This is my first time posting, although I have been reading on the boards since late 2000. I have been through all the MB materials and the appropriate MB and other than MB books.<P>It has been a year since I discovered H's A, and I have been trying again and again to recover our M. I have basically been in plan A and applying MB principles for a solid year. I convinced H to go to MC for a while, but he would not put any of the C's suggestions into practice. Then he refused to return to MC. H won't read anything about recovery or Ms. We have a plan for recovery, but H won't act on his part of it. Although there have been promises of no contact and the appropriate letters written (had to be repeated), I know of contact as recently as last month. I think the A is over, but I have discovered contact so many times that I have lost count. In addition to this, I have found out about lunches alone with other young women even though I have explained my discomfort with this.<P>To make a long story short, I have tried everything I can think of, everything the MC has suggested, everything I have read about, and have repeated all the trying again and again. Still, no real efforts on his part, just more of the same. Even the MC (whom I saw alone until last month) believes that H is unlikely to change anything significant.<P>So, after a year of this, I realized that rebuilding our M was a losing battle, that staying with H meant accepting the "remainders" of him, and that I could not do that, not even until our children are out of the house (which would be another twenty years, in any event).<P>The current situation is that I have completely given up on recovering the M and have decided to recover alone. I have explained this to H calmly and asked him to leave the house. I made him a reasonable proposal for a separation followed by an immediate divorce, which included details on child custody (to me), reasonable access (almost daily for him), an even property division, child support for the kids but no alimony for me. I did this without getting a lawyer involved, in order for things to be amicable. I even offered to pay for the costs of getting the separation agreement drafted by a lawyer of his choice and getting it filed in court and the costs of filing the divorce papers. All of this was discussed calmly, without LBs, without blaming and with detailed explanation.<P>H's reply was "No". "No" to everything. He refuses to move out, he refuses to separate, he refuses to discuss a reasonable way around our stalemate. I have told him that he is leaving me no good options, no options that will keep the authorities out of this, no options that won't traumatize our children more than they already have been. His response is still "No". He says he wants our M and that things will be fine if we just continue to live as we are.<P>This situation has existed now for over a month. I live my daily life as if I am parenting my children alone. H joins in at his pleasure, and I don't make a scene for the sake of the kids; but mostly, we do activities with the children separately. We sleep in separate rooms (have for a while); we basically live separate lives.<P>I cannot continue like this indefinitely. So what do I do? Do I really have to go to court and get an order forcing him out? Do I have to get authorities to then enforce the order? I can't bring myself to do this as I keep imagining how much more damage this will do to our children.<P>Also, a colleague of mine at work, who has been a friend for years and who knows about my situation at home, wants to spend more time with me and I want to spend more time with him. We have never had anything more than a longstanding friendship (of about 10 years), he is separated from his W (and waiting for their D to be finalized), our two families used to socialize together before the demise of his M and then mine, our kids still play together sometimes. I get the feeling that he would like to explore the possibility of a relationship with me (he has been keeping close track of the situation between H and me, from a distance, but after I asked my H to leave, my friend has invited suggested we have lunch together alone); and the idea of this does appeal to me. Since I have told my H that our M is over, asked him to leave, and told him that I will unilaterally file the D papers if he does not leave soon, is there anything that should hold me back from getting closer to my colleague?<P>I want to get on with my life, heal from H's betrayal and the demise of our M, and recover alone. I have made that clear to my H. Am I beholden to H just because he refuses to give up control over me?<P>I know that this board relates to rebuilding marriages, which I have genuinely tried. Is it okay to ask questions here about recovering and healing alone?

