I went into plan B the beginning of August. I was so worried that my WH would not be able to find his way home that I broke it by contacting him. He was very receptive to me at first. Then he went back to the way it was. My fault- I know. <BR>I am going back into plan B again. This time it needs to be stronger or he won't believe me. But I do mean everything I say in this letter. Please review for me and give feedback. Thanks.<P>Dear-------<P>You died last summer. That's how I feel. The man I knew and loved-I haven't seen him since we were in Fairmont last summer buying jams and jellies together..<P>You've changed into someone I don't even know now. Someone who is willing to hurt me and carry on as if nothing has happened. I see the old you sometimes, for brief periods of time, but then he leaves again. Who are you?<P>Let's cut to the chase. Let's be brutally honest here.<P>For whatever reasons, you have chosen to stay living with a woman that came along at a vulnerable time in your life. <P>I have been standing on my head to please you, make you come home, show you I love you.<P>But really it's very simple. You can boo hoo about the past all you want, it's the future that's still to be decided apon.<P>On one hand you can choose to stay with her and continue to have a life with her. I will eventually loose interest in you. We will divorce. How much you see your adult children is between you and them. Our assets will be divided and we will carry on with life, obviously scarred from the divorce but I guess we will survive. <P>On the other hand, you could choose to end your affair with Cindy and work at rebuilding our marriage of 25 years. This is not a threat. This is the way it is.<P>It's that simple. I will now continue on with my life. I will carry on as if you did die and things will become easier for me. <BR>I will not live in a situation that is unhealthy and disrespectful of me any longer.. The world has enough stress in it and I need to surround myself with family and friends that support me in a loving way. <BR>Life is too short to spend it worrying.<BR>I'm starting the journey of my new life.<P>Obviously, I still hope that you will join me in it, once your affair has ended.<P>But realistically, that hop will die.<P>I know you won't contact me as long as you are with her and I will not contact her.<P>Is this good-bye?<BR>The ball is in your court.<P>love,<BR>conni

As I sit here contemplating what I just wrote I wonder if I shouldn't just write nothing. It just seems foolish. If I am just not available any longer he'll eventually get the picture.

Dear Maezy just wanted to say i read your letter and the way you said it felt like your H had died just about summed it up for me too, ive been with my H 26 years and he is a complete stranger now.<BR>I just dont know this man anymore he is a cold hard selfish liar, he used to be so kind.<BR>I didint write mine a letter just told him we were over, that was a week ago in some ways its a relief in others im i pieces. <BR>to be honest i dont know if im coming or going but i will survive im sure.<BR>sorry i cant be of help to you but im sure the others will advise you, good luck.<P>------------------<BR>lizzle<BR>The hardest thing to do is watch the person you love love someone else

<<< <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MAEZY:<BR><B>As I sit here contemplating what I just wrote I wonder if I shouldn't just write nothing. It just seems foolish. If I am just not available any longer he'll eventually get the picture.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>>>><P>I think the letter is a good idea. It makes things very clear. I noticed that in dealing with someone in the fog things have to be pretty much spelled out. I wrote my H a similar letter towards the end of fog. Right after that was when he FINALLY realized that he was acting bizarrely, really was depressed etc.<P>

MAEZY:<BR>First of all, let me say that I know you need some real EXPERTS to comment to you, but none has yet, so I will start the ball rolling. Since I'm fairly new at this myself, please take anything I say with a grain of salt. If you have SAA, please PORE over it for help as well.<P>As I sit here reading your letter, and contemplating a similar one for myself, I see several things that worry me. In the last few months I have (finally) begun to understand about LB'ers. I'm afraid your letter sounds like it has a few. I think it needs to be toned down a little. Let me go over the points I think need work:<P><B>Dear-------<P>You died last summer. That's how I feel. The man I knew and loved-I haven't seen him since we were in Fairmont last summer buying jams and jellies together..<P>You've changed into someone I don't even know now. </B> OK, so far. This next part sounds like a disrespectful judgement (IMO):<I> Someone who is willing to hurt me and carry on as if nothing has happened. I see the old you sometimes, for brief periods of time, but then he leaves again. Who are you?<P>Let's cut to the chase. Let's be brutally honest here.</I><P> OK, between your last BOLD part to here, I think, could be cut out entirely. Then pick up here:<BR><B>For whatever reasons, you have chosen to stay living with a woman that came along at a vulnerable time in your life. <BR></B> Stop here. Don't tell him how HARD you've tried to please him....that sounds like "acting" - not real, not gonna last.<BR><B>I have been standing on my head to please you, make you come home, show you I love you.<P>But really it's very simple. You can boo hoo about the past all you want, it's the future that's still to be decided apon.</B> (LB here)<P>Then pick up here again....<BR><B> <I>On one hand you can choose to stay with her and continue to have a life with her. I will eventually loose interest in you. We will divorce. How much you see your adult children is between you and them. Our assets will be divided and we will carry on with life, obviously scarred from the divorce but I guess we</I> </B> CHANGE TO *I* <I> <B>will survive. <P>On the other hand, you could choose to end your affair with Cindy and work at rebuilding our marriage of 25 years. </I> </B> STOP HERE! DO NOT SAY THE NEXT PART! NO!! NO!!<P>This is not a threat. This is the way it is.<P>It's that simple. I will now continue on with my life. I will carry on as if you did die and things will become easier for me. <BR><I> START HERE AGAIN</I><BR><B> I will not live in a situation that is unhealthy and disrespectful of me any longer.. The world has enough stress in it and I need to surround myself with family and friends that support me in a loving way. <BR>Life is too short to spend it worrying.<BR>I'm starting the journey of my new life.<P>Obviously, I still hope that you will join me in it, once your affair has ended.<P>But realistically, that hop will die.<P>I know you won't contact me as long as you are with her and I will not contact her.<P>Is this good-bye?<BR>The ball is in your court. <P>love,<BR>conni</B><P>That's where I would start. I hope others (with a proven track record) would jump in to help you....<P>L<BR>

