I realize that talking about money is probably one of the last taboos of the modern age But I was really curious about what the average family is spending on groceries and miscellaneous expenses per month. <P>My H now takes care of paying the household bills (I handled this for the 10 years' prior to 2001) and now I have this budget that I'm supposed to be able to survive on and I'm having a difficult time of it. <P>I do not wish to debate the aspects of H's handling the finances and all that. This is what we're doing now and there have been many benefits to this new arrangement., <P>But my expenses are: groceries, clothing, household items, and miscellaneous things like: art and school type materials for the kids, etc., Occasional lunches out, etc.<P>I am expected to cover all this on $600.00 a month. <P>I need to buy the kids new snowboots and snow pants. I have priced this at several different locations and if I bought these things at L.L. Bean or J.C. Penney, it would be anywhere between $150-$200, easy. <P>That doesn't include the 2 dress shirts my son needs (approx $25.00) or the dress shoes ($25-$30). As you can tell by the prices I am not going crazy here. I am not shopping at high-end places. <P>I am going to see if I can find cheaper stuff (for the snow clothes) at Target or Wal-Mart since the kids will be growing out of these things in a season anyway.....<P>Nonetheless....<P>Last week was payday, and I already spent $200 between grocery shopping and Wal Mart, where I bought household supplies, and some sweat-type clothes for the kids ($5.96 each piece). That's over the amount of budgeted $150.00 a week! Argh <P>I am trying to be frugal...but it's not easy. I realize now that I should get better at trying to buy winter things at the beginning of the spring season...I guess, but I wasn't even able to buy sweat clothes at our local Wal Mart until recently. <P>???? <P>Sounds crazy? :O<P>Am I just ridiculous here? Is $600 a lot to have to spend on these things? Am I not being frugal enough? <P>(BTW) My H makes between $70k-100k per year (means take home is what? $40k-$70k ? ) We have plenty of bills to pay, debts to pay off, and regular expenses that eat into our income....We don't take vacations, the last time we bought something for the house was 2 years ago, We don't have new cars, expensive clothes..you get the picture. <P>I need help with trying to get the things we need on $600 a month. I have talked to H about upping that amount, but he says we cannot afford more and he wants me to try to stay within that budget for now. <P>What are you all spending for household and kids type things per month? <P>God Bless,<BR>Lisa<BR>

Have you tried yard sales?<P>I get $600 a month and off the top goes $50 a week to gas. The budget sounds semi-reasonable. <P>Just hang in there. Tax refund season is coming.

Browneyedgirl,<P>I don't think $600 a month is a lot. Look at it this way, it is only $7200 a year for the major components of life: food and clothing. Out of 40-50K this doesn't seem like a lot. I would suggest that you itemize your costs and projected spending and present it to your H.<P>I am not implying that he is mishandling things, but he may not be aware of the cost of things at the level of detail that you have to deal with them. It is also true as the children get older they consume more and their clothing and toys cost more. My bet is that he is not aware of what these things really cost. <P>I am always astounded at what a bag of groceries costs especially when it isn't groceries but things like paper products and just stuff. Man, what an eye opener.<P>So itemize, and propose what you think it will really cost. Then agree to this budgeted amount. If you can save some money on these things from time to time,put it in an account for a rainy day, when something costs more or someone needs to go to the prom.<P>Being a guy, I would bet your H will be persuaded by the numbers. They are truely staggering these days.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Brown-eyed Girl--<P>No, I wouldn't say $600.00 is reasonable.<P>In our paper recently they printed that a family of 4--2 adults/2 kids would expect to pay $638 for food and $429 for misc...additionally housing was $836, taxes--$608, health care--$435, childcare--$810 and transportation--$494<P>This was for Riverside, SanBernardino, Orange and Ventura counties...<P>My H and I both thought that these figures were relatively low...and you might have to adjust for cost-of-living for your area...<P>The source of the info was the California Budget Project a nonprofit advocacy group.<P>Hope this helps.<BR>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

