SEM,<P>Hey, I understand the feeling. Recovery isn't all fun is it? Kinda painful in a different sort of way. Listen, when you strain your muscles from too much excercise or stress and then start to relax, sometimes that's when it hurts the most. <P>Kinda where we are. Our mates are home but...... it's not Miller time (unless your name happens to be Miller - LOL!!) but now you feel the weight you have been carrying and want to quickly unload. Or maybe it just happened too fast. <P>In the scheme of things SEM your recovery with KS is quite rapid. Don't try to hurry it up. You 2 want a good solid recovery right? Then build it that way. One brick of love at a time. <P>Spend time together and a bit apart. Not far apart just a little space. Relax. Breathe. Maybe a nice weekend away. Give each other honest reassurance. That's what I need. Oops, I'm suppose to be encouraging you, but I think you need reassurance also. Just think SEM, I am not quite where you are at. I don't get the reassurance I need, my H says he is having a hard time. See, he finally saw what the OW is capable of and appears to be very disappointed. So he is trying to keep his word and stay with his family. Deep down he says he knows this is what he wants. But.....I can tell he still longs for OW in someways. YUCK for me!!! But he is trying. Much less than KS. <P>Wanna trade? I think not. You are actually a lot farther along than you realize and that is what you need to remember but don't force it. Your body now needs some attention (I mean due to physical stress now showing). Me too. I am having to take it much easier and still I find myself pushing me. <P>Small steps SEM. You are not alone. Your W is there with care and we all feel the same. <P>L.

SEM:<P><B>I hope I come around for me and my W.</B><P>This little sentence speaks volumes to me...where there is hope, there is a chance. I had hope for my marriage, but now it's going fast, because I know my H doesn't. And I am the BS...here you are, the hurting one (not meaning to make little of KS's pain, because she has some too) and you have hope.<P>I think that's good news for you SEM. You are working through this.<P>BTW, those things you both do together? They're wonderful. I know my H and I didn't do enough together overseas...the last big thing we did was make a big garden three years ago, before we left Oz. And KS's talk of doing things together brought back a whole lot of stuff we did, and I forgot. Now we didn't get lazy or anything there, we were in rented accomodation and we had gardeners in each one...well I'll never do that again!!! Took away a lot of our activities.<P>Anyway, I really just wanted to say you're doing great...<P>Love and light,<P>Jacky<P>PS thinker big healing hugs for you ((((((((((()))))))))))))<BR>

Orchid,<P>Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. I do have to look at what I have not what I don't have, it is hard to do sometimes. <P>You know the funny thing about your post, Miller is my last name SE...MILLER, I used my initials...funny huh. So it's always Miller time here. <P>Nina too,<P>yOu are so great, you always make me feel better reading your advice. Thank you.

Yes, SNL is negative a lot. I went to work with him today again, and he yelled at me five times. I can't seem to do anything right. Of course I took 3 nerve pills today, cause went to the hospital with my parents to find out that my dad has cancer. <P>Would of been nice to have H get me a ice-cream cone or something. We came home, I made a quick dinner for him and I , did the dishes, made a big pot of chicken soup to cook on the stove all night. He sits and eats his dinner, goes upstairs to the computer and is still there. I feel overloaded and unloved. Not a good day today. I am tired of just being here and not knowing which way to go. Would appreciate more help from H. But I guess I shouldn't expect anything that he doesn't want to give. I feel like giving up again today, would like a more compassionate spouse. Dealing with cancer of one of your parents is hard.

Thinker,<P>I am sorry to hear about your father. You sound a lot like KS right now, but she isn't dealing with the cancer issue. I admit I am basically useless lately with the house chores, and being supportive. I did give it some effort this weekend (Wed. and Thur.). Is SnL using anti-D meds? I think mine are starting to kick in. It sounds like he is possibly depressed and he may need meds or if he is already taking them maybe look for a higher dose or a different type altogether. I know they can work to get you out of the rut. <P>I feel bad for KS, it isn't like I enjoy being the way I am, but I just cant seem to do anything not to be this way. I am trying but the more I seem to try, the more I seem to fail. Perhaps this is SnL's problem, I wish I had advice on the issue, if I was the expert I guess I wouldn't be in this condition right now. <P>I can only say give it time and hopefully he will come around as I hope I will come around in time as well. I pray that KS will give me some time to get over all this.

