My WS finally had another meeting with her therapist after 6+ weeks. As a result she asked to meet with me to talk after work. We had a long and honest discussion about her session last night. The most important issue that came out of it was that her therapist says that for most people, once they reach the point in a marriage where they disconnect emotionally (i.e. fall out of love, pre-A) and then continue the marriage for whatever reason it is very difficult for them to ever get back to where they were pre-disconnect. She has admitted me that she disconnected a number of years ago (long before the A). Her therapist did indicate, however, that if there is a chance of recovery that both parties should enter into joint therapy asap. She seemed to be saying that there was a chance for us and would I be interested. I took this as a good sign. However, it was tempered by the fact that even though my WS says she wants to try therapy there is still a big part of her that is not committed the process. She is not sure, without joint therapy, if she will ever be able to re-commit totally. Up until now I have asked her to be committed to recovery before embarking on the process. I said that I understand her position and hoped for more of a committment before we started recovery but I'm thinking that this may be all I get for now. Unfortunately, as we discussed the possibility of starting therapy she indicated that although she is no longer seeing the OM and that they are now back to be "just friends" she still is in regular phone and e-mail contact with him. I re-explained my position on the OM, that all contact must be ended before I'll start recovery/joint therapy. I think I did the right thing but now I'm second guessing myself. What should I expect before agreeing to go into therapy? WS indicated that she hoped that the joint therapy would result in her being able to eliminate OM from her life. I said that it sounded like I was going into the recovery process without a safety net while she wanted to have one. Am I crazy? Have I over-reached?

I think you did exactly the right thing. You need to set boundaries going in to protect yourself and there is no hope of recovery as long as she is still in contact with the OM. It is a destructive relationship that has almost destroyed your marriage and it needs to end. Just tell her if OM is really only a "friend" that you can invite him over for dinner and you can all be "friends."

If he is a real friend he will know how important it is for him to step aside so you both can get on with your life. She needs to have a clear head when in counseling, not colored with his influence.<BR>You were absolutly right in what you said.<BR>Maybe you could comprimise any way though. How about you go to counseling for 4 months without any promises on either side - no pressure for a decision- and she agrees to no contact for this same amount of time,to have a clear view of what she wants?<BR>Encourage her to post here as well, no one will be mean to her and she will get wholesome advice(marriage BUILDER advice)

You did the right thing. How can she expect to go to counseling and still have contact with OM? I agree with Dana114 and sadprincess. Remember baby steps this is a positive sign that she is willing to do this but you have to set some boundaries for yourself. Good luck. Keep hanging in there. We are all here for you.<BR>

Thanks Dana114 and sadprincess for the help. I've thought about using the "if he's really a friend then he would step aside..." approach but I can't imagine that I could say it without it coming out sarcastically (A major LB). As far as inviting OM for dinner, I don't think so. I'm intrigued by the idea of a trial period of therapy. What about expectations? If it turns out that there is no chance that we can really make significant progress in that time do I set us up for failure by allowing an "out" too early? A trial period seems like I'm sending a mixed message as far as committment is concerned, i.e. "I'm ready for us to go to work, for the long haul, but here is an out after x amount of time". She can always bail out any time she wants anyways. I feel like I'm walking a very fine line here between possible success and possible failure.

Here I am responding to myself. I'm not sure what that means but here goes. I awoke this morning to a realization. Evenm if she cuts off all contact with the OM we are still not any further in the Plan A process than we were a month ago. After a couple of months of self-analysis my wife seems to have emotionally stripped away the A for what it really was, a very poor decision and a temporary fix at best. However, given that realization, my WS's primary focus is still on living the life that she wants for herself. If it happens that she falls back in love with me during recovery then great. There has been no realization on her part to do what is right, to honor her committment to me, to be my wife, etc. I don't think that there is even a burning need to be married at all. Yesterday, again I tried to explain to her how I feel about marriage and the committment that I gave to her but she looked at me like I was some sort of nut. She says that she feel that puts too much pressure on her. What it tells me is that we have drastically different views of what marriage and committment are all about. I feel like that she has a lifestyle that she wants to live and if I happen to be the man that fits in with that the best then I'm the winner! I would think that a key to recovery is wanting to do it. My WS doesn't sound like a very motivated person at this point. Am I expecting too much at this point? Is this my pride getting in the way of sound judgement? Is Plan B the only option? Should I expect the fog to lift any more than it has so far?

StillHangin,<P>If your W is anything like mine, she won't react to arguments like the marriage committment she made. Like us, women react to having their needs met. The guy that fulfills her needs, wins. And this guy could be you.<P>Have you got His Needs Her Needs by Harley. There's a questionaire at the back of this book which you can both fill out. This way, you'll begin to understand what her most important needs are and how you are living up to her expectations.<P>- Freddy

Freddy, thanks for the input. I have read His Needs Her Needs twice and Surviving an Affair three times. I have been trying to follow Harley's principals from d-day. Unfortunately, even though my W has read SAA she has not yet bought into Harley's theory that love is need-based. I realize that one of the goals of Plan A'ing is to show her that I am the one that she should be with forever. I've been Plan A'ing my butt off for 3 months now and I can't even get her to end contact with the OM. She said yesterday that she didn't understand how important the "no contact" rule was to me. Maybe that's the fog talking but I don't understand how she could mis-interpret my position on no contact. Anyways, I made my position very clear yesterday w/o resorting to LB's. I've told her that the next move is up to her. I told her that I won't begin joint counselling until all contact has been ended. I'll try, again, to focus on the positives here. At least she still has enough interest and energy to want to try therapy. I'll hang onto that for now and hope that contact with the OM is ended soon.

StillHangin,<P>The no contact is important for the both of you. It'll give your W a chance to get her head out of the fog and it'll give your marriage a chance.<P>Mmmm, she's definitely in the fog. Is there a chance the OM could LB? What's his situation? Could we create a situation where he LBs? And you've gotta keep inside a good PlanA. What can you do that the OM can't? I was giving flowers, going to dinner and doing everything I could to keep her busy and away from her OM. <P>- Freddy

Freddie, this is a very confusing stage for me right now. As I said, I told her that I would not go to therapy until no-contact was in place and I plan to stick to that. However, I think that I'm sending mixed signals within Plan A by being the loving supportive husband while OM is still in the picture. Should I continue Plan A'ing full bore even though no-contact may not have happened yet? If I do that, what's her incentive to enact no-contact? Do I continue Plan A but hold out on therapy until no-contact? As far as OM is concerned I don't know much about him. My guess is that at this point he is pretty much untouchable. However, I'm not sure that I need to do anything more. I really believe that the EA is over for now. I e-mailed her this morning that I would like us to exchange ENq's. No response yet. If I can get her to tell me her EN's then I think I have a chance to move forward. Any advice on what to do next? Thanks again, Freddy. I dream everyday that someday my W has the same coming out of the fog epiphany as you did.