I am totally confused and struggling to make the right decision.<P>A little background. DDay #1 was 12/10/00. Unbelievable plan A for 4 months then DDay #2. I was crushed and we spent the next few months LB. I have not had an angry outburst for about 2 months. W and I have become better friends lately than we ever have. Even with that our M has not improved or should I say that W still can't/won't fill my needs. She made a comment that no one person can fulfill another persons needs. That is frustrating. I've continually given her everything she's asked for and tons more that she has not asked for. She has been trying to give but none of the things I am asking for.<P>Now, before you take that as blame don't. <P>Two nights ago we went to dinner. We had both been talking about seperating lately and I came in prepared to do it friendly and productivly. Before I started I told her about the one last thing in my past that I felt guilty about. I had and EA a few years ago. It wasn't a strong one but I felt it crossed the line and I wanted her to hear it from me if it ever came out. I am actually quite embarassed about it. I had previously revealed this to her but she cut me off and said that is nothing compared to what she has done. At the time I let it be swept under the rug but I didn't feel that I was honest so I decided to give full disclosure. She basically said the same thing but I insisted on giving her full disclosure. I then told her how I thought we could seperate, still remain friends and share financial and child custody arrangements.<P>Then the floodgates opened. She started telling me about something that happened to her when we were first married. Out of respect for her I won't post what happened but it was obvious that this event has been pushed down deep and she's never dealt with it. She's just started back into couseling and has not even told the counselor about this. I'm the only one that knows other than a friend she had years ago. She then opened up to me and shared her feelings about OM. She told me that she knows that it will never work out but she gave him everything even though she knew it was wrong. She admitted that she still loved him. I don't believe that they have had sexual contact in several months but she did tell me that she was calling him up to two months ago and he has called her about a month ago. After all the lies that I've witnessed I did question it but I really believe she was telling me the truth because of how she just opened up and talked, all I did was listen. She told me that she knows it will be the worst mistake of her life if she lets me go but she knows she has to handle this on her own. I believe in my heart that the A hasn't died and will never die unless I am out of the way. <P>Over the past couple of months I have come to wonder if our lives wouldn't be better off if we could just maintain this friendship. This is something we've never had but it seems that this is as far as it is going to go until the A and her issues are delt with, that could take years. Now that I know of this event I know that I added to her problems. I just wish she could have trusted me enough then to tell me. I know I was much different then though but I know I would have reacted with compassion then just like I did this time. <P>As far as my state of mind goes, I'm ready to get off this sick cycle carousel. I've allowed myself to self-medicate from one thing to another (work, beer, gym, self-help books, running, eating, zoloft, this board, etc.). I know that I've suppressed my needs and I'm vulnerable right now. Maybe I have a lot more work to do on myself. I've made a commitment to myself not to seek anybody else / start dating for at least three months and only at that time if I and my C feel I am healthy and I have let the M go. I know I can't just get out of 15 years of M and jump right into something else. My W is proof of that. <P>W wants to seperate but only at night. I will be leaving in about a month for 5 weeks for some job training for a new business. I thinks she wants to try to get out of this on her own and have me there in case she does. I can't stand the thought of emotionally staying in the M like this any longer. I have told her this several times (in a nice way)but she just walks away without comment. I know this won't be solved in two months. Regardless of the M, I want to do what is best (not right) for my W. Help.<P><BR>who

I am not sure what advice to give... Sorry!!<P>It sounds like you do need to seperate / plan B, something in order to preserve your lovebank.<P>Just stay firm. Do what is best for you, and that in turn will allow your W to do what is best for her. You can't do what's best for her, only she can and you can accept it...<P>HbH

Thanks HBH,<P>I'm going to think about doing what's best for me. I've never been that way but maybe I need to quit doing the same thing over and over.<P><BR>SNL, Lex, Trueheart, Marrisa, <P>I'm sitting on the fence. Need a push.<P><BR>who<P>

I really hesitate to advise you WHO, cuz I'm feeling so cynical right now.<P>I wish I wish I wish that my H would just be my friend. I wish that he would stop fighting for me. I wish he would stop fighting with me. I wish we could have a calm discussion of how to end things. I wish he would be ok with moving on.<P>I don't think there is anything at all that you can do to make your wife do the things you want her to do. You're just gonna have to let her make her own mistakes, learn her own lessons.<P>Do what would be best for you. And if that means separating, do it the best way you can.