I am sure she will give you time. At first I don't think she understood why this devastated you so much, but I can see from her posts that she, too has come a long way since telling you.<P><BR>I think it's going to be okay fory you guys, because you BOTH want it to be. A lot of us here are in a position where that is not the case. You are lucky, you have that first step taken already.<P>Keep praying and working through this, and talking, and letting your feelings be known (both of you). There will be so many ups and downs, on both sides, but if you both REALLY want it to work, it will happen.<P>Take care, and love and light,<P>Jacky<P>PS (((((((((((((((((((((thinker))))))))))))))))))))<P>So sorry to hear about your dad. <P>Love and light to you, and healing light to your dad.<P><BR>

thanks for the concern about my dad. We found out thursday, that dad has lymphoma cancer. the Tumor is 4x5"and is right next to the frontal lobe of his brain. He will go on radiation next month. The doctor is concerned about radiation and the brain, the frontal lobe is the memory and personality part of the brain. Doctor was good to dad, wrote on many pieces of paper what he found. Dad can't see very well, and hearing is leaving because of the pressure of the tumor. Taste of food is leaving. I did good, took 3 nerve pills before I went with parents for the diagnosis. <P>I am on Zolof 100MG and H is not on anything. Says he is not depressed and doesn't need medication. So that is all I can tell you. I feel he is very depressed but who am I. <P>Not in a good mood today, just sort of here but wishing I was not here. Trying to clean house, house a mess, can't seem to get anyone to clean up. Then later I will walk to my parents about 3 miles away and help her. <P>Just need to do things and I feel lonely.

thinker,<BR>I am so sorry for your dad. I can only imagine what your mother and you are going through. I will pray twice a day for him. <BR>I think SNL is depressed as well. But I guess it does no good to tell him. He seems like one of those guys who hears something from one ear and out the next ear! Maybe it's his pride as well. <P>Sem did help me on Thursday. He mowed the grass and lots of other things. Just for my Tupperware party. It was wonderful. I honestly think that helps him when he is doing something instead of laying around thinking all day. <P>I just wanted to give you a (((((HUG)))) you really need you. Try to keep your head up and put one smile on for me.<BR>Here is a joke that you can smile at. <BR>How do you make an elephant fly?<BR>Take the "S" out of Safe, and The "f" out of way!!!<BR>Do you get it?<BR>((((Hugs))) Sherry

Smiling - I didn't get the joke, tell me.<P>Glad to hear SEM is cutting the grass and making things look nice for the tupperware party. He must know that is lovebank deposits for your bank. Glad to hear, this was a nice move on his part. It is hard for all of us to try to do things. But life goes on, and things must get done, chores, work, living and all. <P>Thanks for the hug, son and I finisihed the llving room, looks pretty good. This place gets so messy and dirty. To smile, is difficult. Not worth getting you down, just not worth the effort. Well, I guess I will go for the walk to my moms, my dog and I go and I talk to God, my dog and cry and end up getting myself composed before I get to moms, it takes about an hour of walking, good for the legs and soul.<P>Hope your tupperware party went well. You can make some good money at these things. They come out with some really unique new items. Well bye for now. Maybe will see whats happening tonight on the boards.<p>[This message has been edited by thinker (edited September 29, 2001).]

thinker,<P>Ok take the "F" out of way. There is no "f" in way. say that out loud. Sorry it's a bit bad. I had a ten yr old girl and her father tell me that joke at work one day. But of course I'm the ditzy blonde who says it out loud for eveyone to hear. Good thing there weren't any children around.<P>If you lived near me I would come over help you in nanno secound. But since you live to far I will send you my magic wand. Oh yay! I don't have one, well I will pray for you a lot more than. <P>An hour Walk? I bet you are in great shape. That's it were moving to Detriot. I want to get in shape so bad, but I have no motivation. I sit on the computer at home or clean, At work I stand in one spot 8 hours a day. Thaen I come home from work with sore feet and legs and exhausted. Plus figuring out what to do with my babies is my other challenge. Oh well. maybe one day.<P>I will pray for you. ((((hugs))))). Sherry

