hey everyone...<P>I am struggling with an issue...my H is home...most definitely not of his own choosing...he has said a couple of times that he is "not here because he wants to be."<P>As you know there were dozens of calls to OW (EA/PA) and Young-Un (EA) last month...<P>He is letting me 'kiss' him, but he never initiates...he only reaches out to me in bed...cuddles me when we are sleeping...several times I have awakened to find him clutching me tightly. Our S#X life rocks, BTW...more frequency and intensity than before A...which I find disconcerting...but then, I have been told it is different for men...<P>He never responds to "I love you," except to say "okay" or "yeah." And, he took his ring off about three weeks ago and says he will not put it back on.<P>So I keep asking myself "What am I doing?" How do I continue this by myself...I feel guilty because I know so many of you would just like your WS home...mine is, but I want more...<P>I have made HUGE changes in myself...he has told me he sees them...I am quieter...no more rages...no more complaining and nagging...but he recognizes I am having trouble with the 'control' thing...THAT is sooo hard...I want him to put his ring on...I want him to tell me he loves me...<I>(yeah, I know...he's got to mean it...and he probably doesn't feel like he does...so why should I want it if he doesn't mean it...)</I><P>And, like so many BS's, I struggle with not allowing myself to become close to anyone else. That's probably why I am so vehement when I post to you about it...it lurks within me...this urge to be with someone <B>who wants to be with me.</B><P>I know you don't have answers...but it's been on my mind...and you all usually have such nice words of wisdom...<P>Thanks,<BR>Cali<P><P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Hi Cali-<BR>I know how you are feeling. My H is home too but our life sounds just like yours. H also took ring off. Says he jammed his finger playing b-ball so I'll just have to wait and see. It is hard though. It has always bothered me when he didn't wear it. He always said tho--" so you think if I don't have a ring then we aren't married?" Like you said things are different for men than women.<P>On the S3X issue I guess we just have to keep letting them know that we love them and still want them. It is hard to always do the initating. My H says its about time. Our life like yours is better and more intense. Whats up with that?? YOu'd think it would be the other way.<P>We are fortunate that our Hs are home. I also want more, but I guess we have to take one day at a time and hope and pray that more will be here soon.<P>If your H is noticing the 'change" in you then maybe it will only be a matter of time before he realizes what he could be losing. <P>Keep the faith. Stay strong!! I'll be checking to see how things are going.-----KID

I know what u mean... my situation is a little different becasue we both had A's, although I will admit mine was way more 'disrespectful' as he says... he came to california and decided that he did want me to come with him so we could come out here and start a new life together away from everyone and everything... since we got here we have separate bedrooms (although he wants me to sleep with him in his room) and he has not wore his ring in two months either.. he says why should i? I don't feel that way and he says that he doens't want to be married... at times he actually talks and and we have a good time but then it's like he thinks "oh yeah i'm suppose to be closed off from her"... at night often I find myself wrapped up in his arms or him caressing me.. I feel the same way "what am I doing" people keep telling me that I got to not only make him happy but you got to start with yourself.. all I want is for him to reach over and grab my hand or tell me he loves me... it's like I live for the times that he does these things... I don't know if you've read any of my posts but he told me to leave so I am now packing my stuff to go home.. which is NOT what I want to do but hopefully the time will let him see that maybe he still is IN love with me and just not loves' me... I just find it hard to believe when acts at times the way he does... also you talked about the sex life now... I know when he found out about me and I found out about him he was the same way.. constantly.. he would just touch me and it would lead to it... I also thought that was strange.. now however it's like once every two weeks.. that's hard when it went to almost everyday to this... good luck with the situation and hang in there... keep me updated..

KID---<P>Would you believe my H tells the same story as to why he took off his ring? jammed his finger playing basketball...go figure...Thanks...this made me really chuckle...<P>patientlyconfused...<P>I will look up your posts...I am sorry to say I have not seen many of them...I know this is a difficult time...we humans are not very nice to each other...I will be thinking of you...<P>Cali

Cali:<P>I'm sorry if I sound too harsh here... but why is it that he is still home? <P>I know I haven't been keeping up to date on many stories here lately... but the last I remember, you had had enough, and were looking for the strength to move into plan b. What happened with that?<P>You are obviously hurting so deeply still. It seems to me that you need to go to plan b to save yourself anymore hurt. IMO, although I can totally relate to the SF need... is that all you're getting from him? Because, as rude as this sounds, there are other ways to get that without involving another person (including your H).<P>I'm guessing that I've missed an important thread on your situation... so please, can you tell me what I missed?<P>Take care,<BR>Karen<BR>