Thanks for the reply lex,<P>I guess I know the answer to the thread asking how you are. Sorry, I hope it gets better. Just do the best YOU can with dealing with your H. <P>I'm in a weird place. I still have hope for my M but I think if it's going to happen it will happen down the road. I think I finally believe that my wife wants time and space to get herself straightened out. I used to think that all she wanted when she asked that was to feel free to get together with OM while keeping me around if it didn't work out for them. Why is it so hard for us to see that the WS might really be telling the truth when they say that? <P>I feel good that we are becoming closer as friends and we're not doing it for the kids sake. That hasn't come up one time. Kinda makes it feel real. <P>I'm still scared but if it was meant to be it will happen someday and we'll both now. You don't know how hard that was for me to say.<P>Keep your head up lex.<P><BR>who

who-<BR>just wanted you to know that I am out here and listening. Like I said to OOOO, try to fight the good fight, keep your chin up, and work on yourself. Marriages can be saved, but it will take a long, long time. Just trying to give some encouragement.... she DID open up to you. That is refreshing. Please don't act out of anger, give it some time. <P>I'm sending prayers for you.<BR>Debbie<BR>

who, keep in mind I am an unconventional thinker, maybe I am just an idiot as some suggest, or maybe I am in fog (unfortuneately I have been this way all my life), or maybe I have some insight, and native skills, into how human beings are put together. I dunno, read at your own risk.<P>I believe all this effort at MB and marital salvation can become a game, and lose touch with reality.......note I said CAN, it is a very good framework, but ANYTHING can become obssessive. Divorce is an end..... but it is also a BEGINNING, it is not to be feared, or avoided at all cost. Nor is a mistake in this arena necessarily fatal (whether staying when one should leave, or leaveing when one should stay). Life is a process, and living it is a tapestry, lots of threads lots of paths to get there from here.<P>I think everything has a season, if you have done the work, and the results have not been what you find acceptable, then move on, self-medicating even with MB is not healthy. There is no sin, no ill, in giving up, a wise man knows when enuf is enuf too...... people here keep saying insanity is doing the same thing over and over when it does not work. But only you can decide. <P>re your marriage, what do you really really want, deep deep down? If it is now not to be married, then act on it, no regrets close the book and do not look back even when tempted. Even if you err, you have grown and healed, and will be well in your life. If you truly want this woman, then the ultimate tough love is to send her away, until she can find her way back......so start the divorce process, seperating, disconnecting....not plan b, plan D. Reconcilliation is a journey a path, some ws are immediately drawn back, others take effort, others have to lose everything first....so you walk the path, where on the path are you who? Decide, then act on it. If you are at the point where seperation takes place, then don't look ahead, or back to some other wishful place, elsewise you might fall in a hole, or get et by a bear just ahead..... you know what to do who, we all do, after we do the work, and you have done the work. I am at a different point, I have work to do, and I do it here, this is part of my work, and when it is time I will know it.... I have already journeyed a long ways, some you all see, some you all do not understand, because it is about me, no one can live each of our lives but us. One thing that has helped me who is exploring my relationship with God, why am I in this place, what does it mean, what should I do......interestingly He spoke to me, I think. I lay in bed one night about 3 months ago, agonizing over what to do, what to do, much like you sound like who. To make it short, suffice to say I knew I had to give up control, I could not analyze myself out of this. There was not going to be a conclusion. I knew I had to let the ow go too, to find her own destiny, if we were ever to be, it would be in some different place in some different time. And I had to do right by my w, help her heal, but then be radically honest about us, in all ways. Nor could I count on a outcome, be it a new love with w, or pine away for ow, or some other ow who would be the perfect fit. This sounds easy, it is not, it is tremendously difficult, I have to give up my fear, my idea that I know what is best, I have to trust no matter what happens God loves me, always will. He will carry that emotional load that was killing me, and will take care of me long as I trust Him. How do I trust him? By loving myself, doing whatever it is that makes Joseph be Jospeh, trust my instincts, and be not afraid. God placed me here for a reason, at this place in my life, my job is to discern his will, and that is what I try to do. Am I successful? Sometimes, how do I tell? By the state of my heart, that is where God speaks to us I think. <P>Are you trying to be in control who? Maybe it is time to let go, and in so doing will find your place. If one does not have a marriage, (a dynamic I won't debate in this thread) then move on, and trust God will provide the solution of what is to be. Anyways that is my advice, beating a dead horse just makes a big mess on you, and does nothing for the horse.

who -<BR>please pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

ewo,<P>Thanks for the reply. I know I have a ways to go on myself. That will never end. <P>I've never really paid attention when my wife says "you're not listening". Well, until A anyways. Even after the A I didn't listen when I was angry. It took me 6 months to figure that out. We all know how painfull it is to be in this position. I guess that is why I'm thinking about seperating. For the first time in my life I think I'm giving my W what she needs and wants. I know my limitations though. I can't and won't continue to put my heart and emotions on the line while she is still in love with OM. <P>We're headed to counseling in a few minutes. We've decided to finish the conversation in front of the C.<P>One thing to think about. "Fight for your marriage".<BR>I think I've fought as hard as anybody could. I realized that I've been fighting the wrong way. <P><BR>who<P>