Thankyou so much all, for taking the time to read through my long winded letter and put so much thought into your answers.<P>I do realize that I've LBed here bigtime, but I guess I was frustrated. I will tone it down as lupolady suggests.<P><BR>Now what if I took a different approach...<P>Dear (WH)<P>I realize that I need to be a good sport about your new life. I have decided that although I don't agree, I will leave you alone to live it. I wish you to be happy and so I will step aside and you can concentrate on your new life and I on mine.<BR>I hope to increase my income so that I will soon be able to take over all the payments here and you will be free to carry on without having to make these.<BR>I ask that you don't contact me anymore and I won't contact you. It's just easier for me that way.<BR>Of course I still hope for our future but I cannot do this alone. I wish you all the best.<BR>I hope you call me if for some reason things don't work out with her..................<P>This is a sample of another approach. I honestly feel I could send either letter and still be honest at the same time. My emotions are that up and down. I do think that I should send some type of letter as it will release me from having to worry about how to handle him next time I see him.<P>

The first letter was NOT a Plan B letter. YOu are correct it was full of LB's. It's okay to write letters as this BUT DO NOT SEND THEM! It gets your feelings out a little better for YOU to understand and deal with.<P>The letter should explain you love him. You are understanding what you did wrong in the relationship. You are learning new behaviors.<P><B>I ask that you don't contact me anymore and I won't contact you. It's just easier for me that way.<BR></B><BR>Explain why it is easier. You want the marriage to work but it hurts too much for you to interact wiht him while he is still with ow.<P>You don't want to burn ANY bridges at this point. When/if the time comes, you can divorce with much, much less bitterness/anger/resentment.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Hi Maezy:<P>I like your new letter much better but it still has the tone of recrimination about it. I've never had to write a Plan B letter but my general understanding of it is that it is almost like a "love" or rather a "preservation of love" letter....you are being forced to do something you don't want to do to preserve your love for your WH and to protect yourself from his actions.<P>There is also nothing in this letter indicating your willingness to admit your contributions to the breakdown of the marriage which I think is encouraged by the Harleys.<P>Although I generally agree with the "setting them free" Dobson approach, I don't think it is appropriate here. You should have already given them the freedom to choose and they apparently have and continue to choose OW....and that as a result you are being forced to withdraw yourself from the fray (so to speak) because of its effect on you.<P>You may have to wait a little bit of time to even out your feelings before you can compose a proper Plan B letter...your emotions are too high now to say what you need and want to say. I can tell that this letter is not really you...just a lot of hurt right now pouring out.<P><BR>Faye<P><BR>

I agree - be careful of the tone of recriminination in your letter. I'm not a plan B expert, but the letter should actually be full of reinforcements rather than judgemental statements and if you have a copy of SAA - check the one in there and use it as your template. Just a suggestion.<BR>

