FYI, i changed my name, for those of you who may have noticed, i was just in the mood for something new, and went for my favorite flower for a while. who knows, i may change it again and again [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <BR> Ok, i'm narrowing the search for answerees. this is for the WS W's and perhaps the BS H's who've been married at least 15 years before the A, and who are over the hill? My dillemma is that i think my problem is reversed and i can't seem to find others in my similar situation. if you read my thread in Just found out and In Recovery, you can catch up on where i'm at. I'm the repentant spouse with a H who is unable/unwilling? to forgive but not kicking me out either. i don't want to leave. i like it here. so, i'm doing all the plan A'g, not him. it seems like its often the BS trying to win back the WS, but in my case its the WS trying to win back my BS. i just want to know if anyone else is at the 4month since DD place and wonder if you are frustrated? at least we are doing things together, having sex almost 5/7, eating as a family, reading the bible together, but he hasn't gone to church since i told him, and he refuses to touch me or be affectionate during daylight hours... anyway, i am in a serious mode of change for me. i told him the other day that i was not going anywhere and that i was aware of the hurt and pain i've caused him over the years. we have done LB'g forever....so, it's alot of work and i'm trying very hard, but just hit a down moment, no its not PMS, i even wonder why the love was so easy with the OM, and why it can't be so easy with us who've been HS sweethearts. guess we've LB'd so much that the romance is dead and the bank is in the negative.... <BR> if you are in a similar situation, please respond. i'd like to know if there are many who have recovered. i know they say that longer marriages have a better chance. i just hope my H isn't faking this for his convenience. i bring alot to this M and he almost can't do this overseas life without me for support. at least not with 3 kids. so?

I am in your situation. My dday was June 2000 after an affair that ended in 1999. Like SKM i could not live with what I did and confessed.<P>Now Almost 2 years later I am the BS. My husband took all the work I did for over a year right into another womans arms..and feels justified and that I should understand cause I was so evil. In fact he is so audacious he thinks it should turn me on that he was with another.<P>We have 2 young children..ages 5 and 9 and I am tired. I was in recovery and not back to nothing. You can read my post to bill uphill the night of August 31 a few hours before I found out the truth.<P>Now my husband thinks I should be all happy he is here..yada yada....<P>Frankly He so abused me mentally for more then 6 months after my confession that I dont know If I love him anymore. If he thought so light about mocking me for so long that he had to go **** someone else....well guess what I am tired. I am tired of saying I am sorry. I am tired of repenting. I am tired for all I did only to get paid back over a year later.<P>Call me bitter..but the man I begged for a chance with again in June 2000 is not this man who lives here now..and frankly I dont know If we are going to make it. He beat me down to a poor point and then hurt me anyway more then he even wants to admit....<P><BR>Now its supposed to all be a joke and I am too be happy......<P>Anyway..I like to remain optimistic but...after WTC attack and such...my marriage is not as important as protecting my childrens future.<P>Hubby if you read this..sorry you made the poor choice you did to put me onto this train of thought.....i hope that [censored] was worth it.

