Well,my wife(ws) and I seem to be doing pretty well,she comes over for visits a few times a week.But I just do not know she can look my kids in the eye when they ask her to stay home or when she leaves or when she says she will be over but does not show up.<P>I realize she is living a different life now but why dont the kids make any difference?I mean,I do not want her to come home because of the kids.I want her to come home for me also but at the same time....HOW CAN SHE DO THIS TO THEM?<P>Now,I cannot afford to live here anymore and I have an apartment lined up.She seems rather upset with me because I am giving up the house,but my name is not on it..hers is.I told her this morning,I said you left us in a really tight situation.I said,if I was out blowing money and just doing whatever I wanted it would be one thing.But I sit home 24/7,all the money I get goes towards food,bills and if I am lucky somthing for the kids.<P>I told her I know I am letting her down by loosing the house but I said I would be letting her down,the kids down and myself down If I dont have a place for the kids to live,if we ended up homeless...of course she does not seem to see that.She is in never never land with her om and all is fine and dandy......or is it

Hi owen - your frustration is nearly universal.<P>Most of us with children have struggled with this very problem and many more of will continue to do so in the future.<P>Logic cannot be applied, because we're not dealing with logical people. <P>It seems the only way for BSs to deal with this frustration is to think of our WSs as the evil twins of their former selves. They are not our spouses, nor our childrens' parent. They are not themselves, period.<P>The best explanation I could come up with when my wife started it all was to describe her as being abducted by aliens and having her brains scrambled. This seemed an apt, ridiculous, absurd explanation to frame her behavior. The terms, "unbelievable," "bizarre," "amazing," etc. weren't descriptive enough.<P>My point is that your wife sounds typical. Until she released by the Mothership, this will continue.<P>WAT

Well,as rude as it sounds...I am glad its not just me then.What blows my mind is this.Her mother left her and her sister when she was about the same age as our daughter(6ish) and my dad left me when I was very young also.They did not just leave,and see us on the weekends..they left.It was 15 years before I saw my father again and I do not really care if I ever see him again.<P>She saw her mother about once a year,she has not seen her for almost 2 years now and really does not care if she sees her again either.What I am saying is,she knows how it feels...I just dont get it at all.I realize she is not herself anymore but.....<P>I asked her one day in a series of lb's I said,you do not want anything to do with your mother,how long before our kids do not want anything to do with you.She lookd at me and said,why are you telling them bad things about me.I said,no,never.I just tell them mommy is taking a time out and just because she is not here does not mean she does not love you anymore.I call her at work almost everyday just so the kids can talk to her for a few minutes but it does not seem to matter much to her.I would not continue if I did not think it mattered to the kids.<P>I fear is this.Wether or not she comes home,if she does have a relationship with the kids,will she feed them bad things about me.The kids know I am here for them,they know I love them more than life its self and that I will do anything I can to make their life more enjoyable.At the same time,I know I cannot replace mommy,I am and always will be just daddy.I guess I am afraid she will tell them her leaving is my fault and they will hate daddy for running mommy off...even though thats not really the case at all.

Owen - I'm with you, man.<P>You can be sure her explanation will include a lot of blame on you. Guaranteed. We all share some of the blame, but the decision to leave in an uncivilized manner is solely theirs.<P>Please do not worry that your kids will hate you. Be the best dad you can be and they will understand in the future. It will be crystal clear to them what happened. Take the moral high ground, do not denigrate your wife to them, and continue loving them.<P>The pay off to your peace and self esteem is virtually guaranteed.<P>Believe me, you are not alone.<P>WAT

First of all I can't imagine as a mother choosing a man over your own children. I think you are doing a great job raising them on your own. You need to find a way to make them feel that their Mom's leaving had nothing to do with them and it's not their fault and that it wasn't something you wanted her to do without LBing to them. This has got to be a very scary and confusing time for them. They are going to need as much love and support as they can have. I wish you the best.

Dear owen,<P>YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE THIS... Over the weekend, I received 2 bags of clothing--one with only girl's size 6 and size 8 clothes in it--out of the blue! Do you want them? I believe these are for you... It's just way too much of a coincident.<P>If you want them let me know. I will box them up and mail to you promptly.<P>Please keep praying for your wife. She has some very serious problems that are getting in the way of her parenting, not just due to the A. From your description, your W did not receive nurturing from her mom, so maybe that is how she can be so cold to the kids. Thank God they have you. Float the boat, man! My prayers are with you.

