on it was winging my way, along with a whole bunch of other arrows felling those around me...*sigh*...I cry every time I read this. To me it is about the heights and the depths of human existence, something I try to convey in my philosophic musings here, maybe the poem will give a little more insight. Is only real poem I ever wrote, don't know what came over me at the time, guess I just like playing wherever I am. The geometry of the layout of the lines is important too, I don't know why, just did it from feel. It was fun, I think maybe everyone should try to write a poem once in awhile, it comes from a different little used place inside you when you do.<p>[This message has been edited by sad_n_lonely (edited August 28, 2001).]

I know how you feel Cali! My H says he loves me ,but is not in love with me. Yet, he has made several remarks about all the weight I have lost, and how good I look now. He has constantly made sarcastic comments about a guy at work who asked me out ( I turned him down). I don't see how he can not be in love with me, but be jealous!

Hi Cali. No, don't lead him to believe it, BUT, I think it is okay to be honest with him and say you think about it, that you've been tempted, and that you know there are other men out there that would desire you. BUT, that your marriage is MORE important to you right now and that you can't have both, SO you are focusing on your marriage and trying to work that out.<P>At least, this is the same conversation I just had with my husband yesterday. Hope it was the right thing to do...<P>See, my husband WANTS me to make him jealous, and I must admit, I do play into it every once in a while, just because I like his reaction. For instance, this guy I met the other day has been calling and leaving me messages and my husband knows about it and I don't stop him from listening to the messages. I delete them now, but I didn't then. <P>The guy wants to date me, and he really is a nice person, but I just keep telling him I can't get involved right now and that it wouldn't be right. So, he says he wants to be my friend, and I say that probably isn't a good idea right now... I refuse to meet him even in a "friend" situation, but he does call and we talk. <P>And, of course, this makes my husband jealous, but I don't DO IT to make him jealous, but I suppose I don't stop it either... I just need to figure out how to let this guy down easy so that he stops filling some of my EN's. It's hard because I don't want to lie to him, but when I'm honest, he has all the right answers so I find it hard to dispute talking to him.... He just comes off as a really nice guy that wants to help me work through my problems. He hopes my husband and I can work it out, but if we can't, then he would like a shot. Hard to dispute that, but knowing what I do about MB, it's a bad combo...<P>But, I digress... In short, I think it's a pretty safe assumption that he read your poem and got jealous and was worrying about it. I think it's good for him to wonder!! I just don't think it's good for you to lead him on when he asks direct questions...<P>HbH<BR>

SEE!! I knew you were impeccable. A long weekend, and no dates. (In my book, thoughts don't count nearly as much.)<P>If you keep writing poetry like that you can make a fortune in the music industry. Aren't all the memorable songs about cheating????<P>Pretty much everyone has already made the point about jealousy being bad. Yep, bad, bad, bad. However, the thought process he initiated on his own is something he's got to go through eventually. --> What would life really be like without you? It's even better that he considers some of those aspects without Plan B.<P>I can almost picture his thought process if he read the poem -- it was my discovery of poems from OM to W that really pushed me over the edge. <P>I'm envious of people who can implement radical honesty so well. I probably need to tell W about my "date".<P>SnL: That poem is intense. I read it this morning and didn't see the explanation at the end. It spoke to me about victims of abuse somehow finding that spark within them to start to crawl out. Then, becoming aware of others like them. However, everyone must supply "the match we all carry" and take part in their own recovery. INTENSE!!!! You can just feel the struggle.<P>--Jeffers

Cali, I had to go back two pages to see what it was I written as it was getting so much mention in your thread, suprised myself as I ussually don't have much useful to add most of the time!<P>I am sure he read the poem and started thinking and just had to ask. But think about it, wasn't it good that he asked as opposed to sulking and holding it in and then using it one day against you and you being blind sided by it? Isn't that what most guys would do? (guys I am really sorry, I just know that men and women think and do things differently) I would see that as a postive movement in your recovery, what do you think?<P>Dawn<p>[This message has been edited by daybreak (edited August 29, 2001).]

Could be a very dangerous game Cali...one that I am not sure anyone can win...If I were H, I would prefer knowing that you love me... <P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

Okay...I've been stewing on this all day...<P>A good (female) friend at work suggested that I change the ending of the poem...the poem really bothered her...she said her heart was breaking for me...<P>It really got me thinking...<P>...so words are bubbling and I am working on an ending that says...in not so many words...<P>"H...I'm having an urge to be wild with only you...."<P>Then...I'll share it with him at an 'appropriate time.'<P>Conversation today focused on 'rings.' He has hardly EVER taken his off...lately he has in order to play ball...when I don't see the ring on his finger, my heart sinks...I can't help myself from asking...<P>Today he got mad at me...I asked why...he said...didn't you get upset when I asked you the same questions over the summer when you weren't wearing your rings?<P>Now...I don't even remember him ever mentioning it...let alone thinking that it bothered him...<P>I answered..."I guess I didn't think you cared..." He just got a disgusted look on his face...<P>I have this 'strange' feeling that my H is on his way back...<P>Cali

I agree with Trueheart. This is a dangerous game. Your husband could be trying to get you to say that you'd sleep with someone else, to make himself feel better about what he did. I sit here and think, and put myself in his shoes, and I think I'd be doing the same thing. Intentionally or not, that might be the motive.<P>Stay away from it. It might feel good, in a sense, now, but it could backfire. Jealousy is not a good thing in marriage. Jdmc is right.

Cali,<P>Yep, it's a dangerous game. You need to tell him. Remember total honesty. <P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare