Maybe this is some screwy stage of recovery, but suddenly I can't get past the "why" questions.<P>D-day was 15 months ago although there have been some huge bumps since then. We separated (for a week) as recently as this past July. Things have been going really well since then and now, very unexpectedly, I've fallen off the edge. I'm bitter and mad and I can't for the life of me figure out WHY I thought I could be happy again with this person who hurt me so badly.<P>Anyway, the question is how do you go from happily married, sharing coffee and the paper one morning after great sex the night before with your wife of many years - how do you go from that to naked with someone else?<P>I know many people here were having problems before A, but truly we were very happy. We had the marriage other people tried to pattern theirs after. People told us that we seemed to have a secret language, a world of our own... You get the picture. I KNOW I'm not perfect and I also know that I didn't always meet all his needs and vice versa, but before and after this horrid thing, even WS admits that he was very, very happy. He told our pastor that our good marriage was at its very best just before the A. So... I don't get it.<P>We shared the bathroom that morning, kissed and laughed - just enjoying each other. I was getting dressed for work - he was getting dressed to go to her house. She invited him there and he admits that he knew she had less than innocent motives and that her suggestion that they "share a coke after his bike ride" (YUCK) was flimsy. So on the way there, how do you NOT think of the gravity of what you're doing? As he was leaving after the coke and she invited him upstairs, how do you actually consider it? On the way up the stairs, how do you not reconsider and think "Oh my God, what am I doing?" When getting naked with someone else, how does your wife and family not flash before you?<P>I know there are a lot of people here who are struggling with this same thing (wounded heart, vtbear), and I have read some wonderful and supportive replies. I know I'm being counterproductive, that there will probably never be an answer, that I should just move on - but I'm not there yet. I just want some insight. I would love a WS point of view. Is it really possible that you're just not thinking? Or do you justify? Or simply think noone will ever know? I would love to understand [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

See my recent thread...I need a kick in the...<P>Sexual tension is the worst demon of all...your heart beats faster...your palms get sweaty...you feel giddy...dizzy...just like when you first fell in love...<P>You feel abused, not admired or respected, unloved...your marriage seems filled with more conflict than happiness...<P>The OP is in a similar place...<P>You have 'intimate' conversations with a person of the opposite sex...you tell them things you should be telling your spouse...<P>You take the path of no return by keeping it secret and continuing EVEN WHEN YOU KNOW IT'S WRONG...<P>And, despite many a WS saying "It just happened..." I think they all knew what would happen if they continued...they just didn't care at that moment....<P>Cali

Hello, almostbroken,<BR>I will respond to your question, only because I understand wanting to know the "why" too, but I hope you don't dwell too much on this aspect, and can move on to continuing your recovery.<P>Our M was almost as "perfect" as yours, from the outside (a few more problems from the inside than you are indicating, but still, NOT AWFUL by any means), and to all outside viewers, we were the "perfect couple" and "this could never happen to us."<P>But it did. And although we are not where you currently are in recovery (my WH is still with OW), I do have some thoughts as to how this could have happened.<P>In one sense, it's easier for a man to "fall" into an A (*I* think) cause they can "compartmentalize" things - be doing these things you are saying and NOT think of the ramifications at the time, NOT think of family, kids, etc at that moment. Also, I tend to think it could be an "ego" thing....guys NEED that ego stroked. It's a rush to know someone is going to try to "seduce" you, finds you attractive, sexy, irresistible, etc. In my own H's case, I think MLC played a big part....<P>I hope my thoughts help.<P>God Bless,<BR>Lupo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JustPlainCali:<BR><STRONG>You take the path of no return by keeping it secret and continuing EVEN WHEN YOU KNOW IT'S WRONG...<P>And, despite many a WS saying "It just happened..." I think they all knew what would happen if they continued...they just didn't care at that moment....<P>Cali</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Cali,<BR>I think what you just said is what I need to hear from WS (in lieu of any logical explanation of which, I know, there are none). I don't know why it would make me feel better to hear even this reasoning - I think it would close a door I haven't been able to close so far. Obviously if he said that, it wouldn't make what he did okay, but at least it would be SOME explanation, some honesty. <P>Thanks for the insight. At least maybe now I know what I want...<P>AB<P>p.s. <BR><B>DON'T DO IT!!</B>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lupolady:<BR><STRONG>In one sense, it's easier for a man to "fall" into an A (*I* think) cause they can "compartmentalize" things - be doing these things you are saying and NOT think of the ramifications at the time, NOT think of family, kids, etc at that moment. Also, I tend to think it could be an "ego" thing....guys NEED that ego stroked. It's a rush to know someone is going to try to "seduce" you, finds you attractive, sexy, irresistible, etc. In my own H's case, I think MLC played a big part....<P>I hope my thoughts help.<P>God Bless,<BR>Lupo</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Lupo,<BR>Thanks so much for the insight. I think you're right, although I still don't know exactly how men do that. My H swears that I was meeting all of his ENs, but if he HAD to pick something it would be admiration that he was lacking in. I guess I always thought of us as equals and never knew I needed to "nurture" his ego. <P>Thanks, too, for the encouraging words. I really do want to move past this. <P>I don't know your "story", but I'm so sorry to hear about your situation now. I'm wishing good things for you.<p>[ October 15, 2001: Message edited by: almostbroken ]