TAAA - I'm sorry to read about your plight. It sounds like your H is used to having it both ways. He's not been forced to make a choice, and he can continue this standoff indefinitely. It also sounds like you're describing a plan B, except that you think it's too late for the marriage.<P>If you think there might still be a chance, then try moving out and take the kids. In other words, plan B without his cooperation, but it forces him to make a choice. I know that's not an easy thing to contemplate, moving out of the house. And it's a financial hit - but compare that to the total cost of a divorce. If you've stopped seeing (and paying for) your counselor, can you try talking to a counselor at MB? They would be able to help you in setting up a plan B. Maybe a lawyer has to get involved, if your H won't cooperate on the custody or child support. But I would avoid a lawyer if possible - like you already tried to do.<P>You will need help from friends, either with plan B or if you go ahead with a divorce. But if you start to date someone, that really means the marriage is over in your own mind. If you hesitate in taking that step, maybe you still think there's a chance. Maybe you should give plan B a set period of time (not telling your H what that is). If it's been a year already, maybe give plan B three to six months. Depends on how much more you can take.<P>People who have divorced, or are getting divorced, have already given up and they may try to encourage you doing the same. Don't get pushed into it. Make sure that in your own mind, you've really done everything you can.<P>- Tom<P>

I am sorry to hear your situation. It sounds like your H is wanting to continue your marriage. I'm not clear on whether your H is still participating in an A? You say you've read through everything here and have been reading for some time, so you should have heard of plan A and plan B. I think you should try plan B for a while (with the intent to continue your marriage), don't give up unless you feel you have no choice. It sounds like you have found this friend as something to fall back on, an easy out, are you having an emotional Affair with him? If this is the case, and your husband isn't trying real hard, sounds like a tough situation.<P>You said you have children, I hope you realize working things out with your H would be much better for the kids. I think you should try everything you can to repair your marriage for them. Don't give up yet, and I think you should plan B and stay away from your friend while in plan B so as to not get involved with him more than you sound like you already have. If your H is really willing to continue the marriage Plan B will wake him up and probably bring him around. Good luck, let us know what you decide to do.E

TAA,<P> Don't you do it! I mean the date with friend. Whatever you want to call it it is a date. If you want a divorce then get one. But, tell friend that you cannot see him socially while you are still married. Don't do it.<P> Ok, you may think I am just saying this from a BS standpoint. And I am, but. You need to think...could H use this against you in court? Could you have gone through all this time and pain of trying to repair your M and now at the end get raked over by the system because of something as simple as a date? <P> Not only that but, think back to when you first found out about H and OW. Didn't you ask thousands of times how he could do this? Didn't you think that he should have divorced you or at the very least left you? If you had such thoughts then only date the OM after the D.<P> Do not get involved socially with another M until your H is out of the picture completly.<P> jd

I don't know what state you live in, so don't know the laws, but I believe you will have to get an order and have your H removed from the home. If you have relatives, find a way to have your children there when the order is enforced. There are ways to keep the children out of this. If you are truly done with the M, you will find a way. I don't think you and the children should have to leave your home. The courts would want the children to stay in the home. Find a good divorce lawyer and they will be able to tell you what needs to be done. I sense that if my M doesn't work, it will be the same situation that you are in. My H wants me to do all the changing (at least at this point). He feels there's nothing wrong with him. I have told him "fine, I'm not asking you to change for me, but I am telling you that if changes aren't made, then we will need to go our separate ways." As to the other man who is interested in you, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT! I can totally understand your desire to spend time with someone who evidently has an interest in you, given the fact that your H seems content for only himself to be happy. This would be a cruel thing to do to your children at this point. As others have said, get the divorce first. This would be setting a much better example for your children than your H set for them by having the A. I wish you all the best. You are a strong and courageous woman.