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I never immagined she would have had 4 As, I figured at least one, and possibly 2, but four was not something I had ever thought I would be able to cope with. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>SEM,<BR>My wife PlainJane had 4 A's, she was plotting how to fly off to another state to have sex with number 5 when I caught her. Like your wife, PJ admitted only what I had found out on my own, at first claiming the cybersex I discovered on her computer with OM#5 was all that she had done - no real sex. I found out about the PA with OM #3 the next day. I found out about OM #4 a few weeks later. This was a real terrible thing as it was a "friend". PJ broke down and admitted the last two 5 months later sending me into another tailspin. Believe me <B>I know what you're going through</B>!<P>You've suffered a terrible shock. Myself, I had to take layoffs from work twice. I lost weight, couldn't sleep, and was pretty much a mess for a long time. I think this is still very fresh for you. Please give yourself a break. Take care of yourself first. You are going through a grieving process. Shock, and denial is the first phase. Like my wife did to me KS has just knocked you back into phase one. It feels like DDay all over again, but it will not last as long. <P>You need to reach a sense of "equilibrium". I doubt if you're there yet. This is something that I expect all S's who find out about multiple A's must deal with. How do you know there were no more? When can you feel that the lies have stopped. I think you have to reach a level of acceptance before you are really going to be able to get back into life much. You need to feel safe.<P>A turning point for me came when my W was in an inpatient treatment center. The therapist was very respectful of my feelings and she asked PJ if she had disclosed all. PJ said "yes" and I realized that if ever there was a safe place for her to spill any more it was then and there. She had all kinds of support, and would be inpatient for 5 weeks. I just felt that she would have confessed more right then had there been more. <P>Anyway, you need to go through your process. You have to feel you've "touched bottom" - that you've faced the worst, and that either KS has come clean, or that anything further will not hurt you so badly.<P>Priorities seem to change when you go through something like this. I think you are right - this <B>is</B> your time to struggle, and get better any way you can. Your family's future is at stake here. Forgive me, but under the circumstances, I find it hard to believe that KS is all worried about a <I>tupperware party</I>??! How about cancelling the Tupperware party? Problem solved.<P>It's ironic KS that you say you don't want to live in a "messy house", yet you've created a hell of a mess. Your H needs to feel that he is your top priority. It will probably take quite some time before life seems normal again. Have you read anything about the length of time it takes to recover from this? Why do you feel SEM should be OK with having a bunch of people in his home at a Tupperware party after such a short time? Again, sorry for being blunt, but in the first few months I could never have had a bunch of my W's friends in the house. I would have wondered if she had told any of them, I would have feared that she had had sex with some of their husbands. Do you have any idea of the fears that run through your H's mind?<P>Now I find no "fault" with you KS. I think you're going through this the best you know how. You've been pretending this "mess" doesn't exist for years. It's become a habit. <P>I only speak so directly about this stuff because I've lived through it. Probably the biggest thing my W did to help create the possibility of recovery was to finally admit all, and seek help. Recovery was not our top priority, it was our only priority. <P>Now, just having passed 1 year since DDay, things are really getting better. I think we're going to be a success story. We're planning a move across the country and everyone is thrilled at the new possibilities. It's been a rough year though. I think to survive this, both husband and wife have to change. You can't just stop the behavior and think "let's move on now", and likewise SEM, I don't think it's enough to just forgive KS. We need to make ammends to each other - we need to feel their pain and tell them we're sorry for failing them, and yes, we've failed too. We need to build a new relationship based on honesty, care, and commitment. <P>Your situation is so similar to what we went through that I thought I should post to you. If you search on PlainJane, I'm sure you'll find the time she posted about confessing the last two A's to me. So much like KS's post from a few weeks ago. You can make it out of this and I have a good feeling that you will. Just remember to put recovery first. SEM will probably suffer waves of pain, or anger from time to time. You just have to accept that KS. Each time you come out of a wave you will be farther along.<P>good luck to you both,<BR>David <BR> <p>[This message has been edited by Davidb (edited September 30, 2001).]

