Sigh....<P>So it was a test. I knew I shouldn't have hit the refresh button in the middle of writing my post. Well, I'll have to turn my paper in anyway and beg the teacher to please accept it....<BR>------------------<P>I don't think I've ever had a true soulmate. That said, I did have an intense relationship that started in Junior High (didn't have Middle Schools in MI back then) and lasted until I met W (I waffled between them for a while). <P>We were a couple for about 4 years. Did everything together, finished each others sentences (boy, talk about images I shouldn't revisiting right now). But, I always held something back (exactly the same with my W). She would push for deep feelings and I would clam up, she would say she loved me and I would agree (yeah, she was the aggressor - like my W!)<P>If I added up all the close friends I've had (half dozen or so) they might collectively add up to a soulmate. I revealed different pieces to each person... no one knew the whole story.<P>My guess at why I can't reveal myself would be fear of scaring them away. I'm beginning to think (thanks, Miguel) that I haven't totally accepted myself with all my flaws, therefore I have good reason to think others might not either. Best to reveal only the pieces that I'm o.k. with, not the true core.<P>I'm certain that if I finally reveal all to someone and they accept me for what I am -- they would essentially be a soulmate. At that point I would feel able to share anything with them. I want that person to be my W. <P>I worry that I might "test the waters" with someone that I care less about -- like an internet aquaintance, for instance. I have a strong desire to tell someone, even knowing what might happen. Women occasionally try to draw me out in chat rooms and it scares the heck out of me (and I usually flee), but it also intrigues me. <P>I think this is what happened to my W. I saw how easy (and quick) it was.<P>So, I have revealed the pieces that my W is missing on this forum instead. Hoping that it helps break down my barriers to telling her directly. I'm becoming convinced that I'm not a bad person at heart after all. Many people here seem to share similar feelings... and I like everyone here....<P>Jeffers<P>