Recently stumbled on this very detailed Plan A/Plan B information. Check it out!<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000177.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B 101 (2nd Ed.)</A> posted by NSR<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000413.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B 201</A><P>Here is an excerpt:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NSR:<BR>Some issues I'm addressing here are…<BR>1. What are the desired "end results" of Plan B?<BR>2. What are the measures/steps that take us to the "end results"?<BR>3. Common misconceptions<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<<[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chris (CA123):<BR>[B]The first letter was NOT a Plan B letter. YOu are correct it was full of LB's. It's okay to write letters as this BUT DO NOT SEND THEM! It gets your feelings out a little better for YOU to understand and deal with.>>><P>Hmmm. I thought her letter was good. My H got a very similar one right before he came home for good. Then again, my Plan B was of my own making (I hadn't found MB, but had read many books with similar principles). I was at the end of my rope (I thought that was when Plan B was instituted?) I couldn't handle the revolving door anymore (3 false recoveries). I found it necessary to spell out to him exactly how this had affected me, how it had made me feel. In his fog state I don't think he realized the true magnitude his actions were having. I didn't call him names or anything, but he needed to know. Then I told him how much I still loved him, what I had realized about us and our marriage, what steps I had taken and we could take together to make things better. Then I explained what woudl happen if we got divorced. No way in hell was I going to tell him "I would hope he would be happy in his new life" if he chose to go on without me. A statement like that would have nudged him right back into the fog, and been a complete lie. I had to make it clear that his fantasy of us "always being friends" was NOT going to happen, ever. If we had divorced we would never have been "friends". I would have done anything in my power to avoid speaking to or seeing him if at all possible. I think he needed to know all the possible recriminations of his actions. I just laid out the facts. Those facts were what struck him so hard and caused him to make up his mind for good. Once he realized "This is it, she's gone." He was suddenly ready to recommit with all his heart. I guess I didn't do a proper Plan B, but it worked. I think that sometimes things need to be modified to fit our own situations. And it depends on what point we are at. Another false recovery would have killed me. I was completely drained. I needed to lay all the cards on the table and get it over with, one way or the other. Otherwise I woudl have just kept Plan Aing (which I was really good at lol). So in some cases I think it depends on what point the BS is at and where the WS is. <P>

Hi all.<P>Fairy, if maezy sent this letter, it would not be a plan B letter. It would be a different sort of letter that was similar to the one you sent your H. Perhaps it may have the effect yours did, perhaps not, but it still not would be following the MB principles and it would not be a plan B letter.<P>Maezy, I can see how much you hurt and the range of emotions you are feeling right now. Have you contacted your H since that one time you broke plan B? If not, then there is no need to send another letter. If you have and are in contact with him since that one time, then perhaps you should consider another one.<P>Just remember, a plan B letter is a love letter that you write your H. It uses only I statements and tells your H how you feel and what you would like for the future. It does not LB, it does not try to inflict guilt upon your H, and it is not given during a time of anger or severe emotions.<P>Your H already knows most of the stuff you wrote in your first letter. You do not need to tell him... In your second letter, you are giving up, being way too nice for a situation you should not be put in right now...<P>I would suggest using some of the other plan B letters as templates for yours (if you are going to send another one). In it, if you want to say that you accept the decisions he has made for himself and that you are moving on, I think that is okay. But you don't have to say you are happy for him or you wish him the best... I mean, do YOU really?? Judging from your range of emotions I'd say sometimes yes, sometimes no. <P>If you are happy that he chose to be with OW, more power to you, but I couldn't write it... It sounds weak, and you want to show him that you are STRONG. Strong Maezy...<P>Hope this helps even a little.<BR>HbH<BR>

<BR><<Fairy, if maezy sent this letter, it would not be a plan B letter. It would be a different sort of letter that was similar to the one you sent your H. Perhaps it may have the effect yours did, perhaps not, but it still not would be following the MB principles and it would not be a plan B letter.>>><P>I guess I'm a little confused about Plan B. I thought Plan b was an end of the line, last ditch thing? Sort of "Plan A until you can't take it anymore, then Plan B and let the chips fall"? I mean there is nothing else after Plan B is there, except divorce? I'm confused.... I guess I just don't really see how a wishy washy ("I want you to be happy in your new life") type letter would do much to make someone in the fog change much of anything. I would think a very fogged person would figure "Oh okay. She doesn't want contact now, but she'll still be there if I change my mind. And if not we can still be friendly when we get divorced." Maybe my approach worked because my H was almost out of the fog anyway. But if he hadn't been waffling then I probably would have just kept up with Plan A... I'm puzzled because I thought Plan B was basically the end of the line?