David,<P>Thank you so much for your insight on this, you do have many simalarities to us. Even down to the move across the country, we have been planning to move from here to Pennsylvainia within the next year or two. <P>You definately seem to know how I am feeling. I am having a difficult time trying to move on, I am afraid she hasn't told all, and that is scarry. I can say this is a lot like the first d-day except I seem to be taking it much worse than the first. <P>I agree, I need to work on myself as much as KS does, I just am starting to feel like actually working on things. I think my meds are starting to take affect, and I am feeling much better than when I origonaly posted this thread. I still have many questions and fears, I am very afraid to move on. I am afraid I will get 3 more months into and learn more, I have already told her now is the time to tell all, because I will not stay if more comes out in the future. She assured me that is all. I will have to just take blind faith in this and hope and pray that this is all. <P>I thank you again, I will have KS come in and read your post, it was very enlightening, and I am sure she will appreciate it. <P>Also I am glad to hear things are going good for you two, It is very good to hear a success story from someone with an almost identical situation...gives me hope, and that is what I need right now. <P>Thanks <BR>Eric

Reading these posts brought me out of my exile of marriage builders. I found the one your wife wrote after she confessed the additional a's. I thought I was the only one in the world that did that. Not to say that I am glad to find company, but at least I and maybe she won't feel so all alone.<P>I understand how you feel, and I understand how she does too. It took me many months of "recovery" until I could tell the whole truth. For months David would ask how did it start? How did it begin, and I couldn't tell him the truth. Finally, the pain of all the continued lying and fear that it would all come out someday, I just had to confess all. Yes, it was hard, yes, he kicked me out again, but it was at that time that a tremondous weight had been lifted.<P>I knew that I wanted my marriage more than anything, and in order to keep it, I had to tell him everything, even if it meant that I might lose him. I just put everything in God's hands. Yes, we are still together. A miracle. Yes, it is hard. Somedays I just wish it would all go away. Somedays I can't stand what I did and I just want to run away. But, I can't. <P>I would like to know more about KS's story. I think it is really great that the two of you are posting here together. I used to post all the time. It was really thru my relationships I built at MB that I was finally able to tell my husband, and myself the truth.<P>Take Care<BR>PJ

PJ, <P>Gosh, you sound a lot like KS, she was also afraid to tell all up front because she thought I would definetelly leave her. I may have, I know 1 A was almost bad enough to leave her, and four seems like it may have killed me on the first d-day. I think the big reason I can't seem to trust that all the truth has been told is because the first d-day I actually snooped and found out that she had at least had one A...not spacific on how many. She admitted to only one. I suspected she had had more, because of a letter she had written to her friend spelling out exactly what I had been told, while the friend had already known everything. There was one other detail that can't be discussed, that helped me believe she had done more than was being told...I had to threaten to leave her if she didn't tell the truth. Only then did she finaly tell me of the other 3. I am just afraid she found it easy to tell about these because they happened 4 years ago, but what if there was one more recent that she is afraid to tell. <P>I am just afraid we aren't out of the storm yet, I want her to get it all out for sure, before I decide to move on. I guess at some point I have to trust her and believe her. I gave her an open door for all the info. I promised I wouldn't leave if she just tells me everything. She keeps telling me that there isn't any more secrets....I hope this is true, and as I told her, if this isn't true, I hope she will just tell me. I guess I want to give her every oportunity to tell me everything, and if I move on I am afraid she won't tell me if there is something else.<P>I only wish she had done what you had done and come to me and just tell me she was sorry for lying and that she hadn't told me everything....with out me having to threaten or even ask her. By doing it that way it is a much bigger trust builder. I don't believe I would have ever question if all had been told if she came forward rather than me basically finding out.<P>I thank you for coming out of hiding and sharing your story with us, it is so helpful to hear of your success after this type of situation. It gives me much hope. <P>What did you want to know about our or her story? I am sure she would be glad to share with you, or I can tell you what I know.<P>Thanks again<P>