Cali, I don't think snobird necessarily means rules vs feelings means bs vs ws, could go either way. She seems to be making note of something we argue (discuss) all the time in human relationships by various names..... (ethics, vows, duty, committment, promises, morality, love, true love, in-love, soulmate, oneflesh, hooked at the hip etc.). This confused me for a while too, but I think it works like this. Human beings process information two ways, one is cognitively...logic, reason, cause and effect, etc.... and one is intuitively, emotion, hunches, feelings, and such. Some things lend themselves to being assessed more one way or the other...clearly we want airplanes designed very cognitively, but we pretty much live our lives intuitively (what we like in art, music, fashion, lifestyle, and pretty much freinds as well). There is a lot of stuff in the middle too, clearly we want a very cognitive doctor, but we also want one that has good intuition also, ditto teachers, law enforcement, and many other human activities. The point being as human beings we have 2 fairly distinct ways of processing information and acting on it, idealy our choices reflect agreement with those 2 methods (and that should be the goal of our decision process, to reach internal agreement). The trick is what to do when we have a major conflict. That can only mean something is seriously wrong with our assessment of our circumstances, and if we cannot find resolution (agreement) we are in deep doodoo, cause we must choose a path....either one of logic, or one of feeling. Some people default to logic, and some to feeling, and either way can serve a ws or a bs. A logical ws may talk themself into or out of marriage (ditto a bs), a feeling ws may also talk themself into or out of (usually based on guilt vs happiness) a marriage, ditto a bs (usually based on anger vs fear). No one will go entirely with one method, but I think the weight we give each is part of what leads to conflicting opinions here, and on marital issues in general.<P>The "rules" crowd almost 100% agree they do not want to be married to someone who does not love them, but they do require long, vigorous, sustained efforts at marriage before throwing in the towel, and they want clear reasons why it supposedly does not work. The feeling crowd says marriage is about in-love, and they feel a marriage must be completely selfishly chosen, is the one thing you should be absolutely honest re your feelings about, and not enter (or stay) unless you want to wake up next to that person more than life itself, that you are literally incomplete without that connection. They can't explain it, but they know it when they see it (and when they don't see it). And most importantly they realize it has to be reciprocal, in-love cannot be unilateral, it is a synergy of two who feel the same. They feel despite sound rational reasons to be married, financial, caring, kids, history, promises, social/family, even friendship, that unless you are in-love you should not be married.<P>The tradgedy comes when 2 people are married, treat each other well, have kids, have made a life, no one is abusive, alcoholic, etc, and are both decent responsible people...but, one (or both) realize they will never be in-love.....what to do? The one who is willing to settle for this (cause that is a choice) is heartbroken by the one who is unwilling to settle....or the one who is unwilling to settle, stays rather than hurt the other, but dies somewhere deep inside giving up their need for the one they fit in that special way. And of course the awakening and searching for this understanding is traumatic for all whether it involves an A or not (but seems often it does, for obvious reasons I think). Sometimes they come to realize they are both already married to the "one", and all is well, no not well, wonderful, terrific. But often despite all the effort and soul-searching one (or both) realize they are not married to the right one (because we do such a poor job of mate selection, relying almost exclusively on emotion, which is a huge mistake), and the 2 individuals have some hard choices to make.<P>Is much easier when someone is clearly a poor marital partner. Narcissitic, alcoholic, abusive, controlling and one can justify rationally the feelings of not wanting the marriage, but is so sad, when there is no really big problem, and it simply is a matter of I am not in-love with you, such rejection is so awful, but what does one do if it is the truth? And therein lies much of the conflict here, some say you deny the feelings, you just label em wrong, and make a decision to love, in short completely ignore your intuition, the other 1/2 of who you are, and go with the other 1/2 which everyone you know is doing their dardest to convince you (logically) to stay married...not for your sake so much, as because that is their agenda, their beliefs, the ultimate expression of knowing what you need better than you do...scarey, and the reason why so many people who remain married are not particularly happy.<P>The only way IMO people should be married is by honoring the rule of radical honesty, and choosing enthusiastically (poja) to be married, that means rationally AND emotionally there is no conflict. This requires a level of honesty few are willing to make. For some it satisfies their internal filters much more to look for external validation, either in religion or ethics (essentailly approval of the tribe), than it does to satisfy their hearts. To each their own, and to each of us the consequences of our choices, but IMO, marriage is a matter of the heart.... and the mind... and when both are in agreement, and reciprocated in kind, you have the in-love, the soulmate, the oneflesh ... most claim they seek.

I revealed different pieces to each person... no one knew the whole story.<BR><<<<<<<My guess at why I can't reveal myself would be fear of scaring them away. I'm beginning to think (thanks, Miguel) that I haven't totally accepted myself with all my flaws, therefore I have good reason to think others might not either. Best to reveal only the pieces that I'm o.k. with, not the true core.>>>>>>><P>I think my H was like this too. He hid certain parts of himself from everyone. I think initially it made him nervous when he realized how much I understood him. When I suspected he was haivng an A (within a week after it started) I also knew exactly who it was. When everythig blew up and he moved out he said "I hate it that you know me so well." He wasn't willing to accept certain parts of himself and wasn't ready to face them. It was much easier to run to someone who was clueless about his flaws. As time went by and everything became a big mess I kept giving him things to read. I was stunned when he came to me (this was towards the end of the A) and told me how much he appreciated all the things I'd given him and how much he was realizing about himself. He understood how his personality traits (confilct avoider, passive aggressive, bury everything) actually caused him more stress. He was thankful for my help and realized that Iwas okay with knowing the negative parts. I wasn't going anywhere, even knowing that he wasn't perfect. That was a big key to our newfound communication.