I'm not sure we are an average HH, but I'll answer your questions anyway. Background...Family of 4, kids 9 & 15; live in a big city. Groceries are $90-100ish 2-3 weeks a month, more like $150 once a month when I stock up freezer, etc.<P>Kids clothes. Let's see. Just bought school clothes for 9 year old (they wear uniforms there), was $120 for 5 days worth of outfits + sweater. Add 2 pairs of tennies, some church dresses/shoes, boots, coat, playclothes...mostly bought at the local dept store's big sale days, I'd bet she costs $400 to outfit for fall/winter. (Summer is pretty cheap, lots of T-s and shorts from Target.). <P>The 15 year old is male, and pretty cheap to equip, except for Scout stuff (hiking boots, sleeping bag, etc). Both kids are not brand conscious & hate status-y stuff, thank goodness. <P>Add up groceries, & everything else that you need, and I don 't think $600/month is high at all.<P>Kathi

Okay BrownEyedGirl,<P>Have you tried E-Bay for buying the kids snow stuff. It's a great place to find bargains and you can bid what you can afford.<P>Goto: <A HREF="http://www.EBay.com" TARGET=_blank>www.EBay.com</A> <P>I hope this helped you, Hon.<P>Lv,<BR>Jo<BR>

One more thing...nothing helped my H understand where the money went until he actually came shopping with me... or I gave him the receipts...<P>and I am a coupon-clipper, Wal-Mart & Outlet bargain shopper!<P>LITERALLY OPENED HIS EYES!<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Here ya go, Hon:<P>Kids Snowpants: <A HREF="http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=Snowpants" TARGET=_blank>http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=Snowpants</A> <P><BR>Kids Snowboots: <A HREF="http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=Snowboots" TARGET=_blank>http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=Snowboots</A> <P> Jo

Kam6318:<P>Here's camping stuff for your son:<P>Sleeping Bags: <A HREF="http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&pb=&ht=1&st=2&query=Sleeping+Bags&SortProperty=MetaEndSort" TARGET=_blank>http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&pb=&ht=1&st=2&query=Sleeping+Bags&SortProperty=MetaEndSort</A> <P>Back Packs: <A HREF="http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&pb=&ht=1&st=2&query=Back+Packs&SortProperty=MetaEndSort" TARGET=_blank>http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&pb=&ht=1&st=2&query=Back+Packs&SortProperty=MetaEndSort</A> <P>Hiking Boots: <A HREF="http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&pb=&ht=1&st=2&query=Hiking+Boots&SortProperty=MetaEndSort" TARGET=_blank>http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&pb=&ht=1&st=2&query=Hiking+Boots&SortProperty=MetaEndSort</A> <P>Jo

Thank you all <P>I will check out the various links. I have not only shown my H receipts, but he's around occasionally when we have to grocery shop, etc., <P>He HATES it! He looks like he's in the dentists' chair everytime I bring up money or needing something. <P>There's some really weird psychological component to all this. He wants to be generous, but now that HE has the numbers running around in HIS head, it's almost painful (and would be funny, if it didn't affect my day to day needs!) for him to have to think about these things!!<P>Argh., <P>I'm going to tell him how much this will all cost tonight and see what he says. <P>God Bless,<BR>Lisa

Here I go with a book to suggest:<P>Living on Less and Liking it More -- Maxine Hancock<P>(It's a Christian book, by the way)<P>I don't think $600 is enough to do all you've said -- food alone, esp. as the kids get older, is soooooo expensive. Do you make things from scratch? I am learning to do that, since I'm home, and it's amazing how much food money you can save.<P>Do check out thrift stores for clothes (I've gotten some excellent bargains)... I know, it seems icky, but I'll tell ya, it saved my life during the really lean years.<P>Best wishes... <P>Money... ick... but ya gotta have it to live, eh?! <BR>

We had several fights about this several years ago. I was spending too much cash and breaking the bank (according to W). So, I took 2 years of checkbook and C-card bills and reconstructed exactly what we spent on stuff.<P>Family of 5: D-5, S-10, S-12 (3 years ago)<P>Average Monthly expenses:<P>Groceries + fast food: $640<BR>Kid's lunchs (school): $50<BR>Clothes: $200<P>And we do Walmart/Kmart (sales!).<P>Did your H base the $600 on reality or just pull it out of the air?<P>Jeffers<P><BR>