SEM,<P>You are giving me more credit than is worthy of me. After a very long drawn out 5-6 months of telling my husband that everything he knew was all there was to know, I finally came clean. <P>It was due to the fact that he had a gut feeling that I wasn't being truthful, and that all I basically did was confirm what he already knew. I wasn't "acting" like a person who "hit bottom". Sure I had cried, but my reactions to most everything was anger. The anger was me keeping my other secrets being exposed. Because David did tell me that if there was anymore that it would kill him....<P>You can imagine the mental state I was in. I didn't know if I was coming or going! I had relapsed onto drugs several years ago, and it was at that time I had 2 one night stands. I didn't tell him about thoses. I had figured that they were a long time ago, and he would never know....but the problem was that *I* knew. I had blocked them out for so long, and I do believe that it was because of my failure to face those indescretions, led me on a path to do far worse things in the future.<P>Our last d-day was by far the worst for me. As I said, I was kicked out, again, came home that same night, and was up all night just crying, and howling like somebody from outer space. I never expereinced anything that painful in my life. I felt gutted. But, I also felt at peace. It was two days later that I went for treatment to a wonderful place for sexual compulsitivity....<P>I wish I could say that my recovery has been perfect. We have our ups and downs, mostly from me and my lack of being able to face up to what I have done. There have been many times that I have said to David, why can't you just accept this? why can't we move on? But, that is how I lived my whole life. I never had to face my mistakes, and then look what happened? They continued to get worse and worse. I have to remember that recovery is a journey and not a destination. <P> <BR>PJ

PJ,<P>I know what you mean when you say you felt gutted but at peace as well. I felt that way. I've been praying to God to prove to him that I have told him everything. I have nothing to hide. I feel naked without all of those secrets wrapped up around me for 4 yrs, but I feel at peace. I feel good. I finally feel like God forgives me. When I told SEM of the first one, I told him that I didn't feel like God had forgiven me. Well no wonder when you're hiding more. DUH!!! When he first found out I tried to commit suicide twice. But failed. Thank God. I am still struggling with my self esteem. I can't get past hating myself. I hate myself for hurting my H, hurting our M and family.<P>How far into R are you? How are you emtionally? I can say that since I've confessed, I enjoy making love more.

Well, dday was a year ago on Labor day weekend. The actual recovery didn't real begin until all was confessed, so I would say real recovery since Feb 1. I went into a treatment center on Feb 2.<P>Emotionally, I am stronger than I have ever been, but I am also on medication. I don't think I would be as strong without it. My whole mental outlook on life has drastically improved. I am not the same as I was a year ago.<P>I suppose being "naked" without any secrets is a way to look at it. I had so many secrets, that I kept my whole life, and now, they are all out. Secrets that go back as far as childhood. All those secrets lose there power once they are exposed. This is the first time in my entire life that I am not using anything, to take me out of my reality. Drugs, sex, food, shopping, I have done them all. <P>Self esteem is something that I never had. I was never good enough, pretty enough, thin enough, I never felt that I was enough. One thing that I learned in my treatment was that *I am enough*. Sure I go thru periods of self loathing and self hate, but look where that got me? I just kept on doing more and more destructive things. <P>Looking at ourselves is the hardest thing to do, but it is exactly what we have to in order to recover from this mess we made. I always took the easy way out, now I have to do some work. <P>Take Care,<BR>will write more later<BR>PJ

PJ,<P>Are sure we aren't related?? I still feel that I am not enough, as you would say. I probably am about 20 lbs over weight, I think I am 50 lbs over weight. I do not feel attractive inside or out. I am trying hard though to find the things I do like about myself.<BR>I too had secreats from childhood, that have finally come to light. I am still trying to deal with them though. Probably another reason why I hate myslef so much.<P>Thanks so much. Please do write some more. If you would like you can Email me anytime as well. Sennmiller@earthlink.net. <BR>Thanks. Sherry

Hi Sherry,<P>I just sent you an email. Talk to you later.<P>Take Care