Ok, I just checked our e-mail on our AOL account and she erased several e-mails. This is hard to keep this short having to explain everything, but I'll try to give a brief summery. <P>The e-mails she erased were to and from a long time friend who no longer lives in our area. These e-mails were the ones that led me to believe she was still lying about more As, and in turn how I confronted her a week ago and she admitted to 3 more As.<P>Ok, my point, she never earases sent mail, and I looked today and there were 3 e-mails sent to him still in the sent box yesterday. Today there was only one. I looked in the in box and looked for the one he had sent back and it also was earased. I then went into the recently deleted mail, and it wasn't there. I don't or can't believe that it just happended that only his mails were deleted from all of those areas and she claims not to have deleted them That only makes me feel she is hiding something.<P>I just talked or should I say argued with her over the phone and she denies deleting any of the mail from the sent box. I know some of you will say just let it go, but I just can't. I want to move on with no more lies. I don't want to get 3 more months into this and learn more again. I would rather leave her now rather than go through this a thrid time. <P>Is there a way to retrieve permanently deleted mail? If not how do I believe she is telling the truth? I am having a hard time because it seems everytime I have this gut feeling it is correct, at least so far. I don't want there to be more for her to tell, but I don't want to continue if there is something she isn't telling me.

I already suggested this once, but maybe got lost in the shuffle. IMO any bs has an absolute right to request a polygraph exam of a ws who claims to be choosing recovery and extraordinary precautions. Stop tormenting yourself sem, get the exam, ask all the questions, and make your choices.

SnL,<P>Thanks you didn't read my reply to that when you suggested it on our thread on recovery. I have taken several polygraph test in my life and I have no faith in them, they can either be inacurate to either side truthful or untruthful, either way can really mess things up. The first time I took one I was asked 10 basic questions in different orders and they were asked differently each time.<P>I was found untruthful on 9 out of 10 of those basic questions. I went to the department I was trying for and asked to retake it to prove I wasn't lying. I had to pay for it myself. The second time I came up untruthful on 3 out of the same 10 basic questions. I did not chang any of my answers and I was telling the truth as honestly as I could. I found it funny that the only one I was truthful on the first time was found untruthful the second time.<P>I am sorry this was so long, I feel I needed to explain why a polygraph test isn't a good idea for anyone. It can only cause more problems, and you are putting your faith in a machine that has been proven to be very inacurate.

To retrieve recently erased stuff, search on the net for Recovery4all...you can download a small portion for free, and it can retrieve small files.<P>Do you really want to see this stuff, though? Ask that before you do it, I have heard it can just kill you.<P>love and light,<P>Jacky

Thank you Nina too, I actually remember someone posting that websight a while back and I went through and searched through and found it. I downloaded it a few minutes ago and I can't figure out how to bring up e-mails, do you know the secret? I am not a very knowledgable computer person and I could use some help with that. <P>Yes I have thought about it, I know I can handle anything thrown at me at this point. Good question though, If I didn't already know about the other As I think I would be seriously thinking I shouldn't, but with all this, another A or two won't matter much now. I just want to know the truth either way.

I can't remember....but the post I think I got the info was called "Help I trashed my email" or something similar...I got lots of help there. The thing is there were posters there who were obviously up on computer stuff, and you could ask them directly in a separate post. BTW I never got the time to fix the email, now that's his job .<P>Should I bring this up...you're wife is probably reading this, and so she knows you are going to find the stuff anyway, do you want to ask her again to be honest before you do?<P>Just a thought.<P>Jacky

bummer sem, I thought the poly was a good tool for other than pathologic liars.... <P>I know this is so hard. My wife has said the same to me, feels can't trust me, thinking back to other times I have been out of town, or whatever.... I don't know what to do to convince her, there is nothing else to tell. My first thought at your post was just more paranoia, my w does not even bother looking at my stuff, so I am forever erasing and updating things. If one was from some suspicious source who knows what she might think. This morning I got grilled cause there was a missed call alert on cell phone late last night (a time I often talked to ow). I knew there was nothing to it, and after awhile we figured out it was my w that had forwarded the phone to me earlier in the day, and if you never do anything on the phone, the alert stays there, but jeez...ya know?<P>Still that the emails involved A issues only, and she seems to have no real explanation seems a bit disconcerting. I hate to suggest it, she seems so sincere (and not saying she isn't) but one can't help but wonder if there was a much more recent A she has ended, but is terrified to tell you about. One of the worst rationalizations ws do, is think if they just stop an A, and commit themselves, but do not tell, it will make no difference. Of course you (and she) already know that is not true. I got no ideas, but maybe you could promise you would take no action for 6 months, regardless of any more lies, but the amnesty period is over in 48 hrs, and if she is lieing and you find out, it is hard to imagine how you could ever find the will to trust her again (effectively ending the M). But you must know in your heart you could do that kind of tough love, love her, but leave her. This is the soul searing stuff that makes or breaks us, she has to tell for her own sake, be totally vulnerable to you, risk losing everything with the whole truth, and if she says there is no more (and explains the email stuff) then you must accept that is the truth, and make yourself vulnerable again..... putting your life in her hands. What do you really want sem? Certainty, gaurantees, or vulnerability? what do you think love looks like?