As the BS, I have been doing all the chasing and trying to hold everything together. God,how I wish it would get reversed. I've even been told by therapist to back off. I have to wait for her heart to catch up with her head.<P>I know it isn't fair to continually remind WS of mistake, but it also isn't fair that the BS's tend to do the bulk of the work to keep it together.<P>Not sure I was any help, but couldn't resist putting my 2 cents in. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I WOULD STILL LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE BS WHO IS NOT PLAN A'G AND THE WS WHO IS THE FEMALE AND PLAN A'G LIKE CRAZY..... ARE YOU OUT THERE? <P>Hey Tx, i would not bring up the mistake, it hurts the WS like you would not believe and since you see a therapist i would be getting all the anger and pain out with them. its healthier. last night my BS H, said awful things in front of the kids, like "you got layed over at the neighbors...." and that i hope was not heard or processed by the kids who are between 11-15 and were on the computer or whatever. it is awful to use disrespectful judgements and angry outbursts, i know my BS H is hurt, angry and in pain and since he refuses counseling, he will take it out on me, but i have to be firm and set boundaries and perhaps he can do it at dinner dates. that's better. set dates with your WS. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <P>so, i am trying to be as patient as possible, and none to very little LB'g. the MB rules and philosophy are fabulous and i can see when applied will save my marriage too....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I WOULD STILL LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE BS WHO IS NOT PLAN A'G AND THE WS WHO IS THE FEMALE AND PLAN A'G LIKE CRAZY..... ARE YOU OUT THERE? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ok, I'm "close" to what you're asking for, but not exactly...<P>I am the BS (wife) who is not plan Aing and my H is the WS who IS plan Aing. However, we're way past initial discovery (almost 2 years post d-day) and I haven't lovebusted for many, many months. I seem to be stuck in the state of withdrawal (which isn't a good place to stay if you're familiar with Dr. Harley's info) and am not quite sure why I can't move forward... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<P>Actually, I wasn't exactly clear on what you wanted to know??? If you're asking if I'm recovered, I would have to say that I'm still working on it. If you're asking if I've forgiven my H for the A, then I would say, "yes". If you're asking if I have in-love feelings for my H, the answer would be "no". However, if you want to know if I love him, then I would say, "yes".<P>I do believe that the WS needs to take ownership for the pain they have caused the BS. Simply saying, "I know I hurt you and I acknowledge your pain and apologize," can be a tremendous help to the BS. I also thinks it stops the BS from continuing to inflict pain on the WS. When the WS gets defensive and starts to excuse their behavior (ie: I didn't mean to hurt you, or I wasn't thinking about you, or you didn't think I was important, etc) instead of taking ownership, the BS goes on the defense as well.<P>Here's a suggestion: When the BS says, "you got layed over at the neighbors...." try replying with something like, "you are right. I was thoughtless and insensitive. I am sorry I hurt you." BOOM-- kinda stops the BS dead in their tracks. You're agreeing, you're acknowledging that you made a mistake. You're taking ownership of what you did.<P>In all honesty, it takes the BS a little more time to "see" their own mistakes...but don't lose heart because this will come. It's a real eye-opener when the BS finally "gets it" and is able to say, "I am partly responsible for driving a wedge between myself and my spouse."<P>I am truly sorry that I hurt my H. I am truly sorry that he sought out another woman to find the attention and care that he so desparately needed. I am truly sorry that my LB behaviors caused him to fall out of love with me.<P>I acknowledge and accept that I made mistakes throughout the 18 year road of our marriage. I HEAR my WS...<P>I'm not perfect. He's not perfect. We both made mistakes. The world is an imperfect place. IT WORKS BOTH WAYS. WE ALL MUST TAKE OWNERSHIP FOR OUR MISTAKES.<P>Peace to you and your H. I wish you all the luck in the world! ~Marie

Thanks OhMy, i'm certain i just need reassurance that my plan a'g will pay off. my question to you is did you talk about MB? LB's, etc? how long did it take for you the BS to learn of MB and your part in this mess? my H wants no counseling. i copied info from MB and put it in his briefcase and don't know if he read it, guess i should ask him. he also doesn't know the extent that i was emotionally involved, guess you call that and EA? he knows it, and knows the OM was in it for the PA, even tho he lied all over the place and told me how much he was "in love" with me.... typical A. i would love to tell my H more details but am so afraid. he doesn't know where we went, how we got there, how often we ate out, etc. etc. so now i'm waiting for hiim to want to keep the marriage, but he doesn't say it or present D papers either. thank you for your encouragement and words from the bible, and yes, i want to know all those things, and at least you are plan A'g, but my H doesn't even know about it. when do i bring him into this same knowledge as i have? i was told to not tell him more than he asks for about the A. he is content to know it happened, more than once, and it seems he's happy with that info for now. <P>I still want to hear from the WS who is plan A'g and the BS who IS NOT, nor is the BS even aware of LB's, how long can you go on. guess it can take years, huh?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My question to you is did you talk about MB? LB's, etc? how long did it take for you the BS to learn of MB and your part in this mess? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I attempted to talk about MB and LBs (and all the wonderful information this site has to offer) with my H. Unfortunately, my H was not receptive to learning why he was vulnerable to an affair.<P>My H is very set in his ways. He doesn't like to be "lectured" or even "hinted" about things he/we "should" be doing to repair our marriage. He is very much one of those "ignore it, and it will go away" personalities <sigh>.<P>It took me approximately 4 months after d-day to find this site. It took me about 6 months after d-day to realize that I had not been as perfect of a wife as I thought I had been. I began plan Aing my H at about the 6 month mark. My plan A efforts lasted about 6 full months. It was hard, grueling work. I felt as though my Plan A efforts were going unrecognized and unappreciated. Furthermore, I found that Plan A made me resent my H more and more. It was at that point that I quit Plan Aing, quit trying to restore the love, quit trying to educate him, and basically decided to just live one day at a time.<P>On my H's side, it took H approximately one year post d-day to do the EN questionnaires with me and about 14-15 months post d-day to read the chapters in the SAA book dealing with RECOVERY.<P>I'm not certain when H finally realized that he needed to PLAN A me. I've often said that it took too long. It's as if he realized it a little too late...perhaps I should have left my marriage temporarily, BEFORE my lovebank had been used up [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I would love to tell my H more details but am so afraid. he doesn't know where we went, how we got there, how often we ate out, etc. etc. so now i'm waiting for hiim to want to keep the marriage, but he doesn't say it or present D papers either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>He'll likely ask eventually, but only when he's ready to face the truth. Perhaps not knowing is the only way he feels he can stay in the marriage at this point in time.<P>I agree with waiting for him to ask for details before "spilling the beans."<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...and at least you are plan A'g, but my H doesn't even know about it. when do i bring him into this same knowledge as i have? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hmmmmm...this is hard. On one hand, if you wait too long you risk draining your own lovebank for him-- and on the otherhand, if you push him into it, you will likely withdrawal from his lovebank for you.<P>How about putting the EN questionnaires on his pillow??? ...along with a note asking him if he'd be willing to let you at least try to meet his needs, while he tries to meet yours???<P>It's a start. Baby steps... Peace, ~Marie