Well I will say it!!! This PI$$ES me off. H makes $70-100K per year and only gives a measly $600.00 a month. Come on people. This may be ok if all you eat are beans, potatos, and mac and cheese. Which I am sure you eat plenty of. <P> I would want to see bills for every expense you have for the family. Find out where the money is going that he won't give more than $600 a month for food, clothes, school supplies, etc. THAT SUCKS!!!<P> Find out where the rest of the pay goes. <P> jd

The $600 would be too low in Pittsburgh, which is less expensive than almost anywhere in CA. My wife is real good with grocery store coupons, Kmart type stores, consignment stores, and so on. We have 3 kids aged 5 to 10. I would think $900 is more like it for here. Although we are spending a little more than that right now.<P>One way to cut costs, besides a limit on fast food outings, is avoid most of the quick prepared packages and the junk food at the grocery store. Both are expensive. This is one area where we aren't doing as well as in the past.

What does he do with the rest of the money? I live in CA also. It takes a more than that just to buy groceries for a family & gas. If you add day care, utilities, mortgage, insurance, etc. $4k, easy. <P>Frugal? It is a neccessity around here even when the salary looks good. Let him pay the bills. But see where he is spending his money. Is he cashing his checks and not making regular deposits? Keep your family expenses on a spreadsheet by month. Real eye opener. <P>Then let him see. It is hard to dispute hard figures. They try but your internal calculator would have to be broken. <P>I keep a spreadsheet, it reduces the oppportunity to LB since you are just sharing the facts. How you share it is the trick.<P>L. <BR>

BrownEyedGirl,<P>I'm not sure what my W has to spend is going to help you. We all have to work with what we have, and you have to make that work for you. If $600 a month is reasonable or not, is relative on where your spend is. <P>For example, if your H is netting $40K-$70K, say an average of $50K a year, that's ca. $4,160 a month that you have available. If you're anything like a normal family, a budget might look like the following:<P>House: 40% of net $1,660 <BR>Utilities: 5% of net $ 210<BR>Health: 10% $ 420<BR>Auto: 15% $ 625<BR>Basics: 14% $ 600<BR>Savings: 10% $ 410<P>Total: $3,925<P>So, you've about $200 left before you hit your ceiling. So on these figures, you might be able to squeeze an extra $200 from the budget and then that's it.<P>Because the economy is pretty tight at the moment me and my W won't get into ANY debt. This means, if we can't pay cash, we don't buy. We're also taking steps to re-build and strengthen our cash position - so 'savings' is on our budget as a priority for both of us.<P>That might be one thing you could do, try and agree the budget between the two of you - but that'll depend on whether you can agree priorities. Which brings me to another point. <P>Could it be that your H is anxious about something? Why don't you talk with him about what his concerns. If he's anything like me he'll be nervous about the security of his job and workplace - and I work in the computer industry which has been robust and boom for the past 20 years !!!! So that says something. And I don't like to talk about how I feel - for men, it's a point of pride that our ability to provide for the family is threatened. It brings out the neanderthal in us.<P>It's a tight economy out there - and what with the prospect of a war looming - I'm even more anxious.<P>Good luck,<P>- Freddy<P>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited September 27, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited September 27, 2001).]

You know, the brochure for divorce in Indiana says that the children are not supposed to lose their standard of living. As far as I'm concerned, he wants out - he should have to struggle.<P>The lawyer says the child support alone should be about $1300 a month - and that is set by the courts (and he makes about 100k) - and then he's asking for maintenance for me since I've been a loving, faithful stay-at-home mom for many years now. For the interim my lawyer wants me to pay all the bills - that way I know they're being paid! - and after the divorce he'll get all the debt and I'll get a lump sum and move on.<P>Oh yeah, one of my kids is a 6'1", 185 lbs 15 year old - read lots of groceries. I've "asked" for $800 a month for groceries.<P>Maybe it's time to talk to a lawyer and take some of his control away? By the way, lawyers are usually willing to talk to women without cash-up-front, because they're planning to get it from the husband in the end. The guys, though, can't get in the door without a retainer fee.<P>Good Luck.