SEM<P>I am with AOL as well. On the top left hand side click on "email centre". There you will find "personal filing cabinet", Click on this and all emails received and sent will be stored in there, even if they have been deleted previously. This is where i found all my H and OW emails over a period of 3 months. It was very unfortunate that i did but at least it confirmed i wasnt "crazy". My H of course was not aware of this section of AOL. Had he been im sure he would have delete all emails stored in there.<BR>Hope this helps!<BR>Take care<BR>TOS<BR>

SEM,<P>I got a couple of people looking into the recovery4all thing, vb_guy has already posted he can't help, and I read that AbandonedDAD has gone to bed, so it will be some time before you hear from him.<P>Jacky<P>Here's that link I was talking about: <BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/004069.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/004069.html</A> <p>[This message has been edited by Nina too (edited September 23, 2001).]

Jacky, I downloaded recovery4all, because the beginning of the turmoil I am now in started when I asked my husband to show me his email. he raced upstairs to erase it from yahoo.com and then the next day he gave me the password to read his email. He was viewing the emails he erased from my computer when he erased them from yahoo mail This was a few weeks back. I am hopeful that I might be able to find what was erased, can you help. I opened some old files, but have yet to open any old email from yahoo> thanks, lisa faithfullywaiting <P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nina too:<BR><B>To retrieve recently erased stuff, search on the net for Recovery4all...you can download a small portion for free, and it can retrieve small files.<P>Do you really want to see this stuff, though? Ask that before you do it, I have heard it can just kill you.<P>love and light,<P>Jacky</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Ok This hurts my feelings. Ya I went into AOl and I erased the recent JUNK mail, but i never did go into the old mail. I honestly don't even know what SEM is talking about. I would do a poygraph if they were actullay reliable, but they are a hoax and a big waste of money. I understand that Sem can't believe a word a say or trust me but come on. this is to much. I feel like I am playing a mind game. I know I'm not, but this is hard to comprehend. Why would I lie about this???? I don't want to be blamed for something I didn't do. I love you SEM, and I am trying hard to work on this, I feel like i'm bending over back wards, just to get a slap in the face. I am willing to do anything for you. Why would I lie. I don't even know what your talking about.

hey ks, I was waiting for that post to appear, and I know EXACTLY how you feel, as does most ws I suppose. But ya gotta remember, it is not about our feelings, and the bs has every right to as much paranoia as they need. We gave up all such considerations for our feelings when we lied to their faces, over and over, and over. Just bear with it, sem has to work it out for himself, and your feelings have to be irrelevant....bummer huh!!!! Just look at your patience as another back payment (restitution) for the trust you stole. If anything, just brainstorm with him to figure out ways to feel safe re this, help him recover the mails, repeat (as often as he wants) the exact reasons and cirumstances re the erasures....and DON'T ever erase/alter anything again without his approval.

SNL,<P>Your right about that. I guess I should just let him think I erased it and try to help him figure that out. I do not erase my cell #'s on my phone, I ask him to do it. I guess now I wont erase anything on our e-mails, I will ask him to do it. Usually he lets it build up and that drives me crazy.I like to stay a little organized. I understand that he can't trust me, I just don't want to blamed for something I don't even know about. I know I lied in the past months, but I know that I have everything out, I want a freash start. How can a person earn trust if they don't get a chance to earn it??? You gave me a chance, but I didn't feel safe, and secure as I do know. I ask for one more chance.

SEM,<P>This stuff is so crazy making isn’t. I hate it when I feel like that, hate that the distrust has be brought into my life. But I understand how you feel. Hopefully JS will do everything in her power to ease year fears. Just as hopefully you will do everything in your power to assure her that it is safe to be radically honest with you.<P>Just Smiling,<P>I wish that every WS could walk in the shoes of a BS for at least a week. No I do not hope their spouse cheats on them, I just wish they could understand what it does to a person to have one’s spouse cheat on them. And yes perhaps it would be good for every BS to walk in their WS’s shoes for a week too. My point here is that after a person finds out that their spouse has been leading a secret life, their very foundation of truth and reality it shaken. Please understand that SEM does not want to be suspicious. He just does not know how to measure what is real anymore. You can go a long way to help him heal. It does sound like you are willing to do that. So yes, let him be the one who erases all emails. And keep on his rump about doing it in a timely manner if that’s important to you.<P>One thing SeenTheLight and I have found in our marriage is that total, radial honesty is actually liberating. Since we implemented it in our marriage after D-day our relationship has opened up like a flower in bloom (ok, sappy metaphor but you get the idea.) <P>I know it must be very hard to have to prove your trust worthiness every step of the way. It is also hard for SEM, so please love each other and support each other through all of this. We are cheering for you.<P>We have also expanded the idea of radial honesty and all the MB principles to our entire family. You would be surprised at the difference this has made in our family dynamics. Suddenly the very root of the problem with our children came to the forefront as they too became “radically honest”. There is so much power in this MB stuff. <P>Z