WOW,thats awsome.e-mail me at aandosdaddy@aol.com and i will send my address.<P>i started counseling today.he is a chrisitan and thinks i need to threat divorce.he said my wife is going through alot of stuff and this might be what it takes to wake her up.<P>i dont know what im supposed to do now.

What to do now? Well for starters, dump this counselor.<P>That's the worst advice you could get. Run, don't walk, away from this counselor.<P>Why threaten divorce when this is exactly what you don't want?<P>I'm sorry, but this is stupid advice.<P>Are you smart yet on Plan A?<P>Have you read Surviving An Affair?<P>Please, please, please DO NOT make ANY threats!!!<P>WAT

up<P>Will somebody back me up on the "threaten divorce" thing before owen does it?<P>WAT

Too funny WAT!!! ROTFL!! <P>But owen, I think worthatry is right. You are a Marriage Builder and a Plan A'er who doesn't engage in Love Busters. I'm pretty sure "empty threats" would fall under the category of a LB?!! OH YES! They do--I think empty threats would be considered dishonesty!!! There ya go!<P>Hang on kiddo. I'm looking for a big box so I can put your name on it! God is good!

Well,I could not do it.She got here and we talked a bit,she said we are the only thing she can think about anymore.She said when she goes to the store and sees kids with their mommies it makes it even worse for her.I also dropped a note off at the counelers office that I will not be going there anymore.<P>We are going to have to move very soon after all.I was going to try to put it off but the land we are on got sold for commerical use and...thats that.<P>Thanks for your support!

Owen I cannot commend you enough for being the father you are right now. As a BS I can tell you I know that it is certainly not easy being the primary parent. Regardless of if you and your WW reconcile or not your children are forming a special bond with you that will never die. They know that in their little hearts daddy is always there for them not mommy. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but it's truth. I'm sure your W loves the children very much and right now she doesn't see how this has affected them. One day she will. I agree that she has alot of issues she needs to deal with. She has to think about what it was like growing up without her own mother and now that same pattern is being repeated with her and her children. How can you look inot those litle faces and tell yourself that this is okay. All our WS's are being selfish when it comes to the children. My WH and I had a similiar conversation this evening and he agreed that the hardest thing is not being with the kids. That's their decision not ours. you don't see us bailing on the kids. We live for them. I also agree with WAT about dumping the counselor. Stay strong we're for you. Prayers to you and your kids<BR>cybil

Dear owen,<P>Just so that you know, I mailed the clothes on Friday afternoon from California. My guess is that you should receive 2 boxes, a big one and a small one by no later than TUESDAY! GOD HAS BLESSED YOU! Keep the faith and good news about your wife's heart of compassion being stirred toward her kids! THERE IS HOPE FOR YOU TWO!!!! Praise God!

Thanks,I will keep my eyes and ears open for a knock on the door.Did you send them ups?I just love our ups delivery guy,he always makes me laugh and I can use a good laugh right now.<P>She is supposed to be here in a few minutes,I have to take some proof of income papers to the apt.rental office and she has to sign one of them and have it notorised...proving she pays non court ordered child support.<P>O.T quesition,this forum for some reason does not save my member name and password.I have it set up to but it does not work...any ideas why?

Owen:<P>Just a re-affirmation of what WAT has said above.<P>Read, read, read. Then begin your Plan A.<P>Glad you dumped the MC who advised divorce (maybe his brother is a divorce attorney, who knows?).<P>As WAT also mentioned ... a WS's behavior is erratic and follows no earthly logic. We kid a lot here about the Mothership, alien abductions and Moose Brain Worms. But there is a grain of truth in the jesting. WS's live in a separate world of self-justification of their behavior. The permutations and quantum leaps they must take to get there can be truly astounding.<P>It has been also called the "rollercoaster ride from Hell" ... your emotions will be subject to more rises and falls than a World Trade Center express elevator. Expect that, and find a way to deal with it.<P>The goal (in Plan A), is to begin the process of making you a better you, to begin that "reconnection" process with your WS. No methodology is foolproof (it has been said that the reason is that fools are so ingenius), but MarriageBuilder's approach not only gives you the best shot at recovering your marriage (and ultimately, a much better marriage) than anything else going. And even if the marriage should fail (after all, it takes both of you giving 100% to make recovery work), what you learn here will have made you a better person. So this process is a win-win situation for you (even though there will be many days when it doesn't feel that way).<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Not sure why your screen name is not saved, but my home pc saves mine for me??<P>SNAIL MAIL--check today's--should be there!!!