For background see my doozy of a LB post]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/012469.html]<P>H found me at our business at 2 a.m. At least, he cared enough to come looking for me. He came bursting in, telling me that I was full of s***, and the fight was on.<P>At one point, I told him that losing our babies and his cheating were the three most painful things I've ever been through in my life. He then started shouting about how I was blaming him for our babies deaths. It took me 30 minutes to get him to understand that I was not and had NEVER blamed him for that. Then, he said that he guessed I was saying that I got over losing our babies, but I wouldn't get over his cheating. I told him that I would never get over losing our babies, but that losing them was something that just HAPPENED...nothing could have saved them, but that the cheating was harder to get over because it was a CHOICE. I also told him that the reason I can't get over the cheating was because of his attitude. I finally told him how much it hurt me that he told me he "wasn't going to be punished". I told him that I didn't want to punish him, but that I did need him to HELP me through it. He swore that the STD Tramp was the only time he had cheated. I'm not convinced that he didn't at least have an EA with Cafe Woman; I saw too much stuff there. However, I will have to figure out how to communicate with him that cheating does not have to be physical. <P>He said that he resented my trying to "make him" stay out of bars, beer joints and CW's restaurant. I told him that I didn't want to "make" him do anything, but that it hurt me for him to ignore my feelings. I asked him what the difference was between his asking me not to go to the bar after he got mad at the bar owner's wife (who was the bartender) and my asking him not to go to the bar (where CW often went). He said that was different, but he could never tell me why it was different. I think he's !<P>After about an hour of this, we went home. He finally got quiet while I told him how I felt. I told him that I felt unlovable, fat, old, ugly; that nothing I could ever do would please him; that I was frustrated when I tried to make myself more attractive to him, only to get no reaction out of him. I reminded him of how he used to get so aggravated at his mother who would open Christmas presents without ever changing her expression or acting pleased to get something that we knew she wanted. Oh, she would say, "That's nice," or "Thank you", but that was it. I told him that's the way I felt about him...that I never saw any change in the expression on his face that showed he was pleased about anything I ever did. I told him that I know he loves me, but that I didn't feel like he was "in love" with me. I told him that I have tried as much as I'm able without some input or encouragement from him, and that I was ready to give up. I told him all this using "I feel" statements as much as possible.<P>He sat and listened to all that, but seemed really "cold". I was spilling my guts to him, but he just sat there like a bump on a log.<P>Then, he told me that he had planned on divorcing me because he was "tired of putting up with my s***" once our daughter got to be 18. He said that he came close to divorcing me earlier, but decided to hang in there a while longer since we were having so much trouble with our rebellious daughter. Once she turned 18, he figured, well, he'd give me a while longer, since he did still care about me. (Gee, I wonder why he went along with going into debt to remodel our house then.) Then, he said that he came close to divorcing me several times since then, but that I had gotten better over the past couple of years (Thank you, Plan A!).<P>Needless to say, this just about crushed me. I went into our bedroom, and for the first time wondered why do I even want to live.<P>He came into the bedroom to see if I was all right, and we continued talking.<P>He said the sex had gotten better (so why didn't he want it?), because I used to lay there like a stick. I acknowledged that and apologized, but I did tell him that I had not gotten much pleasure from sex then because he always kept on and on about me doing something I was not comfortable with doing. I told him that while I had enjoyed sex in our past, at that time, I was feeling like it didn't matter that it was <B>me</B> in the bed with him, that sex felt like one more chore I had to do. Also, I did address the fact that I <B>knew</B> he had cheated, and that my actions/reactions to him were probably out of buried anger.<P>Oh, there's more, but too much to tell here.<P>He finally did tell me that he didn't understand the difference between loving me and being "in love" with me. I explained that I feel being "in love" means feeling like I just can't wait to see him again, wanting to spend time with him, being passionate about him, thinking lovingly about him almost all the time. OK, now I can see that I haven't been feeling much "in love" with him lately. <P>Anyway, he asked me what he was supposed to do. I told him that when I spilled my guts to him, it would make me feel loved for him to put his arms around me and comfort me. So, he did tell me that he loves me and wants to stay married to me. I told him that I could get over the cheating, that I do forgive him for it, but that my biggest problem was with not being able to tell him when I was upset about something or discuss our relationship...that just not talking about things was not helping me at all.<P>So, it seems that he started wanting to divorce me around the time he had his fling with the STD Tramp. Yes, I probably was acting out in our marriage....being passive-aggressive from anger and withdrawing from him. I have long since come to realize that and tried to change. I am thankful that he finally acknowledges the changes I've made, and I'm painfully aware that I have many other big changes to make. I've just been too "immobilized" by depression to get with the program, even though I've been on anti-depressants for the past year. I know that I tend to physically "shut down" when I'm depressed and emotionally exhausted.<P>So, we're going on a trip with our camper next week up the Eastern Seaboard and through the New England states. We've had this trip planned for quite a while, and weren't sure whether to go ahead with all the devastation or not, but finally decided to go. We need some recreational time together, and I'm hoping that we'll be able to reconnect on this trip. I'm really happy that he respected my wishes NOT to invite another couple this year. I had really been feeling that he was avoiding emotional connection with me by always having other people around.<P>We have lots more to talk about, but I'm hoping that we can now talk about things without anger taking over.<P>Do y'all think this is progress??<P><p>[This message has been edited by Lady Clueless (edited September 13, 2001).]

I think it is good that you guys have decided to go ahead with your trip. That's progress.<P>I don't think it's good to let past resentments build up and up and hold things against each other forever.<P>What if you guys wrote everything on a board that you have been holding against each other and then just erase it for once and for all and start fresh. Too many past hurts are tripping you up. Gotta let stuff go.<P>At least you are talking, that's good. At least he is willing to work things out and sounds like you both still have a lot of love for each other. That's really good. Build on that. Forget the past and build on the love you still have.<P>Definitely gotta forget STD Tramp because every time you focus on your hatred for her, you inadvertently take it out on your H and he's trying to do his best to get along, right? I mean, he's still with you. You're still going on your trip. That's a verrrry good thing IMO. <P>Something tells me your H would breathe a sigh of relief if you guys could just drop the past and start fresh, I think you would too. Might as well?! All we can do with the past is forget about it.<P>Plus, I think you misinterpret things the other one says, you know, add your personal hurts to comments and make it out to be more hurtful than intended--like the lunch date offer after court--that might have been a nice lunch if things didn't get so screwy in your mind.<P>Take a deep breath, dust yourself off, and keep going forward. I think you guys will make it through. Be pleasant. Don't twist things each other says. Doesn't sound to me like either of you say or do things purposely to hurt each other at all. At least that's what I see looking in from the outside...

<BR>Dear Lady Clueless,<P>Please read my post to Sad-n-Lonely and thinker on Emotional needs forum. I think it could help you.<P>