Nina Too,<P>Thank you for the info.<P>I did try the angle of telling her it is a matter of time before I figure it out and if I find anything and she continues to lie I will leave her. She said pull up the e-mails, you will not find anything. I am starting to believe her. Thank you.<P>SnL,<P>Thank you for your support. You were correct in why I felt it so suspicios, Those e-mails were to a friend who knew about the As and she had lied about the fact that he knew, That is how I felt I came to the conclusion that she was still lying about the one A wich turned out to be 3 more. I found it funny how she earased all but one of his e-mails. I am not sure but I am starting to believe her, she wouldn't continue to lie with knowledge that I can pull them back up and read them, I think she knows better at this point, cause I am sure I would leave her if I caught her in a lie at this point. <P>I trully believe a person can only do so much before you can't repair what has been done, and I am at that point. I could take more truths that SHE comes forward with, but I will not except more lies.<P>Also thanks for talking to KS, I know this is just as hard for her, and comming from you it is helpful in breaking the tension between us. Not just trying to say thanks for stick up for me, I am trying to say thanks for the help. <P>tears, <P>Thank you, I tried to look in there, but it appears we don't have that activated or something. Is there a secret to that for future referance. Thanks<P>Zorweb,<P>Thanks so much for your understanding. It is funny, KS doesn't seem to listen to how I feel when I try to tell her what I am going through, but she sure listens when someone else who is going through it tells her the same thing. I think maybe she feels I am being irrational or crazy, and needs to see it is normal, in order to believe that I honestly am not just trying to be unfair. <P>I don't want to cause more problems between us, I just want to know there won't be more problems in the future. Hard to do I know, but I don't want to be led into this with more lies again. This is my last hope, I have told her I will not do this again. I feel this is her third chance, and I will not give her another. I left the door open for her to come forward with more info, but I explained that if I find out on my own I will be done. I sure hope I won't find more, but I feel better when I start a lead (on what I think is something) and it turns up nothing, I start to overcome the fear that she is still lying. Hopefully trust will find its way back into our marriage. <P>Thank you all agian.

SEM and Keep Smiling,<P>One thing that SeenTheLight and I have done is that we have installed keystroke-monitoring software on all of our computers. We use the one sold on <A HREF="http://www.iopus.com." TARGET=_blank>www.iopus.com.</A> We have the software create log files in a directory then either of us can check them at any time. The software is on my computer as well as his. I feel that as the BS, I need to do anything that I ask him to do. We are not only trying to rebuild my trust in him but we are also building a radically honest marriage. One of the things I’ve noticed is that an large percentage of BSs end up having “secondary affairs”. I recognize that although having an affair is totally out of character for me, it is possible that I too could fall into a “secondary affair”. So this keeps both of us from creating a secret life.<P>Hope this helps<P>Z<BR>

Thanks Z,<P>I will talk to KS about that. Thanks for the link. <P>I am the same way with her, I feel that there sould be nothing hidden between us. I have made it my own personal policy from the beginning of this relationship to keep no secrets, and I am hoping I can get her to do the same. I am just afraid if she keeps anything from the past from me, she will always find it easy to just lie about something in the future. I don't want any type of lie in the future, because I think even a simple lie about something unimportant will probably completely ruin the trust I am hoping to gain back. I honestly feel lies or ommissions in the future will lead to the end of our marriage, and I don't want to go through all of this and have a simple lie destroy everything we work for. I guess what I am saying is I would rather end this now than go through this to have it end because she just can't be honest with me. I have done eveything except beg her to tell all, and I hope she has finally found it in herself to do just that. <P>I don't want there to be more, but I don't want her to keep it from me if there is more. Like I told her, there isn't much she can tell me at this point that would change my mind on what I want to do.

SEM & KS,<P>A long time ago there was an excellent post on the old BAN board expressing the reasons why the BS "needs" to know the truth. It has been reposted on almost all the affairs boards, including this one, many times. If you have never read it, I urge you to do so.......<BR> <A HREF="http://suite101.com/mypage.cfm/contactliz/10633" TARGET=_blank>http://suite101.com/mypage.cfm/contactliz/10633</A> <P>SEM & KS, it has been over 3, almost 4 years now since I discovered my H's affair. My whole world was shaken to the core and everything turned upside down. I was "lucky" that he had no contact with the OW since he ended it and I have had NO reasons to think he has been anything but truthful since that day. And it has been just recently that I have FINALLY been able to feel like I can begin to trust him again. I can go somewhere without him and not feel like I have to rushhhhh to get back. I don't have to check the mileage, hit the "redial" on the phone, and so on and so on. I will never have the "blind trust" I once had but, after 3+ years of playing [censored] Tracey with no leads, it may finally be time to consider retiring that role. With no regrets and great relief. I HAD to do that, as much as I didn't want to. I WANTED to trust him with all my heart and soul but I just couldn't. Not after what happened. Til now. <P>SEM & KS, you WILL get that trust back. You WILL. With no more lies, total honesty and TIME. That nasty ol' word TIME again. Stay strong, stay honest, and keep that goal in mind. It's within reach!!! <BR>

That is a great post...it would be useful for BadHubby right now, too.

Thanks for reminding me Nina. I'll post it for him too.