H has just called and said, "You're going to make this all me, aren't you? You're going to make my life miserable, aren't you? Why can't you accept that I gave you everything I could and realized that you just didn't love me enough to reciprocate the way I need you to? I feel in love with someone else and realized that it can be easy and not frustrating. Why can you not accept blame for some of this? I cannot be happy living with you and feel enthusiasm. I will be a much better father when I'm free of you." I calmly responded, "You have to face the truth of this. I am to blame for the state of the marriage but NOT for you having the affair. You have to confront the fact you cheated. Bottom line is that when you leave this family, it is you that has decided to give up and you must accept sole responsibility for that." <P>What do you think?

I think "Good on you!" as they say in Oz...and don't you dare let him try to blame you for his faults!!!!

I think you said the right thing to your H. Keep plan Aing and hope he comes out of the fog. This is the hardest thing I have ever had to do. My WH is still in thick fog, not sure if he has talked to OW. He says he has not... but too many lies. I have done a good job of plan A. If we do D I can say I gave it my all to save my M.<P>God Bless and good luck.

Stay the course, Terrified. While we are each partially responsible for the state of your marriage prior to the A it was his choice to have the A! Be strong. You are doing the right thing. Good luck and I'll say a prayer for you.

You did good. He took decisions all the way through his affair, to grow more and more involved with another woman. He could have handled the state of the marriage in any number of ways, but he hooked up with the OW.<P>He's scrambling to build a platform of righteousness for being where he is today, digging in the rubble of your marriage for justification. There wasn't a clear field for him to start a new romance. He hadn't ended your marriage before he started nibbling on the ear of the OW. (That's all repititious, sorry.)<P>He won't see what he doesn't want to see. But don't let him tear you down or slow you from taking care of your own life. When the WS has an affair, they revise history, we all know that. You get so you don't even recognize the story they tell about how you got involved, got married, made a family, and so forth. You find out what you REALLY did years later, because at the time you supposedly did the thing that hurt or angered them, they never made a peep about it. <P>He's raving. That's not so bad; at least he's not detatched and calm and emotionally cold to you. <P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

Terrified:<P>I personally don't think your replies are very helpful to marriage recovery. I don't know where you are in this situation (is the affair ongoing?), but you're educating your spouse---and that's a lovebuster. <P>Let's take your husband's complaints:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why can't you accept that I gave you everything I could and realized that you just didn't love me enough to reciprocate the way I need you to?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, I truly doubt that he gave you <B>everthing</B> he could, but that's the way he "feels". Your appropriate response is to tell him that you're trying to learn the skills to reciprocate the love in a marriage in the way that he would like.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>? I feel in love with someone else and realized that it can be easy and not frustrating. Why can you not accept blame for some of this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Acknowledge that he did fall in love, and that you do accept (some of the) blame for the state of the marriage.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I cannot be happy living with you and feel enthusiasm. I will be a much better father when I'm free of you."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why can't he be happy? Are you continually lovebusting? If you are, this is a request to stop. If you're not and he's either still in the affair (or in withdrawal), your appropriate response may be to let him know that you love him and are committed to his happiness---but that if he's miserable, perhaps a separation would be best for him (Plan B).<P>Your response was:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You have to face the truth of this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Big selfish demand/disrespectful judgement<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am to blame for the state of the marriage but NOT for you having the affair.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Completely true. Helpful??? Probably not at this point.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You have to confront the fact you cheated.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Selfish demand/disrespectful judgement.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Bottom line is that when you leave this family, it is you that has decided to give up and you must accept sole responsibility for that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Disrespectful judgement.<P>Now---all these "disrespectful judgements" that you are making are quite "true". But they're not how your husband currently perceives the truth---and they certainly do nothing to enhance a romantic relationship at this point in time. What's your goal? If it's to make your husband leave in an angry, combative atmosphere---you're going to achieve it.<P>If you're more interested in reconciliation, you're going to need to learn to temper your speech, and try to respond with kindness (if possible). It has nothing to do with him "blaming" you---you're not going to get reconciliation by force here.

Thanks for all of your responses. So, you're all saying that these words are still classic fog because he certainly sounds very convincing. <P>One thing I failed to mention is that he's wondering why other men/women that are cheated on just kick their spouses out..."if you didn't do that, it means you feel blame." I responded, "As I mentioned, I feel blame for the state of the marriage but not for the way you chose to deal with the problems."<P>

Terrified.<P>You're right. Is that all you want? To be right?<P>Well there you go.<P>But that isn't gonna save your marriage. I've walked away from my BS for making the same kind of statements you are. <P>Listen to K. <BR>

Dear T,<P>What you say at this point, pro or con will not be received that way. These are the same things H said to me. <P>You know what both he and OW (especially H) counted and planned on the fact (their fact) that I would just kick him out on his but.... real quick..... That would have given them full justification to the 1/2 truths already concocted by H and exaggerated by OW which then turned into outright lies. Ow was very clever and colorful when it came to downing me. From their description, I should have been locked up and she even said so. Well, I am still a free woman...... though OW may have a few points against her (legal and otherwise).... <P>Ok, even if you are having the same issue as I had. Given that your H is mad at you that you are taking away his reasons to make you look bad, then fine let him be angry. But at himself. <P>Were you words harsh? Disrespectful judgements? Probably. Warranted? Yes. So what are you suppose to do? Hm..... the words have already come out. Don't browbeat them. Your H will make further attempts at pushing your buttons. Be aware and be prepared. <P>Be prepare your reaction as best as possible. You are now aware of what he is capable of saying. My H said these things for months, I finally took away his reasons for leaving his family and he even told OW. That made OW angry. Hm...... An angry OW does not score many love bank points. ya know?<P>Your prepared reaction? Can consist of a look of sadness, tears of hurt and sorrow (genuine of course). When you feel anger at his words, remember it is not because you have done something to warrant it, then walk away. Let the last thing he hears be his words not yours. <P>You know what angered my H? Me saying, ok very quietly. ya know, he did not want me to agree or disagree with him. So why was he telling me anything? He just wanted me to hear them. Ok, so I heard them now what? Finally, that is what I did, just listened. Then asked, ok..... what do you think I should do with this info because I am confused. With tears I said this. What was he suppose to do? Browbeat me more? Well he could try but it would lead to more confusing questions and this really throws some WSs for a loop. <P>Aaaah.... a loop, ok, but is it confusing? Yes it is. So tell them. In as nice a way as possible. Again the last thing they will hear and recall is their own loud angry outburst and remember seeing your tears and quiet response. See if you make a quiet response, they will have to strain to listen. hm..... oh pay attention???? yep or walk away and not listen. If they are not willing to listen, why force them to? Chances are it won't do any good. <P>The purpose of this excercise? Is to get your WS's grey cells working. Thinking back to reality. Get him to hear himself and listen when you 'speak softly'.<P>JMHO,<BR>L. <BR>

Dear L and K, Ok, I concede. I do want to be right but I agree. Being right won't save my marriage. However, I'm just having a problem with my H always needing to blame and needing to be right. It sends me into defensive mode which I thought I was so sure I was over...help me on how to deal with how he'd like to explain his departure. I said, "You're not happy. You need you to leave." is the only way. He'd like for me to say, "We're having problems. We decided to separate." Hoewver, when he does leave, the second scenario will be plainly wrong since I will be devastated. <P>Let me know what you think. I appreciate ALL of your viewpoints. <P>Thanks.