I told him the other day when we had our conversation that I was giving it 6 months and if things hadn't changed I was quitting. The biggest problem is getting through those 6 months. No, he's not going to change if I withdraw. I don't think--he has tended to get closer to me if he thinks I'm about to give up. The time I told him I wasn't going to be emotionally involved with him anymore because it hurt too bad, he told me he missed me after about two days. I just hope I have it in me. I feel starved for attention and love from my husband. I get hugs and smooches from my kids, but that isn't the same. I am afraid if things don't change quickly that I'm going to end up a shell who is all dried up. How can I prevent that from happening since I already feel so lonely. A human can only take so much before she collapses.

BTW Dumplin, Harley says you should always have a plan to follow. Now I know you're in Plan A, but what I suggest is a sub-plan within Plan A's guidelines. <P>Jo

I know how you feel, I know how much you need his affection, if you're like me it's as essential as air or water to you ... I can't survive without it .... or I thought, but I have, somehow I have. <P>I'm sorry Hon, and I know you wouldn't want him to be affectionate if it's forced, that would suck. He has to WANT to, and I think the only way he'll get there is if he feels in-love feelings for you, and meeting his needs should get him there. It takes time ... it took a long time to get here, it's gonna take some time to fix it.<P>Sorry I keep coming back to this, Dumplin. But do you have your H's EN list? Have you made any strides in meeting the top two, has he given you any unsolicited feedback?<P>Jo<p>[ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]

Dumplin,<P>Are you okay, sweetie?<P>Jo

No, I'm not okay. I had already turned off my computer to come home when you replied. On the way home, I took the time to think. Someone on a motorcycle passed me and I thought "God to be free" and almost started crying. I'm stuck between wanting things to work out and thinking what a relief it would be if I just gave up and left. I'm so tired and lonely. Yes, having affection is like having air. Without it, I'm going to wither up and die--it'll just take longer than air would. I'm to the point where I want it to be right or be over. The weight is bearing down on me and my knees are starting to buckle from trying to stand up. So, no, I'm not okay.<P>H just got a call from another club in "her" state and he's all excited because the guy is interested. I can't even find it in me to be excited for him or the band. At least I have the comfort of it only being a one night show so they probably won't stay there. Can't even bring myself to make a smart comment right now.

Dumplin,<BR>Hi. I've been reading this post for a few days, and now I'm jumping on!! Hope nobody minds. Listen, I know you're having a hard time right now, and I know all about the musician thing you guys are all talking about (mine's in a band too). And I know how good it feels to just let it all out, just like you're doing here, needs to come out somewhere doesn't it??!!<P>But are you also listening to Jo (hi Jo! Remember me?)? Somebody has to start this moving in the right direction, and right now, it's not going to be your H, I don't think. It's completely unfair to you, but it's what's been handed to you right now. You gotta do it hon. Fighting him right now, or expecting to get your needs met in the way you want them to be is just not going to work (* * * -that's me jumping up & down stomping my feet b/c I know how fair it's NOT!!). It sucks. <P>But can I tell you what else? It works sometimes. I did it. I was on here pretty regular in the winter & spring of this year, and now we're doing so, so much better. It really does work. I didn't have any questionaires to follow, just did what I knew, and if that didn't work, I did something else. I'm still doing it. . matter of fact, just in the last few weeks or so, I could see that I was slipping a little in the things I was doing for him, and I could feel us slipping back into some of the old patterns (still learning here!). . .so, I laid it on again, and in just a few days, I'm hearing all the time, how much he loves me, how much he misses me when he's away, I'm getting emails (he HATES to write emails).<P>Do you see sweetie? In the beginning, it took all I had to give him what I knew he needed, but after a while, it actually made ME feel good, even though I wasn't getting much back from him at the time. It made ME feel good, even if all I got was a small smile from him and no acknowledgement of how it made him feel, or how he felt about me. I made it my goal, and I could see that I was achieving it, even if it was slow, even if it was all by myself, in the beginning. It's not all by myself now, and it can be that way for you too.<P>Get determined, get motivated, however you can. Get pissed about it, not at him, just pissed. You can do it, it may go against your grain for a while, but it kinda grows on you! And if, just if, it doesn't work, or you don't like it, or decide sometime in the future you don't want this anymore, you'll know how hard you tried, you'll know you really gave it your all.

