I have an honest question about myself and my recovery. I've looked at many of the things that you all have talked about getting back to in your marriages. It seems that most just want normal, simple lives with your spouses and take great joy from just having a regular, every day life. <P>I keep trying to head myself in the same direction, but I'm having lots of trouble. It seems that the things that other people seem to think of as so fulfilling, just leave me numb. Like: doing regular couple things, planning for the future, building a secure home, having children, raising them, doing family things, getting involved in church or other organizations. I'm going through lots of the motions, hoping something will spark. It was the same way long before my A. It seems that somewhere along the way, I changed. Years ago I realized that I no longer wanted the things I thought I did.<P>My time with OM was very fulfilling (as I'm sure you can imagine). I once again had hope and joy in my heart. Those things that I had found so empty feeling suddenly seemed much more meaningful with him in the picture. But now he is gone and so are all of those dreams. <P>I had hoped that with rebuilding my marriage and being on meds would get me back on track and help me start feeling joy again. But I have no joy. Now, I don't feel BAD so much, but I don't feel good either. It's like everything just moves along at a flat pace. No blips appear anywhere.<P>So I've been wondering; what am I to do? Will it be that in time these things will become meaningful and fulfilling? Or will it be that my expectations become lowered and the slightest thing (like family dinners) will be monuments in my life? I know that most will say that my joyous feelings with the OM were just fantasy and not real so I can't really compare my real life to it. I don't really buy that, but for argument sake, I'll go with it. If that is indeed true, then why did I feel the same way before he came along as well as after??<P>Looking for some insight and a reason to celebrate being alive.<P>

The pastor at the church I went to today said to give thanks to God for all things.<P>That is the attitude adjuster...when you find things for which to be thankful and thank God for them...<P>When we are lax in thanking God, we become mired in shoulda's and coulda's...<P>It is my job to stop asking what life is going to bring to me and answer what am I bringing to life!<P>Cali<P><P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

snobird,<P>The thing about your post that really hit me is that you did nothing really special with your OM. You said that normal, everyday things suddenly seemed meaningful.<P>It sounds to me like you are depressed. When we fall in love there are some chemicals that run through our body for the first year or two. These are the "in love" chemicals that make everything seem new and exciting. They subside over time. <P>How long have you been on antidepressents? Do you work out? What do you do in your life that makes you feel good about yourself?<P>Z

Hi Snobird,<P>You have raised an interesting question and I see this as a progressive one. It is a good question. Sno, what you have mentioned and the way you present yourself is similar to my H. <P>Maybe for different reasons but my H usually related better to total strangers than his own family. It was much easier for his to put strangers first and family below never. <P>For him, OW gave him renewed vigor and energy. Well you have to realize that being with the OW meant no responsibilities. They planned for their future together as if he was just a single guy with no prior obligations. Like out of the movies and driving off into the sunset. Sounds fun. Wish I could just drop everything and disappear. H actually considered that. <P>I am bringing this up to show you that your thoughts are not unique. This may give you hope. My H was waiting and waiting for that 'spark' that would turn him around. Then he waited and waited for OW to make him soo made or she do something soo bad that he would hate her. <P>Both never happened. Bottom line that when all was exhausted (at least up til now), it all came down to the fact that you can't rewrite history. You can but it will all blow up in your face sooner or later. So in reality you can not rewrite history and convince the rest of the world that prior to the OM, you never had a life, obligations, loves, responsibilities. My H had to come to that realization on his own. Oh, I tried but he did not allow it to sink in. So he had to drag us through the mud until there was no more mud. As he saw himself dragging us over the reality of the jaggered (unstable,cutting,bleak) future, he saw the blood start to pour out (real decisions being made, like displacing his family, moving on without any more contact from any friends/relatives, losing his family forever, etc.). For us that was reality, that is what was happening. OW said he had her what else did he need? That thought played over in his mind. I watched and bled, being cut deeply almost to the point of no return. The scars inflicted on me personally will not go away, not in this lifetime. The same with our son and H. <P>In this pain and suffering came some physical attacks. In my case my body started to break down. There was an incident where H accidently got cut (small and healed well). My emotional and physical damage ran much worse. H could then begin to see what was really happening. It did him no good for me to hide my pain. I no longer could hide my pain. I no longer hide it. <P>H came home. OW has been showing her evil revengeful side. I am once again taking the brunt of this. This time I have some support. Is this the spark my H needed to see where he was needed and where he felt needed? Maybe. I did not know it would take this. Nor did I wish it to turn out this way. <P>Normalancy has yet to be restored in our home. H is slow in his recovery. OW kept calling and now resorts to leaving disguised messages for me under H's name. This is not my imagination, H admits this. Now calls her psyco and revengeful. <P>I long for the time, when we can have normalancy in our home. Our worries will be the daily things for families. Agruments consist of what's for dinner or did you do your homework, instead of has there been any OW contact? My heart is racing as I am writing his to you. I still worry about much. <P>Sno, I believe you are further down the road to recovery than you think. I understand that the OM made you feel bette than your present family does. But you have history with your family, you know good and bad. As much as H claimed he knew OW, he now claims he really didn't. <P>That could be what you find out as well. Is it worth finding that out? Look at what I had to go through for my H to find out. My H feels real bad about the pain he put us through but it happened. I am trying hard not to cry over spilled milk. However, it is my resolve not to even deal with spilled milk again. <P>Sno, I recommend that you try to put the interests of others ahead of your own. Find the joy in the wise saying: "It is better to give than to receive." Remember the words: "Do to others as you would have them do to you."<P>A's are a selfish arrangement/situation/experience. That is not an opinion. That is a fact. Work away from being selfish work on being self sacraficing. Learn to be content will little things. Find happiness in seeing your family happy. Be happy with yourself. Life is too short to live in a miserable state for even 1 day. I regret all that I have suffered but if it helps my H recover, then I will not browbeat myself for it anymore. <P>Look towards the future and think how you will reflect on your life. Is it one that your family will remember you with good thoughts or bad? That may help you know what you should be doing today. <P>Take Care, <BR>L.<BR>