fairydust:<P>Plan B is for YOU, not for the WS. It is not meant to try and MAKE your WS DO anything. Absolutely not. If you sent a plan B letter for this purpose, it would backfire on you bigtime!!<P>A plan B letter is basically telling the WS that you are done. You are going on without WS in your life. You have come to a place within yourself where you are able to let go. <P>It is essentially a goodbye love letter. You are saying goodbye, hoping that you can preserve enough love for your WS that someday, if they ever come out of the fog, your love will still be intact and you can try to reconcile.<P>Plan B is only done as a "last ditch effort" to try and preserve the little love you have left. It is not done as a last ditch effort to get the WS to come home. Only the WS can do that, in time, when they are ready.<P>That is why it is so important for Maezy to stay strong in her letter, show her H that he cannot beat her down. She will survive and move on. It's also equally important to use "I" statements so that she is NOT trying to manipulate her H into coming home via the plan B letter. <P>HbH

<<<[QUOTE]Originally posted by hurtbyhubby:<BR>[B]fairydust:<P>Plan B is for YOU, not for the WS. It is not meant to try and MAKE your WS DO anything. Absolutely not. If you sent a plan B letter for this purpose, it would backfire on you bigtime!!<P>A plan B letter is basically telling the WS that you are done. You are going on without WS in your life. You have come to a place within yourself where you are able to let go. >>>><P>Right. That is what I thought I was doing when I gave my H a letter similar to the first one Maezy wrote. I was done, finished, tired, could do no more. It wasn't to try and manipulate him to come home (he did that every other week on his own anyway lol), but to let him know "This is how I feel, this is the way it is, do with it what you may.. I don't want to see or hear from you until you know what you want." He was going to do whatever he wanted to do (he'd already proven that) but I wanted to make everything crystal clear I guess. I had great success with Plan A, it did wonders for my marriage and I learned a lot about myself, BUT there is an unavoidable "doormat" aspect to it. I thought Plan B was the end of that part? I thought it was partially to show the WS that you were through being walked on (not worded that way of course)? I just wonder if, in SOME cases, a WS might see a Plan B letter of a certain type as a kind of "get out of jail free card"?

Fairy, <P>Possibly, some WS's may see it that way. Most of the ones I have read about finally realize that maybe fence-sitting isn't all it's cracked up to be. They may actually LOSE their S because of their actions!! That is scary for most WS's I am sure... Almost all WS's react in some way to let you know that they do NOT approve and that it is not a "get out of jail free card". Have not seen one post here where the WS reacted that way..<P>I would guess that you were rather lucky in that since your H was almost out of the fog, he did NOT take your letter as manipulative or as a major LB. Perhaps he never saw you as this type of person and he actually managed to read your letter the way you intended for it to be read. I'm sure your letter was a good one, it got your point across and your H realized that you were serious.<P>HbH<P><BR>

<B>I guess I just don't really see how a wishy washy ("I want you to be happy in your new life") type letter would do much to make someone in the fog change much of anything.</B><BR>You don’t tell them “I want you to be happy in your new life“ in the letter.<P>You tell them, “I want US to be happy together but I cannot continue ANY relationship with you until you end the affair.<P><B>I would think a very fogged person would figure "Oh okay. She doesn't want contact now, but she'll still be there if I change my mind.</B><BR>Sort of. But you do not give them a time line. So maybe they wake up before its over, maybe not.<P><B>Maybe my approach worked because my H was almost out of the fog anyway.</B><BR>Your approach is along the line of Dobsons “tough Love.” An ultimatum of sorts.<P><B>I'm puzzled because I thought Plan B was basically the end of the line?</B><BR>Plan B means you are at the end of your rope in trying to deal with it, i.e. you’re not going to deal with him or meet ANY of his needs anynore.<P>In Plan B, you set a time line for yourself and DO NOT reveal it nor even discuss there is a time frame.<P>When it comes, your spouse will either return or you will divorce them. One of the effects of Plan B is to be able to end the marriage and save yourself much of the emotional distress.<P>MB principles are designed to get you to take responsibility for your own actions, NOT to try to get the other person to accept the blame.<P><B>I thought it was partially to show the WS that you were through being walked on (not worded that way of course)?</B><BR>It is to tell the spouse you are tired of being hurt by their continued affair/actions.<P><B>I just wonder if, in SOME cases, a WS might see a Plan B letter of a certain type as a kind of "get out of jail free card"?</B><BR>I imagine some do see it that way. However, a marriage is about giving, not getting. Hopefully after the affair is over and the marriage is on the way to restoration, the ws will understand how much you did give, even in the face of total adversity from them and want to give again to you.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Maezy, thanks for starting this thread. It is very interesting. I wish I could have replied sooner, but I had a lot of trouble getting to MB forums for several days - I don't know whether it was me or MB.<P>I found that it was very helpful to write a letter, but not give it. I could then think about it - ususally the letter was no longer what I wanted to say after a few days. <P>I wish you luck with your letter!