Hi everyone.<P>Yea, I'm married to a mucisian too. I saw this and had to read every word of every page. I have read so many things I have thought, said, lived. <P>Dumplin' I don't know your story except this post, but I don't feel like I have to to comletely sympathise with you, because I've lived it honey.<P><BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dumplin'}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>We all love you here that is for sure. I'm so glad for this place, and fairy dust and snow white, you guys helped me out alot whether you know it or not, and I am esp. grateful to you!<P>I don't have alot to add, but thanks for the awesome thread!!

Hello Dumplin', and I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner. I work long hours at the end of the week so that I can have the my 4 days off. I usually just check in after shift. <P>Sorry I was so brief in my questions. What I meant was jus that, what do you want? Short of the obvious answer, what else makes you very happy? What have you done for yourself lately? In my experience (which I realize may be drastically different from yours) I was stagnant because I was so obsessed with his every move. What was he doing? Who had he called? Wherre was he going? That constant wondering made me miserable and unable to do anything. I needed to turn that around and focus instead on me, on my happiness and my needs apart from him. <P>As I understand it a good Plan A includes a lot of working on yourself, making yourself a better person, the person that you know you are deep inside, while being as sweet as pie to him. That way, once your self chosen time limit in Plan A runs out, you are ideally either strong enough to carry on and keep working on the M or confident enough to give it up to God. He will notice that he is no longer the center of your universe at some point, and he will realize how wonderful you truly are and put his effort back into the M. That's the ideal anyway. And if not, you will have built the strength within yourself to go on without him because YOU will realize how wonderful you really are! Just MHO.<P>Snow<P>PS: Scared, thank you for the kind words. We are all here to help each other and it's wonderful knowing that something I've contributed has helped at least one person. What a great place we've found!

Anna, sweetheart, this is one of those responses that will hopefully make you smile, while I'm booting yer butt back into play! Now I just lost my job, grrrr, and I think it's because of my H's job and I'm in a foul mood, lol. But I wanted to reply to you because I'm concerned. <P>You're a smart gal, a wonderful mommy and a willing wife. You love your H and at times have bent over backward in an effort to mend fences. Now you've got us here for any venting, ANY time, so take advantage of us...lay it on thick! But I'll tell ya somethin'. If you don't start biting back those smart-alecky retorts with your H you're just going to make MORE work for yourself! Take my criticism in the well-intentioned way it's meant and remember, I've done those same things too! I UNDERSTAND and am guilty as charged, but that does not make it "right," okay? <P>My H would pop off with something to me, I'd pop right back, and where did that leave us. Better? Nope! Still in the game of who made more points off the last hateful remark and *I* was actually making the situation worse! *I* was the one chanting we needed to work on a better relationship and acting just as badly as he was! Was I expecting HIM to see the light and treat me better while nursing his own resentments? Darn silly of me. He was the one going more logically with the flow, as downhill as it was. *I* had to start the ball rolling upward!<P>And so do you. I want you to start thinking about your H's comments before you comment back, for example, him saying you only say you love him because he's dying. What is he actually saying/wanting? If you don't understand, ask him what he meant, and ask him NICELY. And stop callin' him "roomie," he may take that as what you actually want! It takes a very enlightened man to understand a woman's word play. If they're already upset they'll take a negative response for just that -- negative! And they usually don't KNOW how to make it better, they just feel defeated and cornered. That's getting you noooooo closer to the intimacy you want with that man. Stop being your own worst enemy. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<P>Please don't be mad at me. I'm just seeing your situation from over here, and tossing suggestions from the been there/done that peanut gallery. Review your Plan A technique and above all, avoid those lovebusters! Everyone is giving you great advice. Tell us what you're thinking. TELL us how unfair it all is -- we know, hon, but we want you to see how great things CAN and WILL be once you dust off your behind and tackle the problems with renewed energy. Hang in there! Hugs.<P>Laura

uhhuh, uhhuh,uhhuh ...<P>You so ROCK, Lucks!<P>Ohhhhhh Dumplin .... get in here and tell us whats going on ... please.<P>Jo<p>[ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]

Nothing is really going on. I know I have to stop making the smart comments back. I may bite the end of my tongue off, but oh well I can still type. At least, then I couldn't make a smart remark, huh??<P>I'm doing better--not great, but better. Got a new desk today at work and have been rearranging everything all day--just got my computer plugged back in.<P>Thanks to everyone for listening. Yes, I will try to curb my tongue (without biting it off) and not return his remarks.