Topie...<P>In early August, there was a 'traumatic' event regarding two of our boys...I don't feel comfortable posting the exact details, but I think it shook my H up, and he feels the need to stay home to be with them...<P>Additionally, I was using poor judgment and pulled the 'jealousy' card...I let him know someone else was interested in me and had invited me away for a weekend...he lost his mind...I told him that something had to change...that I wasn't willing to live like we were...that's when he opened up enough for kissing...holding hands...again...<P>You really did get to the heart of it, though...it has always boiled down to SF...our relationship started that way...and as I read the latest OPRAH magazine, I doubt that we ever got really intimate...we didn't even have a strong EA before our own PA...<P>Cali

Thanks for clearing that up for me I remember reading about the weekend away now too.<P>Are you going to put some sort of time limit on his staying? How could it possibly be the most beneficial situation for him to be there, if he isn't 'all' there? (thinking of Orchid's 1/2 a husband theory).<P>I'm just worried about seeing you get more hurt than you've already been. You have given so much of yourself and are getting treated like crap in return. It's just not right. All we care about here is your happiness. I just want to see you show your strength to you H, like you've shown on here.<P>And on another note... sex is not love. There is a huge difference. Remember that.<P>Karen<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>...my H is home...most definitely not of his own choosing...he has said a couple of times that he is "not here because he wants to be."</B> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Cali,<BR> I have followed your thread with much interest because you are such a deeply spiritual person, and obviously love your H very VERY much.<P>Our stories are not very much alike, however, so I don't know if my perspective will be of much use to you. I would just like to add that at least your H is HOME!! What i mean, not a flame, is: is he still going to "her"? Either the original one or now the "young-'un?"<P>If not, but is only talking on phone, then maybe he IS trying to "break away" and needs more time to disentangle himself....I know, I know, I'm going to get majorly flamed for saying "give him time to break it off in his own way, and in his own time..." I KNOW that's not very MB.... but the line he said about "I'm not here cause I want to be..." made me think he's just still in the WS fog following an A, and they still haven't truly committed to M, but know the A isn't going to work, either. It sounds to me like this is where he might be now.<P>My point is that IF he's home, totally HOME, and only talks on the phone occasionally, like several times a day (sounds like SadNLonely!) then I would say just give him more time to watch and see if he comes around a little more, when more of the fog lifts.<P>If he doesn't seem to change, seems MORE "involved" (or status quo) w/either OW, then I would vote to go to Plan B, for YOUR OWN sake! I think you've put up with waaaay enough.<P>My .02 and that's all it's worth! <P>Lupo<BR>

Hi Cali. Karen gave you some awesome advice.<P>Do you know if the phone is the only contact, or is there still more? Any chance of getting him to go to a MC? <P>I understand what you mean about OM. Don't do it, it sounds like there is someone in particular that you have been thinking about. I knew as soon as I starting "thinking" about this OP in THAT way, I had to end all contact. You may want to consider it, even if nothing has happened, it will help to keep you focused.<P>You, like me, given our pasts, most likely confuse sex with love. I know I do and did alot. I FELT loved when we had sex, but sometimes for my H, it was just sex. Now, I refuse to "have sex", I will only "make love" to my H. Although, if you saw my last post, I stopped that altogether as well, because I need to deal with my past and the being molested and stuff... I have HUGE issues with sex I need to deal with them, otherwise I will never be able to forgive me H...<P>You too?<P>Perhaps you should seek a C on your own for now. They will help (and will also help in dealing with your sons issues). There are free ones if you don't have insurance. Make an appointment now even if you are not sure. It usually takes a few weeks to get into those. If you wait until you are ready, it will feel like forever.<P>Good luck. You know how I feel about your H being home. I think he needs to leave and go figure things out for himself...<P>HbH

Cali...<P>I know you love your H and I know how much. I have seen it here, and felt it! I guess I am angered that he "uses" you, IMHO. He knows you love him dearly, yet he reciprocates with nothing but S3X? He knows you want him near you, but gives you no hope, except when you are asleep?<P>I often ask why about alot of things, and when I find there is no answer, I realize it is out of fear that my motivations lie. Fear of being alone, fear of rejection, fear of failure, fear, fear, fear...you pick which one?? You have said you allow no one to get close? Fear of seeking and finding that someone else may care enough to care will throw your situation in a tiz, I am afraid, so you are smart to stay away from that situation, but wanting to be close to someone that wants to be close to you and receiving nothing in return smacks of disaster. He has OW, YoungUn and You?? You say you are controlling? (Or he manipulates it into the conversation playing on your guilt and keeping you in your place?) So it is ok for him to have and do what he wants and since you voice your EN, you are controlling? I strongly disagree...you have made so many changes and concessions to fill his love bank, while the withdrawals in yours continue. If I were an accountant, I would say you are headed for bankruptcy soon!! You do deserve better. I realize he is *giving in* by allowing more kissing, but I hope the playing field levels out a bit more for you soon, or you could find the chasm in your heart growing wider. I truly hope that doesnt happen cuz you sure dont deserve it!! Please understand that I am not bashing your husband in any way shape or form, but I just hate to see what is happening to friends like you and WAT and others in here that don't deserve the treatment being continued, let alone that it happened in the first place. I apologize if this sounds angry or condescending. It was not supposed to. It was supposed to sound supportive of who you are.<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

