Hi to everyone, Hope all had a good week. I have a couple of questions, I guess for all you more experienced MB and the WS out there. Does the WS ever feel guilty about what he or she has done to the BS and family?? Have any of you WS never felt guilt or remorse?? And what are the reactions that a WS shows when he is feeling the guilt?? Also how long does it take for them to realize the extent of what they have done?? Sorry for all the ? but some of the post I have been reading do show WS saying there sorry and they made a mistake etc.. Things that are helpful in helping the BS heal. My WH has not said any of these things to me, What does this mean? could there be no hope? Is it the fog?? anyone have any ideas?? I know it is going to take time, but its been 14 months,(1 month since I found out about A) I need time but it helps me to cope knowing someday we could be together again. I wait everyday for him to apolize and say what a jerk he has been but it never comes.If anyone can give me some advice it would be great Thanks Sally

SS,<P>I don't know how much help I can be. My H says he doesn't regret the A, but he regrets what he's done to our marriage and to me. The biggest thing though to him is he's going to have to decide between me or the OW ("his best friend"). He says he regrets that he let it get that far. I realize my part in this and he realizes that since it did go to far with her he will have to choose eventually. He's still in the fog though so I'm not pushing right now. We've both decided that he will have to decide EVENTUALLY. This isn't going to go on forever. The PA has stopped and since OW broke it off with him there hasn't been much contact that I know. H also has all the classic withdrawal symptoms (depressed, irritable) so I don't believe she has been calling. I know that may not be much help, but at least H has gotten to the point where he says he's sorry for what he did to our marriage.<P>------------------<BR>Dumplin <P>E-mail ajowens@dfa.state.ar.us

<BR> You have every right to ask all these ?. Are the two of you working on the marriage together now? I need to know this before I can share how guilt impacted and impacts me now. Please let me hear from you. Yesitcan! Work<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sad Sally:<BR><B>Hi to everyone, Hope all had a good week. I have a couple of questions, I guess for all you more experienced MB and the WS out there. Does the WS ever feel guilty about what he or she has done to the BS and family?? Have any of you WS never felt guilt or remorse?? And what are the reactions that a WS shows when he is feeling the guilt?? Also how long does it take for them to realize the extent of what they have done?? Sorry for all the ? but some of the post I have been reading do show WS saying there sorry and they made a mistake etc.. Things that are helpful in helping the BS heal. My WH has not said any of these things to me, What does this mean? could there be no hope? Is it the fog?? anyone have any ideas?? I know it is going to take time, but its been 14 months,(1 month since I found out about A) I need time but it helps me to cope knowing someday we could be together again. I wait everyday for him to apolize and say what a jerk he has been but it never comes.If anyone can give me some advice it would be great Thanks Sally</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Sally it took my H 6 mo past d-day to really seem to be sorry and admit it was wrong and acknowledge the hurt he has caused me. He hates to talk about it though unless we are at counseling where I bring it up. He waffled for several months after dday moved out to be with OW then back in then waffled some more and then went into several months withdrawal. Finally out of that by 2 mo or so. If he is still in contact with her expect no remorse from him. And in withdrawal they are in one big pity party frame of mind so thats no better. It takes them awhile after that for any empathy to take effect.will your H go to counseling either alone or with you? Mine went a few times then quit for a few months then went individually and now we go together lifeismessy

Hi yesitcan, Thanks for reply, No my WH and I are not working on the M together he shows no interest in trying to make it work. We have been M 18 years and have 3 children, I am devasted. Says he is leaving and wants a Seperation, but shows no desire to leave and has not left as of today. I feel if he left maybe we both would heal and then maybe he would realize what he has done and feel the guilt, What do you think of that?? love Sally

Hi Sally. Since I am the BS and my WH has not really apologized yet I know how you feel. We're a little over 5 mos. separated and the only time he apologized for anything was when I initally checked his cell bill online and found out he was talking to this married co-worker(OW) he was sincere in saying that he never meant to hurt me. I cried and cried and he was really upset. He still says that they are nothing more than friends. Don't think he will ever admit to anything else unless he is caught like a deer in the headlights. <BR>C

Thanks lifeismessy, I realize it will probably take a while for everything to sink in to WH about what he has done. I am thinking if I were in his position I would not be able to live with the guilt!!My Wh refuses counseling so thats a problem. You have really been through a lot How do you deal with all the waffling? Sally

Hi cybil, How are you? thank you for your reply, it doesn't make any sense that they won't admit or feel remorse once the BS finds out. I mean I found the e-mails the pictures the cards and he still insists it was nothing, comeon!!! What he wrote to the OW in the card, still haunts me. he wrote I will love you forver, Thank you for being in mylife, to the woman I love YUCK!!!! this makes me sick. He was really having some hot and heavy relationship!! Sally