What am I supposed to think when someone signs his guestbook on his web site and he changes their response? He told me to ask some people up here at work to sign his guestbook and a lady up here put that she had heard of his band from his wife and HE ERASED IT. He left the rest of her message, but erased that one line. What does anyone think of that crap? By the way, it is not mentioned anywhere on his site that he is married.

He is being so sneaky. Or he "thinks" he is. <P>Sounds like he may be playing a game called "I'm married, but at night I'm single". I think my H invented it.<P>I'm sorry Dumplin, I don't mean to make light of it. I would be just as p/o'd and hurt as you. I can't think of any reasonable explanation to help bail him outta this one. But that doesn't mean there isn't one. <P>When did this happen? I'm asking because if he did it a while ago, I think you should let it go. But if he just did it, then perhaps you two could talk about it, but only if you are sure you won't LB. <P>Dumplin, I was talking to my neighbor ladies last night (some of them are in their mid-60's and married). Every single one of them experienced some degree of infidelity by their H's during their marriage. Some of the stories were very volatile with lots of struggle by mostly the wives. I came to the conclusion that those wives were the ones who kept their marriage glued together, that they were the catalyst of their marriages. I asked them if they regret any of it and if they felt it was worth what they went thru. They all said "yes, it was worth it" without hesitation. They said their marriage NOW is nothing like it was then. It's like a different marriage, they said when they think back it's almost like it wasn't even them.<P>So, point is, it can be done, and there is a wonderful marriage to be had, Dumplin. You just need to resolve that "right now" YOU will have to do most the work to get there.<P>We're rootin for you, Dumplin.<P>Love,<BR>Jo<p>[ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]

It was done today. She just signed the guest book today and he deleted anything to do with wife out of it-must have been right after she did it. It makes me sick. I don't know if I even want to try anymore. I'm sick of being the non-existent wife. Screw him. That's how it's always been when it comes to the band so I don't see it ever changing. I'm sick of it. End of story. End of everything. I went back and put it back on there. The lady told him if he deletes it again, she wants her name completely removed from the guest book along with everyone else here that signed it. What did he think - no one would notice or go back and look?

Well, good for that lady. I'm glad she did that. "SHE" can LB him all she wants, but not you, okay?<P>You can't make such an important decision like "ending your marriage" when you are reactionary, Dumplin. I know you know that, I'm just reminding you. <P>GIve this to God for now. In the meantime, try and calm yourself. Your H is probably expecting you to LB when you get home because I'm sure he suspects you know what he did. <P>Surprise him, and don't LB or better yet .. just don't bring it up right now. <P><B>DUMPLIN, this is sound advice, pls consider what I've recommended</B><P>Keep venting here. RANT, SCREAM, CRY, anything, but don't LB him. <P>Jo

Too late. I already e-mailed him and asked him if he changed it. All I said was she said it wasn't the same as what she had put. I didn't mention her saying she wanted taken off if he changed it back. I didn't mention that I had changed it back even. I'm going to say something that I'll probably regret right now, but here goes. Plan A is BULL. The BS shouldn't have to tiptoe around the WS hoping they come to their senses by being swayed back to the person they CHOSE to marry. The WS needs to get their head out of the butt and figure out what they are doing is WRONG. <BR>They need to get their sh*t straight is what my mother would say. There I vented now. Still feeling like screaming--I'm so glad he's heading out on the road the minute I get home. I think I would probably strangle him if I had to look at him right now. It's just bullcrap completely and he needs to crap or get off the damn pot.

There ya go .. that's what we wanted to hear. Keep it coming ... because I DO KNOW .. it's not friggin FAIR! They (cakemen) SUCK!<P>But ... Plan A does have a very valuable purpose, and it's not being a doormat. You and I will discuss it a bit later tho, okay?<P>Just do me a favor for now and toss this around a bit in your head "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?"<P>Jo

<B>What I want is to be treated like a freaking human that matters and I do exist.</B> Like my H always says, there are plenty of other people out there. I'm so damn mad right now, I am about to break my keyboard typing.

I have to leave work now, but I will be back on in little over an hour. Talk to you ladies later.

[img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <P>Just so everyone knows--he went back in there and deleted it out again. I'm on my way home and I'm about to explode. Wonder if he'd like having to find another vehicle to haul his equipment with?