I don't think I get your implications Cali.<P>Are you trying to connect that those who believe in a soul-mate connection are immature? Because you experienced such a thing at a young age?<P>Personally looks and feels like a disrespectful judgement.<P>And I seriously doubt that you'll find it split amongst BS/WS lines. I myself don't believe in it.<P>I tend to agree more with SnL's comments on the subject about human bonding. There are lots of people who you connect with. It takes something unique and special to cause the "love" spark. But I don't believe there is only one person in the universe I could spark with.<P>And I've had the intense (eeiry) connections -- knowing thoughts, completing sentences, just knowing things with both H and OM. I chalk that up to more of a psychic connection rather than being "soul-mates".<P>

No disrespectful judgment done intentionally...<P>Just tired of the soulmate thing...the 'fit' thing...<P>I can't control my H or anyone else...but I can prod thinking...<P>prod...prod...prod...<P>Cali

I agree with SnL here, Cali,<P>You have found your soulmate in your husband, but it is not a complete connection, or he has lost the spark. As much as a marriage needs to be 100% effort for both parties, so does love and affection. You still have the 100% (probably 150% love since you are working so hard at this), but he sounds like he has 'changed his mind', probably just below the 50% line.<P>If he really did sing to you at your wedding, write you tons of special cards, profess his undying love to you in the past, well, you are right, he will probably realize it and see that you are his soulmate. Keep on loving him, and he will find it impossible to resent you! I know it works, it happened to me. <P>If he still realizes later that he is unable to relight the spark that drove him to you originally, then you have a problem. BUT, on a happy note, from the sounds of it, to me, he has many reasons to come back-- I don't believe you can undo a soul-mate. If he believed it once, he will see it again.<P>Hang in there,<P>-V<P>*Aside:The only difference for me is that I was never able to write those special cards, say the special things, ever, which still makes me still doubt my 'love' for my wife. <P>My W was surely the relationship aggressor, which I used to resent, but now I respect, since I see that she is putting in a lot of hard work. It is an excellent quality to have in a wife! The pain for me is that all the cards and sayings and songs all came naturally to me with the OW. Damn! There was a huge click between us! It was reciprocated so well, too. That is what I want with my wife. It is still one-sided between us, but getting better.