Almostbroken,<P>What I have learned from my H’s affairs is that there are many things that contribute to the WS having an affair. It may be the more classic “Ens not being met” or there can be other things. I do believe that one can always point to Ens not being met because it is impossible to always meet another’s person’s Ens always. <P>But I believe very strongly that there are other contributors. In my H’s case we believe it was a mixture of his not having recovered from his x-wife’s affair, other abandonment issues he has had and his ADD. This things seem to have all come together at a particular time of his life making him vulnerable. At that point in his life I don’t even think I could have met all of his Ens because they were bigger then our relationship. These are the things that we believe enabled him to behave inconsistent with his beliefs. <P>He too says that he was happy with our relationship and loved me…. His affair went from about 4/99 to 3/2001. During this period we became engaged and married. So he was happy enough to marry me. Yet he had a PA the weekend after we got married. Like you, I can find no sense. I don’t even try to make sense of it anymore. I simply accept this and his other affairs as a time of his life when he had fallen from grace with himself. <P>And in the middle of all this, I do believe what Cali says. At that time he truly did not care. At that point is was able to compartmentalize things… perhaps feeling that his first and second wives had both cheated on him so it was his time to get all he could before I hurt him too. It seems that when he was not with me our relationship was the farthest thing from his mind.<P>I’ve come to terms with this. We now live our lives by the MB principles and are doing very well. Like Dr. Harley says, we need to know about our own and our spouse’s weaknesses so that we can protect our marriage from them.<P>And maybe what you need to know about you H is that at least once in his life he has not cared enough, once in his life his needs were not being met in some way yet he could not and still cannot articulate it to you, once in his life he was selfish. This is really not that unusual for humans… as much as we all hate to admit it. So the work of your marriage is to protect him and your relationship from his weakness. Dr. Harley says that we should never blindly trust our spouse because human (men and women) are wired to cheat. We are wired for multiple partners. Instead we can affair proof our marriages as much as possible.<P>I know that now that my H and I are living by MB principles, if he were to cheat again our marriage is over. Do you know that Dr. Harley says that if his wife ever cheats on him he will divorce her? The reason is that if a person is truly living my the MB principles, and they cannot be radically honest with their spouse and they cheat, then there is no hope for the marriage. <P>Don’t know if this helps for serves to further confuse. I do not know that in life we often do not get clear answers. Instead we strive to come to a place spiritually/emotionally/intellectually where we can go on in peace. That is where I am with my marriage. And I am very happy with that because our relationship has grown so much through this struggle.<P><BR>Z

almostbroken-funny, i read your post and I would swear it was me that typed it [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<P>I am over 28 months in to recovery. Yet I still ask the same questions. However, the answer I am getting is that there is NO answer.<P>My big thing has been WHY for over 28 long months now. But I realize that after all this time I am just never going to get the answer I feel must be out there.<P>H and I never fight, OW was my friend. I thought my world was more than complete. After one failed marriage I had an absolute "perfect" H. And then in an instant he shattered my world.<P>WHY? I really do not know. He said he thought I didn't love him any more. Well, we are talking about Mr. workaholic here. We both were going nuts trying to get all the work we could-both of us had two jobs although H's had a full time and a part time and I was just part time with both-so that we could buy our own house. So sure we werre wrapped up in different worlds-coming and going on different time schedules. But nothing, I mean NOTHING justified an A.<P>While an answer would be nice I know that H loves me and is remorseful and sorry for ever even thinking about infidelity. I have to learn to be content with this and move on.<P>I hope you get the answer you need-but if not I hope you can move ahead soon too. Best of luck always.