Let me see.....<P>I have the unfortunate experience of being both the WS and BS. So, speaking to you from the WS viewpoint, I am Plan Aing and trying my d*****t not to LB. We've only been married 10 years. Hmmmm.....I had my A in 1998 which lasted about a year. My H's d-day was, I believe around February 99. (Mind you, my H cheated on me our entire M)<P>My H is not Plan Aing, knows all about MB but refuses to get involved. He absolutely hates when I get on the site. I usually get on when he LB's. If I don't, I will LB back so I just get on and start reading and posting. It has helped me get through the past 4 months. How I got by the past 2 years of his stuff, only the Lord knows. I am just thinking He put this site in my path. He did when I needed answers. Through the wonderful people on this site, He has given me answers and strength. <P>I have been able to come to this site and be a part of other's lives. Their lives allow me to live the best life I can for myself....if that makes any sense. Anyways, starting to ramble....<P>Keep up what you are doing. As long as you have that hope, keep it going. I think everyone on here should give their M's the best chance they can. After all avenues of approach have been depleted, then you'll have that complete feeling that you've done all you can to make it work. The rest is up to them. <P>It is hard and patience run thin. I know me, some points I just want my H to love me the way he loved all those other women. I wish sometimes I could love my H the way I loved the OM. You know, be "in love" again. <P>My H finds it so hard to forgive me and let go and unfortunately, I don't think he ever will. I see the resentment building everyday through the way he looks at me sometimes. I know my resentment towards him has tipped the scales as well. Through his actions, he fails to meet my EN's. I can't bring myself to meet his most important EN because of the resentment I've built up. That leaves us where we are today.....just existing...yadda, yadda, yadda.... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]<P>Every situation is different and we all handle them differently. I can look back at all the A's he's had throughout our 11 year relationship, grin about it, then let it go. He looks back and only sees the past 11 years as one thing, I cheated on him. How dare I do such a thing to him?(H's exact words) I regret it everyday I look into my H's beautiful eyes, but nothing I say seems to change that look. Even when I do meet his MI EN's, it just seems to make things worse. He only sees images of me and the OM together--plain and simple. I seem to lose either way.<P>So, I've chosen the only road left to me, and that is to let it go. I have needs that MUST be met as he does. I am tired of crying myself to sleep at night. So, I've put it all in God's Hands. Funny....lately, it seems that my H has maybe taken notice. I let go and he grabs on [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img], I'm liking it [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]. I've just got to pray I can keep doing what I'm doing which is love and respect myself again. At the end of the day, I know that I will be okay no matter which way it goes and that's a good thing. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <BR>Clouds

Thank you all for your comments. I reread Plan A and Plan B, and it says that Plan A is for the BS, so i guess we are done Plan A'g because I am not with the OM, A was broken off in Jan '00, and I haven't spoken to OM since about Mar or Apr? '00. And we live in another country now. But, that's not to say that some days i still have feelings for the OM. I don't know why that is. EA? I will sometimes even dream of him. It was such a fantasy and ended abruptly when OM wife found out. They were our friends. Long long story. Anyway, DDay was 5/01 when I actually told my H. It's a long story and i don't see it posted any longer under Just found OUt, because of the change over in the system, but i think we are In Recovery now. Atleast it feels that way to me. I think we need to have some plan. I have a plan for changing me and hopefully that will in fact affect the people around me. I'll keep being patient and present the Policy of Joint Agreement pretty soon. I have not been LB'g, so that has been a big change. <P>Thank you again so much for this site...