I am assuming that the 'meds' you are on are anti-depressants, right?<P>I'm no doctor, but I do know that my H had been on some a few years ago when he hurt his back (to relax the muscles). Yes, it worked to ease that one symptom (the back pain), but according to him, it also ebbed off his other feelings. He wasn't able to feel happy. Instead, it was more of a contentment. He wasn't able to perform in the bedroom as easily either. He just didn't have those same urges.<P>When you were with OM, you were not on the meds, right? That means all of your feelings were felt. Perhaps you should talk to your doctor about getting off of them, or at least changing the prescription? <P>Meds aside... what dreams have you made with your H? I"m not talking about pre A dreams (necessarily).. I'm talking about new ones. It is quite apparent that the ones you thought you wanted, you don't (you said that yourself). My thinking is that you need some sort of adventure in your life. Can you work with your H (using POJA strategies) and come up with things that are more fulfilling for you both?<P>Could it be (as it is with my H and I), that in your M, you have dreams and goals, but haven't done much to accomplish them? As we've read on here, talk is cheap, but actions speak wonders.<P>Sometimes you have to force yourself to get started on things. IMO, now is as good a time as any.<P>Karen<BR>

snobird, I relate so much to what you said. I used to be miserable unless there was some major exciting diversion in my life. The reason is because I was really depressed and was always looking for major DIVERSIONS. Since I could not be happy [or even content] in my own skin I was always on the HUNT for things OUTSIDE of myself to make me happy. And these things that I found outside of myself to make happy were always fleeting - they could never keep me content for long. So instead of realizing that EXTERNAL things don't have the power to make me happy [only temporarily amuse me], I would get angry at those things for failing me and start the futile hunt again. <P>I don't suffer from that anymore and there are two things that I can point to that brought me true happiness from WITHIN. The first thing was working out. This made a tremendous difference in my attitude and outlook on life. I have handled the most horrific traumas and changes WITHOUT depression since I started working out. I do enjoy just kicking around doing nothing because I am comfortable in my own skin now.<P>The second thing that I changed was my adherence to my conscience. For example, I had several traits that were direct violations of my conscience but I was such a good bullshi**er that I would minimize the gravity of my actions and rationalize away any guilt. I didn't realize that guilt can be good and can be a healthy warnign sign to the psyche that things are NOT RIGHT and need to be corrected. <P>My crimes involved massive spending and then all the lies that go with it to cover my tracks when my husband started asking questions. I had to jump through hoops to cover my crimes and was really doing my family a disservice in many ways with my spending habits. Anyway, once I cut the crap out my conscience calmed down and my self respect began to come back. <P>Never ever again will under estimate the enormous power of my conscience and the importance of heeding guilt. Shutting out one's conscience is a dangerous endeavor that only leads to deep depression. Heeding my guilt and getting my crap together has enabled me to like and respect myself again and to be comfortable in my own skin. <P>In short, you are looking for happiness and contentment in all the wrong places. The buck stops with the person in the mirror. <P>One other thing that I should add is that back when I was depressed [before I discovered all the above], I was on Paxil for a year. I FELT DEAD that entire year. I felt no depression, etc, but I also felt NO JOY, no nothing. I was just in a daze. I don't even rememebr that year. And when I quit taking the Paxil, all my depression was still there sitting waiting for me. It only worked as a MASK, rather than a solution. I would rather be DEAD than ever live like that again.