<BR> Sally, I am not sure what to think. Tell him you love him and want to be his wife for the rest of your life. Tell him you want to work on the marriage with him to work through all things that are hurting the marriage. Suggest that he go to joint therapy with you also tell him you are going to go to individule therapy and that he should go for individule therapy also. Do what it takes to show him you want to work on the marriage. You leave him if you have to to get his attention; tell him you are ready to work together when ever he is ready but if he does not want the marriage then you can not be with him. Do this the nicest way you can. perhaps you should go to a theripist befor you do any thing. I just know if the two of you do not work on the marriage together you will never recover. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sad Sally:<BR><B>Hi yesitcan, Thanks for reply, No my WH and I are not working on the M together he shows no interest in trying to make it work. We have been M 18 years and have 3 children, I am devasted. Says he is leaving and wants a Seperation, but shows no desire to leave and has not left as of today. I feel if he left maybe we both would heal and then maybe he would realize what he has done and feel the guilt, What do you think of that?? love Sally</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Oh, Sad Sally, I have no answers, only empathy. Your story sounds so much like mine! My WS seems quite sincere about hating that this causes me pain, but can't give up the "beautiful friendship." WS also says that there is no need for any outside counsel, since only the two of us really know what we feel. (any WS out there ->Do you think that means there would be willingness to fill out ENQ and give me more input about which of my behaviours are LBs?) But at this point, WS has no intention of leaving, claiming that the reason the "wonderful friendship" bothers me is that I am conditioned to feel this way because of the way I was brought up. I hope that is fog talking! All this "It feels so right with OP" makes me literally ill - I lost almost 10 pounds the week after DDay. (40 more to go...)<P>Note to dumplin: How wonderful that the A has stopped. WS says that my best chance is that OP break it off because WS has no intention of doing so. <P>Note to lifeismessy: I have been lurking for awhile and I really like your username.<P>Thanks all for listening!

This gets asked alot. I guess it is natural to expect remorse and guilt, it helps one feel the perp is now safe. The problem is an affair is not a crime against the bs (although it can feel like it). It is about the ws and what they need, so it is unrealistic to expect them to feel guilty about what they feel is emotional survival. In addition they often feel emotionally abandoned by the bs. All this is very confusing to everyone, and fruitless to dwell on as well. What needs to be worked on as fast as possible, is what happened, why it happened, and can it be fixed. I feel "bad" my bs was so unhappy, but I know I did nothing deliberate to hurt her, is unlikely I will ever feel guilty, I am too pragmatic. On the other hand the ow feels intense guilt, not only to her family, but to mine, and to me (for abandoning me), of course she feels guilty about everything all the time, and the people in her life feed on that, it is called abuse, she is not taken care of emotionally. I took care of her. So it varies, by the circumstances, and by the individuals. IMO focusing on remorse is a waste of emotional resources, the only goal should be discovering if you are both attracted to each other and want to be married.... all else flows from there.

SADSALLY<P>MY WH IS JUST LIKE YOURS. DOES NOT SAY HE WANTS TO WORK ON MARRAIGE. SAYS HE IS LEAVING BUT IS STILL HERE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE IS WAITING ON. SAYS WHEN HE GET THE MONEY. JOKE! DDAY WAS 2 MONTHS AGO. I AM REALLY LOSING LOVE FOR HIM. I REALLY WANT MY MARRIAGE TO WORK. BUT FIND IT VERY HARD WHEN THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO DO ANYTHING EXCEPT WHAT THEY WANT TO. I HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB OF PLAN A. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. AND ONE DAY AT A TIME.

Sally- I have strong religious convictions that divorce is wrong except in cases of physical abuse/alcoholism etc. I have seen what divorce does to friends of my kids and it aint pretty. Like you my H and I are in a long marriage- 15 yrs and have 3 kids from teen down to 4 yr old. How did I cope while H was in his fog? Well I went to lots of womens Bible studies, cried with my pastor, went to a psychologist, got on effexor- a strong antidepressant/anxiety med that cut down on my crying jags, tried to think of H as temporarily insane, remembered that before the A he was very honest with me for 14 yrs. Also I went to Starbucks every day to think-- vegged out with a giant latte and some lemon cake and some peace and quiet. Hope these ideas inspire you. My H and I went to therapy last night and he finally is admitting to me that he told OW he was out of love with me- I wanted him to admit it to me. I also asked him to say to me that his affair was HIS choice and that it was a mistake- he DID! Major progress there- finally 6 mo after d-day!He also said that because of his deep guilt he was trying to anger me and provoke me to divorce HIM and that he is so greatful now that I didnt. lifeismessy

My H started feeling tremendous guilt immediately. Havign an affair was against everything he believed in, how he'd been raised etc. That's why he moved out within a month after started the A. He said the guilt was "crushing". Tha'ts why he got so angry when I would do nice things for him. Of course it didn't go away after he moved out. After we reconciled he expressed (and showed) tremendous remorse for everything. The affair, moving out, the pain he had caused etc. If he hadn't been sorry for having an A in the first place I don't think we woudl be together now.

My H also felt guilt and disgust for what he had done to me and our marriage. He had a strong moral upbringing and knew what he had done was wrong. Not just for my sake, but his also.

Sadsally,<BR>I am the WS. My A was 4yrs ago, but my H found out 2 months ago. I thought I could try to share alittle with you.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sad Sally:<BR><B> Does the WS ever feel guilty about what he or she has done to the BS and family?? <BR>I feel guilty and awful. I am still trying not to hate myself for what I've done.<P> And what are the reactions that a WS shows when he is feeling the guilt?? <BR>I cry ever time we get into a deep conversation about the A, and what I should have done to prevent it.<P>Also how long does it take for them to realize the extent of what they have done??<BR>IMO, You don't relize until your out of the fog and see what they really have going on. <P> Thanks Sally</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It took time for me to apologize to my H because I felt that sorry wasn't good enough. I was afraid to talk to him because I was afraid to have my incident rubbed in my face, and to feel the pain I caused.<P>Good luck. Sherry<BR>