In discussions aound the time of d-day my WSH said that he felt the OW was his soulmate. He admits he felt the same way about me as our relationship grew and developed. He now after 2 yers in recovery feels that I am once again his true soulmate. We have, for most of our marriage, with the exception of several bad, discontented years, and even at moments during and despite those years, always enjoyed that "comfort' with each other, that feeling that it is "right" and that we are with the best person for each other.<P>He developed these same soulmate feelings for OW however, when he took his focus off of his marriage and went with what was making him "feel" good. We were at those "bumpy, puddley" places on the dirt road of marriage and to a fork we had come. To take a new path meant he could avoid what had become work. Our marriage had reached a point where it was not "easy" and the relationship with OW most certainly was. Therein lies the struggle with temptation. Satan doesn't necessarily act so obviously, he's a liar first and foremost, and he works primarily through deception and instigating doubt.He doesn't always tell outright obvious lies for there he would have a difficult time ensnaring us. We would be able to see a bold, obvious lie and be alerted. No he's much, much smarter than that, he lays out some truth but throws in the lie long down the road when we are already so emotionally involved that we can't see the way back. Not only can we not see the way back ,getting there would take so much effort and work that we often can't imagine bringing ourselves to the point of mustering the fortitude to make it back. Then he throws in the doubt again and makes us wonder if it is even worth it to try to make our way back, is there anything back there worth salvaging.<P>An affair is a classical picture of how Satan works, his modus operandi, if you will. It doesn't matter if the affair results due to the fact that the marriage was stressed and not functioning well or because OP just happened to come into your life and you "clicked" with the soulmate thing right off the bat. It starts with questioning whether our marriage relationship can bring us the happiness and contentness we want, desire and think we deserve. There the seeds of doubt are sown. Satan has then accomplished his first objective, sow doubt.<P>Once we begin to doubt the marriage relationship and it's ability to fulfill us, we can come up with all kinds of reasons why we should see, talk to and spend time with the OP. One might even be that OP is "helping" us with the problems in our marriage, that they are a friend who cares about us and wants to help us see all perspectives so we can see the "whole" picture and come to the best decision. It is a simple fact that where we expend time and energy and emotion ,we will develop an attatchment.At a time when we are feeling discontent with our spouse it is easy to put our energy and focus elsewhere for relief and solice, not to mention excitement and wonder.<P>One thing I see WS's here not realizing or acknowledging in all their fond thoughts and memories of OP is that those relationships have not had the consequence of enduring the day in and day out mundaneness of day to day living that we live with our spouses. There is where Satan catches us with a lie. In an affair there is no thought of who will do the laundry, who will change a poopy diaper and wipe up the vomit,who will shop and cook and prepare the meals, who will cut the grass and fix the leaky toilet. There is no thought of how to best discipline the children, or who's relative to go see, or what vacation to take. There is no thought of does OP pick up after themselves or have a willingness to help out when I'm sick or go on for days in a brooding mood if they don't get their way. No, in an affair we put on our best face, we are loving and engaging and accommodating, we are a best friend, always wiling to go out of our way to bring happiness and joy and comfort to our beloved soulmate. It's a lie, for the reality of life and it's tediousness and mundaneness are not interjected into the affair relationship. That is how we could have at one time "connected " with our spouse and then "unconnect" only to "connect" with another with whom we are shielded from the day to day realities of living with someone. Satan is just hoping we will doubt long enough and hard enough, and that the emotion of the new relationship will be ecstatic enough to ensnare us into the bigger lie that leaving our marriage relationship will ultimately bring us "true" happiness.<P>The truth is that the only relationship that can bring us "true" happiness and contentedness is a deep personal relationship and walk with God that goes beyond the bounds of any religion. God isn't about religion,He's about a relationship. We will be disappointed in all relationships married or otherwise unless we learn first to have a relationship with God for no other human being can satisfy our spiritual being. Does Satan want us to realize this? Hell no! He wants us far, far ,far from any kind of realization that it's a relationship with God that we need to satisfy us. Satan would much rather have us believe that it is a relationship with another human being that can fully satisfy us. That is an unrealistic expectation to put on any mere human being and if we do so we will always be disappointed somewhere along the line. That is Satan's big lie.<P>So give that affair relationship the benefit/consequence of daily life and all of it's trials and tribulations and no doubt it will lose some of it's sparkle.It can't help but lose some sparkle, that is simply the reality of day to day life,nothing is ALWAYS good. There are sprinklings of disappointment, anger, hurt feelings, discontent ( and on and on) in all relationships exposed to the reality of life on a day in and day out basis when living together. The truth is, the grass is greener where it is watered.<P>So to WSs out there who want to recover your marriages and despite that desire, insist on hanging onto the feelings of wonder and excitement and soulmate connectedness that is/was your affair, I say you are doing yourself and your marriages a great disservice. You are making your recovery harder than it has to be. I urge you to let go of the unreality an affair relationship is and thoughtfully interjected reality and tediousness and mundaneness into it, for that is real, unavoidable life. Your affair relationships, if allowed to become your primary relationship, will not somehow magically escape the touch of real life and you will once again be disillusioned as is unavoidable in all human relationships. Yes, love is a choice.<P><BR> <P><BR> <P><BR> <BR>

fairydust:<P>My personality traits are causing me lots of stress right now. I am a conflict avoider/internalizer (not pass. agg. though). My W understands me all too well -- at least to the extent of knowing my moods, etc. She just doesn't know why.<P>I'm pretty sure she could handle anything I could tell her, but... scary stuff. It helps to hear encouraging words from others.<P>Cali:<P>Ouch, ouch, ouch.<P>I do believe in soulmates -- at least in the limited way I defined them. Course, I'm an expert since I've never had one. <P>My W had one. She didn't call him that, but it fits my description. And I "Want what she's having", if you know what I mean. Only with her. <P>I agree with what you say in that it's obviously not all there is to love and marriage because she gave it up for us and our family! Or maybe that was her "ethical" OM's doing. But that's another story.<P><BR>I'm not sure my idea of soulmates has anything to do with "fit". Although, if someone refused to accept me after knowing all there is, then I guess I could say we didn't "fit".<P>Jeffers<BR>