I agree with Dana.... "look at the person in the mirror" to make you happy. You do sound depressed. Don't allow other people to have the power to make you happy.<P>You need to do something to make you happy...something that will HELP you to become a better YOU...whether its working out... reading more self-help... or getting excited about your job, your children..or better yet, somehow getting excited about your H. And remember that HE is the man who has devoted his life to you, NOT the OM.<P>Good luck.........<P><P>------------------<BR>..climbing the rainbow..

Sno:<P>I really don't think anyone here wants a boring life of laundry, sitcoms & dulldrum.<P>I think the want for "normalcy" is really a need for recommitment from our WS and a sense of "reality". A's are not usually reality, but fantasy. That's what "we" the BS & those WS trying to build our lives want back. A real life, not one where there is constant deceit & betrayal.<P>We want great sex, romantic vacations, moonlight walks. We want to sleep late & make love all day. We want to laugh, dream & yes, fantasize.<P>But who can really do all that in real life?<P>We have to work. We have to be care givers (even if we don't have children we usually have family that needs our time/help)<P>We need to go shopping, do laundry.<P>We get sick, tired & yes, bored.<P>Sno, think about it...Are you really being realistic when you think that every single moment of your life is "better" just because of the OM ....<P>I agree with everyone with the meds...What are you on? Sometimes a decrease in dosage can make all the difference.<P>I do want to give you a (((hug))) and a pat on the back for continuing to post & ask questions. You wouldn't be doing it if you didn't care about your H & your life.<P>Lisa<P>

I'm on Zoloft and actually like it quite well. I don't wish to down the dosage at this point. I used to work out a lot, but I never enjoyed it. I am trying to get back into the habit.<P>There are things that I have enjoyed doing for myself, most I just can't get back into. Some things make me happy and I focus on them (my cats, listening to Art Bell, taking care of the house, etc).<P>As far as a boring life, that doesn't bother me in the least. It isn't bordom I'm afraid of. I'm a home body, I like doing the laundry and the dishes and yard work. I get good feelings of accomplishment from that every day stuff. It is just that most things don't bring me the joy that they used to. <P>To address just a couple points:<P><B>I understand that the OM made you feel bette than your present family does. But you have history with your family, you know good and bad. As much as H claimed he knew OW, he now claims he really didn't. That could be what you find out as well. Is it worth finding that out?</B> <BR>I do still believe that I know my OM, that isn't something that I have a problem with. He never changed or lied to me or did anything to show himself as unworthy. And I'm not really even trying to whine about "I should be with him." My trouble is dealing with the here and now, which I want very much to do so.<P><B>The reason is because I was really depressed and was always looking for major DIVERSIONS. Since I could not be happy [or even content] in my own skin I was always on the HUNT for things OUTSIDE of myself to make me happy. And these things that I found outside of myself to make happy were always fleeting - they could never keep me content for long.</B><BR>I will admit to having a bit of this myself (looking outside myself for happiness). I seem to only find myself of value when I look at me through someone else's eyes. I feel best when I am doing for, giving to, devoting myself to another person. I am not selfish in that respect. I like to do for others. I get so much satisfaction from it. I think doing for the same people all the time and not feeling like it was noticed or appreciated drove me to look elsewhere. (not an excuse or reason for the A)<P>Yes, yes, look inside one's self, attitude adjustment, fill up my time. I'm trying!!! Really trying!!! But it seems the more I try to fit into a new mold of mental health/happy marriage/normal life the more resentful and angry I feel. I find myself hardly able to tollerate the "happy family" stuff I'm expected to participate in and politely side step the "so when are you going to have children???" crap. Gritting my teeth and smiling is becoming painful.<P>I think I'm just venting now...."Ignore the nutty woman behind the curtain!!!"<P>Sno

<B>I seem to only find myself of value when I look at me through someone else's eyes. </B><P>Yikes! This is straight out of the Ruiz stuff I read...that we are domesticated to 'see' ourselves how we 'think' others see us...<P>That's the essence of a mid-life crisis...we don't fit into our own bodies and our own perception of ourselves...that's why something new feels good...<P>We are looking into a blank mirror...but we really aren't in every relationship there are images...images we have of ourselves and images we think the other person sees of us...and they have images of themselves and the images they think we see of them PLUS there is the image that we 'want' them to be and they want us to be....six images between two people...<P>What to do? The MB method is to practice Radical Honesty and Policy of Joint Agreement...meet each others EN's and spend 15 hours of time together...<P>Ruiz says cut through your fog (mitote) and find out who you really are...why you are...where all of your beliefs come from and make new agreements for yourself...(see my signature lines)...When you practice these agreements you will start to 'fit' into your own skin and will be happy and when you can be happy, you can love...because love comes out of you...that's when you are complete...<P>Most relationships begin out of need...we need the love they seem to give us...that's why they are doomed to fail...we cannot put our happiness in another's hands...they cannot love us enough to complete us...<P>Peace and good luck,<BR>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>