Almostbroken,<P>As a former WS, I can tell you that there are as many answers to this one as there are ways to ask the question, and none of them make sense to the BS. In fact, when we state them, they may not even make sense to us. I know for me, it was more than compartmentalizing things...it was mentally blocking them out. Almost, as if, I was able to live a different life, be a different person. I did feel guilt after, but I will say that Lupo and Cali are right on the money...someone finds you sexy, attractive, says all the right things, seduces you, and you fall right into it like a kid in a ToysRUs with a free shopping spree ticket in their hand. You get lost in this admiration thing, and it all suddenly becomes about YOU. I am not justifying and I can tell you that I felt horrible afterwards, but during, you block it out because it would not allow you to enjoy the moment, and that is what is it is...for the moment. Most OP, are very adept at playing on the WS emotions, and usually know the WS well enough to know the EXACT buttons to push in order to keep them interested, occupied, and they know the weaknesses to play on from all the conversations. It is hard to stay focused. I also believe that somewhere in their heads the WS believes with all their heart that they are strong enough to get right up to a certain point and stop it before anything goes to far, but unfortunately, all WS think that moment is further down the road than it actually is. <P>I know that some BS are reading and saying BULLSH**, they know what is going on all the time! But the truth of the matter is, they lost control long before it got to that point and are following a road fraught with deception of themselves. Most WS hate talking about the whys and how could it happen, because, quite honestly, they themselves dont understand how it got to that point. It is embarrassing and painful to realize how weak we truly are/were.<P>I hope some of this helps you to understand what may happen in the minds of the WS as they follow this ugly path.<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

Thanks so much for your replies. It's been so helpful. <P>"And maybe what you need to know about you H is that at least once in his life he has not cared enough, once in his life his needs were not being met in some way yet he could not and still cannot articulate it to you, once in his life he was selfish. This is really not that unusual for humans? as much as we all hate to admit it. So the work of your marriage is to protect him and your relationship from his weakness. Dr. Harley says that we should never blindly trust our spouse because human (men and women) are wired to cheat. We are wired for multiple partners. Instead we can affair proof our marriages as much as possible."<P>Zorweb - thanks for your response. I know what you said seems to be almost common sense to most people in recovery, but I had a lightbulb moment when I read it. <P>In hindsight, I think I underestimated how important my H's need for admiration was. He did not list this as an EN of his that was not being met, but he should have. Who would've thought that something that easy would end up being the hole in our relationship that allowed this to happen? The sad part, too, is that I <B>do</B> admire him. He's very attractive, funny, affectionate, supportive, easygoing and he's the best father I know of. I just always lovingly thought those things instead of saying them I guess.<P>I hope I can get to that place of peace where obviously you're at. How long ago was Dday for you? <P>Heartache - thanks for your input. Like you, my H does love me and he is truly sorry, and my logical mind knows this is going to <B>have</B> to be enough if we're going to make it through this. It's just soooo big though - I know you know what I mean. When I was a teenager, my parents had a bitter, ugly separation as a result of my father's A - they eventually worked it out and have a great relationship today, but it took a huge emotional toll on all of us. My H knew how strongly I felt about fidelity. And it hurts so bad. It just makes this one thing on the "bad" side of his list sooooo big.<P>trueheart - Another WS told me "all I can tell you is you turn yourself off and the other you takes over." I think this is sorta what you're saying you did, too. After MUCH thinking, although I have never had an A, there have been times in my life where I was able to "turn myself off and let the other me take over." So I guess I can understand somewhat how that could happen. But it does seem like the [B]hugeness[B/] of what you're about to do would snap you back to your senses. Okay, I'm digressing... I also think what you said "somewhere in their heads the WS believes with all their heart that they are strong enough to get right up to a certain point and stop it before anything goes to far." is probably true a lot of the time. I have always wondered if that were true or if from the very beginning, most WSs evilishly predict the outcome. I'm glad to think that they don't. I can sooo see my H using that rationale - it just fits his personality. Thanks for replying. I know it must be hard sometimes to be a part of this forum as a WS, but I have learned so much from yours and other WS's posts.<P>The good news is that as a result of this post (and possibly some Wellbutrin), I'm feeling much better. Everyone's input has been so enlightening. We've had a great couple of nights together, and for the first time in weeks, I could look at him and feel love instead of resentment. I know all those "cliffs" are just right under the surface, but at least they're under for now. I haven't posted a whole lot in the past, but wow! - it really works.