Cali,<P>What have you learned so far? That s3x and love are not always on the same level. Should it be? Is it for you? If not for H, why not? <P>Would he like to know that you can give s3x and not love him either? Would that be ok for him? Hm..... he is saying these things which he construes in his mind as 'true' and it hurts you. Then he says he doesn't want to hurt you but then proceeds to do so? He is conducting himself in a disrespectful manner. <P>Yep, mine did also. You know what? Even they get tired of that gig after a while. Now you have a choice let this foolishness play itself out until they are too pooped to put up this macho 'I can have s3x w/o having to say or show that I love you' stupidty or you can force his cards and he will revolt just out of stubborness. Either way it is stupid for him and he is too prideful to admit it. <P>Should you let him know that he can only strut with this pride soo long and then the feathers start to fall off? Is that what he wants? To be exposed and naked in the eyes of all that behold him, a pitiful man who stepped out on his family. You are not alone in this situation. I am speaking from what I am seeing in my home right now. <P>Time of reconning? Maybe. Coming out of the fog? Could be? Permanent change for the better? Not sure yet. Need more proof. See this time, I am not jumping up and down over every piece of advancement. I am learning to watch. It is hard Cali, our H's have to prove they can be and want to be a valuable contributing family member. We do not serve them, family is a shared relatioship not a monarchy.<P>Retain your respect. Demonstrate to your children the need to be respectful, loving and kind. Yes even little boys can do that. Our children can help our H's learn life's lessons sometimes better than we can. Utilize their talents. <P>My H is having to help our son have an attitude adjustment. Hm..... similar adjustment to what H needs. Ahhh..... this helped H reflect. Our son was quick to note that dad can do it, why can't I attitude. Hm..... more points to ponder. H's fits of anger were noticeable. Crazy for him to think that all the yelling would go unnoticed. Even if it was not real loud, if you are a quiet type of guy and raise your voice a few times, people notice. <P>Just my thoughts Cali, hate to say that rough waters still lie ahead but I think they do. However, the will smooth out down the way..... you hang in there. ok?<P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

I guess it always comes down to your frustration level. I'm the total "glass is half full person" so I'm encouraged by any little change. The question that comes to mind is, "How does the way he is now compare to his best?" <P>You've certainly changed yourself enough that I think the bar has been raised. How far does he have to go to get there from his previous best?<P>Jeffers

You know, I read over your posts and I am struck that it is not anger, nor frustration that I feel...it is utter sadness...sadness that two intelligent people closed themselves off to each other and let a promising relationship go fallow.<P>I talked to my H tonight...cried some...but did not plead, nor beg...I said some heartfelt things...somethings that have been left unsaid by me for 14 years...<P>I am always struck that I have always felt comfortable with this man...always felt physically safe with him...yet could not reveal myself emotionally to him, nor him to me...<P>I said some things to him that I have discerned about him and relationships and discovered I was very close to the mark...I think it surprised him and he has discovered that I was listening more closely than he expected...As for me...I was a blank book...I had had no real relationships prior to H...that was part of the problem...I looked to him to lead me...but could not 'talk' to him...what a cunundrum!<P>His family communication style is avoidance...my family's style is rage then keep it secret...(verbal/emotional abuse...physical abuse started after I went to college)...I talked about that with him...I think we are starting to see how our individual styles and family upbringings have affected our marriage...<P>Also, thank you WS's who post to me...I explained the things I 'talk' about with you...I talked to him how I have come to understand each of you and your pain...I told him that I understood the pain he was going through...big surprise on his face...he didn't believe me until I gave him specific examples...<P>Boy...a MC would sure be nice to negotiate this mine field...he just won't agree to it after that fiasco this summer...but I am feeling more hopeful than I did this morning...we both just have a lot to prove to one another...<P>I gave him the Ruiz books I have been 'saving' for him and he took them...<P>Trust...Believe...Let God...<P>Cali<P><P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Cali,<P>Just got to read your post.<P>You said: That's probably why I am so vehement when I post to you about it...it lurks within me...this urge to be with someone who wants to be with me.<P>I know how that feels <<<<<<hugs>>>>>> for you. I know I put myself in a position where it could happen and then I let it happen. If you don't want this it's easy to avoid. The problem of PlanAing is that it's a lonely path with few or no rewards.<P>take care of yourself,<P>- Freddy<P>