Lisa:<P>For our family of five, we're probably at the $800-$1000/month on the so-called "house-hold" items that you've discussed. The only thing that's been eating into our budget is that the older kids are enjoying riding lessions---we were doing 2x week at $30/lesson, and that was working out to about $500/month. They're cut down to once a week right now, and my wife's "dog budget" is down to $0. I try to hold the line on my "expenses"---I don't eat out at work, for example (a bagel and a couple pieces of fruit for lunch from the local store---under $2/day).<P>I handed over the budgeting and bill paying to my wife about two years ago, and she's doing terrific. I hated that job with a passion.

I talked to my H last night and said what I've said before (to him) as well as what I said on this forum yesterday. The amount he's isolated is just not enough. <P>I read something yesterday about how one of the biggest problems in many marriages is the handling and discussing of finances and that it's in fact responsible for more arguments and divorces than anything else., <P>That said...I think we made some progress. He acknowledged that he realized that wasn't enough for our needs., He said that he's been trying to pay down our debt, and I guess now I also have to remember that he's trying to put something together to run his own business within the next year, so he's trying to get us into a position where we can do that. <P>I said I needed to be able to renegotiate things and he said that we will sit down and do that soon (he's out of town for the next few days). He said he hates how much things cost, but he does realize food / clothes are expensive. <P>I talked to him about the fact that I felt I was being reasonable and I try to spend wisely, looking for sales, thinking in terms of "need" vs. "want." He said he knew that..but that it's still a struggle for him at this point. <P>So we agreed we each had our issues...and we talked a bit about the way we grew up, and how our families dealt with money problems: his parents never talked about it, his mother handled the bills and everything and overspent like a wild woman (still does) actually it wasn't just the spending itself, she buys stuff she never wears and had to have a 4th closet built to hold on the things she has !!<P>As I'd said in the first posting....I held the checkbook and oversaw all money decisions for the first 10 years of our marriage. I was/am a very controlling type of person and it stressed me out and made me miserable for years to be constantly monitoring everything. Plus, there was the issue of my H having no direct connection to the money he was bringing home and what our monthly bills really looked like. <P>We moved from one extreme to another extreme this last year...and it's been an adjustment and we agreed we need to develop a little more balance in how we handle things,. <P>We have a joint checking account, and always have, H has the checkbook for the paying of bills, I continue to use a checkcard (atm/visa combo thing) to buy things, but that can be a problem because a) I don't want to have to go to H all the time to see if I can buy something.....and he doesn't want that either....and b) I don't look over H's shoulder to watch what the account balance says, what bills are out etc., and I don't care to. <P>This "exercise" was an issue of trust for me....I had never trusted my H in these matters prior to handing over the checkbook and it created a lot of tension and strain for me to be controlling all that, as I explained earlier. <P>My H never questioned me, never supervised my spending, never checked up on me when I was in charge of the bills, and so I've worked really hard to extend that confidence to him in this situation. <P>I know that are bills are being paid, things are up to date, and that our credit cards and other debts are consistantly being paid down. So that's a good thing. <P> <P>H said last night at the end of our conversation, that what he's wanted to do and will do within the next couple weeks, is to move our bill paying checking account over to our credit union, and then have me use the regular checking account for my expenses and he will deposit money directly into that account for that purpose., We will talk further and agree upon an amount at that time., <P>I want at least $200 more per month....so I'll start out suggesting $400 more, whaddaya think?!!! <P>Lisa<p>[This message has been edited by BrownEyedGirl (edited September 27, 2001).]

P.S. <P>I just saw another question about what my H does with the rest of the money....<P>He pays bills. We have two car loans (one's almost paid off) we have a couple credit cards, a mortgage, then of course insurances, car-related things, phone, electricity, and all the other stuff that everyone else has., <P>He doesn't buy himself things, at all, (and neither did/does his father, btw) except his daily sodas and cigarettes About, $6.00 a day, I guess. <P>Lisa