tmmx,<P>I have asked him to make a choice, over and over, and he always says his choice is our M. BUT, his actions do not follow the choice. I have considered plan B, but with young children I think it is too traumatizing to "play chicken". My H and I have at least agreed about that - either we are in the M or we are getting divorced. The problem right now is that I have decided that staying in the M means accepting the unacceptable and have, therefore, chosen to get a divorce. My H, on the other hand, chooses to stay in the M while doing nothing to heal it and us, and does not respect my decision that I want him to move out and an amicable divorce (if there is such a thing).<P>I have also spoken to my C about plan B (he is familiar with the MB principles) and respects my views that plan B could very well cause more damage to our children than an outright end to the M. I want to minimize the damage to our kids, more than anything. I have been working, heart and soul, to rebuild the M so that our little ones could have a loving two parent family. I am convinced this will not happen, after having given H chance after chance after chance to make good on his promises.<P>As for being encouraged to give up, very few of my friends know about the situation. The few that do, even the really committed married ones, don't know how I have stayed as long as I have. Even the MC told my H some six months ago that he had to make some serious changes if the is to survive and that I had done everything humanly conceivable. So, don't worry, I won't get pushed into getting a divorce. It is the conclusion I have reached, having lived this past year, the years of M before that, and knowing my own limits.<P>If you have any other thoughts, I really welcome them. Thank you.<P><BR>SEM,<P>Yes, H says he wants to continue the M, but he does not DO anything about it. I don't think H is still participating in the A I found out about last year, but as I mentioned, he continues to have lunches alone with much younger women, despite my express requests that he not do this and explanation that it causes me pain and increases the risk of his having another A.<P>I explained to Tom why I don't want to go to plan B. Our kids are really young, but old enough to understand enough that the notion of "Dad's not living at home with us now. He might live with us again or perhaps he won't. We just don't know." I can't see any pre-schooler or primary school child not being completely confused, hurt, and emotionally damaged by this. I think it is unfair in the extreme to put the kids through this. If we separate, they will think, regardless of how much explaining and nurturing I do, that they are at least in part to blame. Of course they are completely blameless, but all the child psychologists, psychiatrists and counsellors agree that this is the way children in this age group react. It seems unthinkable to add to this already terrible feeling in a child and additional burden of trying to behave "perfectly" in order that Dad will move back home. I just can't do this to my kids. It seems to me that the adults who created the situation need to fix it and make it better for the kids, one way or another, not add to the hurt and confusion they will feel.<P>No, I am not having an EA with my friend. I don't see it as an "easy out", but rather as a possible step in my decision to move on with my life without my H. As I mentioned, we have been colleagues and friends for a very long time. He has kept his distance throughout the past year (and even before that when his M was ending) other than to ask for a "status report". He did not suggest lunch together until this week, a full month after I asked my H to move out. My friend did not press for an answer and is out of town, so not having lunch is no big deal. The point of my mentioning this is that even though I have made a reasoned decision to end the M, my H still controls me by refusing to move out. If he had respected my request, the separation agreement and the divorce petition would have been drafted and filed, and I could have lunch with whomever I please.<P>H is willing to continue the M, but on his terms, with no compromises, no negotiations, no meeting of my needs and no avoiding of behavior that is hurtful to me or risky to our M. I would have thought if there was any chance to "wake him up", telling him that our M is over in my mind, heart and soul and asking him to move out would have done it. The alarm sounding very loudly and repeatedly has, unfortunately, made no difference.<P>Thanks for reading and replying. What else can you suggest?<P><BR>JD,<P>I am the BS, too, and the last thing I want to do is cause the kind of pain I have felt and am still feeling. You raise a good point about using a lunch with a friend against me in court, but I cannot see how any judge in any state in any court could think that a lunch would disentitle me to custody, child support or a fair property division.<P>I have "left him" and told him so. I just have not moved out. I think that it is plainly wrong to pack up the kids, find a new home and move all of us, especially just before the school year starts. The kids have enough new things to adjust to with starting school and changing childcare arrangements. I can't believe that H can actual leave me with this and having him removed by the authorities as the only choices! Do you really think there is a court in the land who could think that this behavior indicates the person with the children's best interests at heart?<P>I don't feel strongly about getting involved with my friend. I am just furious that H continues to control my life because it suits him and only him.<P>Thanks for reminding me that even a lunch could cause my H hurt. I truly don't want to do that.<P><BR>Myownme,<P>Much as I hate the idea, I guess hiring a lawyer to get the necessary orders is the only way to go. I don't want to move the kids! That would devastate them (as if their parents splitting up is not enough!). The only family close by is my H's. So, I may have to bring the kids to a good friend's house for a "sleep over weekend". This friend and her H know about the situation and have offered their help many, many times.<P>I'll have to give all of this some more thought. My courage and strength has been drained, but at least I still have my wits (I hope).<P>Thanks.