To be very honest I haven't posted here in a long time, mostly because posts, such as your 50/50 seem to take over the boards and I just seem to get so angry that I doubt I would have too much that is constructive to say.<P>Your attitude "seems" to say that your wife doesn't do it for you anymore and the OW does.<BR>Can't say what the truth is because only you and your wife really know what the state of your married life is, and since we only have one side to go on many think you may not be giving your wife a "fair shake at it".<BR>We do know that a person who is still involved with somebody they have had an affair with on even a very small level generally has a somewhat clouded vision of what their marriage is and has been.<BR>I must be honest here and sy that I haven't done all of my research so you may indeed have ended all contact with the OW, if so you have my apologies for assuming you have not (your attitude implies that you haven't <--again sorry if I am jumping to the wrong conclusions).<P>On this this note I would suggest you read the following thread that this link leads to. Regardless of whether or not you are in contact with the OW it is well worth the read.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/011670.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/011670.html</A> <P>I am not saying you need to stay in your marriage<BR>I am not telling you to leave your marriage<BR>What I am saying is that to continue on the path that you are on is cruel to your wife and is not MarriageBuilding<BR>I think a decision needs to be made<P>Nicole

Yes nicole, ow and I have no contact. I of course know she exists, and could call her if I wanted, but it would serve no use, we both know we must deal with our marriages. Nor did we ever ask the other to do anything different, but did ask for honesty with each other, and our spouses, something she has troubled over, wanting to avoid pain...but in any event, this is absolutely not about the ow, it is about the marriage, and the state it was in long before we met (and ditto for her). We had both emotionally given up on our marriages long ago, and resigned ourselves to a passionateless life. That is different now, cause now we must live with the knowledge of what is really about, what fitting is really about, and try to figure out how that works (and why it never did) with the people we married long long ago.<P>My attitude is not my wife doesn't do it for me anymore, we have had a very emotionally lopsided marriage since our marriage, her first suggestion ( of hundreds over the years) for divorce was on our honeymoon. I never suggested divorce. Our problems are not trivial, and are of the seriously don't fit category...we do in some ways, as partners in maintaining a home, and so forth, but emotionally we are not very good for each other, and life has been very painful that way for us both.<P>why do you say the path I am on is cruel, and not following MB principles.....must I be perfect in this effort to be found worthy? I am doing the best I can, but I am beginning to wonder if I should just quit and give up, it doesn't seem anyone (including wife) really approves, and I am tired of being judged and critizied.<P>Thx for your comments.

just letting youm know nicole, I read your link. I am not sure what your point was, thinker can and does talk to people, post, whatever she wants. Nor (although my philosophical inquiries might make one think so) have I told her to just get over it etc, etc. What should I do? Talk to no one, wasn't that the point of the thread you posted, a spouse should have access to people to talk with. If I cannot talk here about the things that concern me, where should I go? I am chastised here often about torturing my w, but these are not to her, and I have asked her not to read my posts, what more can I do? And btw she has zero interest in my feelings, she just wants me to shut-up, and act like the H I promised to be, just "do it". In return she has offered (and does) act nicer, but she has no interest in helping me work through all this stuff. Well I wish I could "just do it" and all would be fine, but since I apparently can't, I must just be some lowlife sadist I guess.

Ya' know, SnL, when reading your posts, it usually seems to me that you spend an awful lot of time trying to convince <B>yourself</B> that there is no way you will ever be happy with your wife instead of constructively trying to rebuild your marriage. I often feel that my H does that... Oh, he is nicer in the way he talks to me, we have sex, he says he loves me, etc., but I think that he makes so little effort to meet my needs because he's convnince himself that he will never be "in love" with me again.<P>I also think that reading your posts must be very painful for your wife. Could it be that you, maybe subconsciously, hope that she will eventually give up and divorce you? If that's it, your posts <B>are</B> cruel to her, IMHO.

Snl,<P>You are not a sadist unless you choose to be. You are not the worst man in the world. Someone else already took that title. They can't find him now, I think he is a coward anyway. LOL!!!<P>Now, you may never allow me to call your home and speak to you and your W again but Snl, we all need to remember how are thoughts are being taken when we post here. <P>I have spoken to both of you and have even heard the two of you laugh together. It made my heart happy. Did I make that up? No. I overheard that tone from the both of you several times. Now even if those where the only times you two shared a laugh, it is more than H and I have. We are working on our M. Hm.......<P>I think you two are concentrating too hard on the negative stuff. You 2 have already demonstrated that you can be happy together, even if it is for a short moment or in spurts. But it can does and did happen. <P>So I plead with you and your W, concentrate on the positive. If you are in your marriage, then be there, work on it, support it, coddle it, love it, make it your primary thought, cherish it. Consider it your lifeline to happiness. Restructure your focus. <P>I don't want to see you deteroirate to nothing. You are heeded towards a depressive state and from my experience it is not a healthy place to be. Snl, you know how strong and opininated I am, you've heard me. I have not spoken to the 2 of you for several weeks. What has happened in that time has really brought me down. I am struggling to pick myself up now, so is thinker. I need my H to help me. You both need to help each other. OK?<P>Don't read into this to find a deeper meaning. It is right here all on top. <P>I am truly worried about the both of you. Refocus your spirit. Let the OW go do her thing, she was doing it before you and really does not need you to survive. Your W and family do and you know what? You need them, too.<P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR> <P>

S_n_L,<P>I guess I was mistaken in saying we have only one side of your story and for that I apologize.<P>As for my point is the link that I posted, it was merely a way of saying that if you do want your marriage then accept the responsibility of that and put forth the effort.<BR>Sit down with your wife and go over all the aspects of building a ggod marriage.<BR>I am sure that since you have both been reading here you are well aware of the concepts that MB emparts, put them to work.<BR>If you don't want your marriage then stop all the whining about how unfulling it is and leave.<BR>Maybe I am being quick to judge but as Dylan put it to my H so many months ago<P>**** OR GET OFF THE POT!!<BR>