I am 99% certain that my S is having and has been having an affair for possibly three years. What did some of you do to get your WS's to confess? I can't seem to get any admission that anything was going on although I have seen and continue to see a multitude of red flags. I believe it is someone at work, and it's quite simple to use the voice mail system, etc., to make plans. Any suggestions?

Several places to start. Cell phone bills, Emails, Credit card receipts, Expense reports, items carried in trunk, purse or briefcase. I would recommend that you start to keep a daily journal of the WS suspicious activities. This will help you analyze your data when looking at bills and such a month down the road. <P>My W was the WS with a co-worker and refused to admit it for 6 months. She even continued to deny her A after I confronted her with some hard evidence. <P>Tell me/us more about why you feel that you spouse is cheating. When & how do you think they get together?

Dear Sad1,<P>The best piece of advice I ever ran across to get someone to admit to an A was to feign evidence.<P>They way I did it was to talk to someone who I knew would know the truth, she did but wouldn`t come right out and tell me.<P>I had left home and went to my sister`s house for a few days and talked to my H via ICQ. I told him that I had talked to this third party and she told me some things. Then I quit typing, shut my mouth so to speak. Since he couldn`t see my face he couldn`t tell if I was bluffing or not. A phone call could be used this way as well.<P>It took him about two long minutes to answer my pointed question as to whether he had cheated or not. He thought I had the goods and so he cracked.<P> In my situation it was impossible to get proof, but sometimes you don`t need the hard evidence, your WS only has to think that you do.

There are only two ways to "get" a WS to confess...<BR>1) having concrete evidence such as mentioned above..cell phone bills, emails, etc., or catching/seeing them together.<P>2) Continually talking about it, letting them know what you suspect, how hurt you are, what you are feeling...and they have such a strong feeling of guilt that they can no longer handle it and spill their guts.<P>Otherwise, there are no other reasons for the WS to confess! You cannot "get" them to do anything unless they want to or you catch them. They dont want to get caught, nor hurt you directly, so they won't offer up the information willingly, unless they are so overcome with guilt that they feel they have no options.<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

When I found out about my H's EA and told him I knew, I really didn't CARE if he admitted it or not. I knew it was true, he knew it was true so I just didn't give a damn. His admission was not necessary - I knew the truth without it. He tried to deny it and I just laughed so he dropped the excuses. [he did admit it 2 days later when he begged me to stay] <P>It is necessary that they admit it if you want to salvage the relationship but if they don't, it's pretty hard to even think about recovery. I just don't think it's possible to force someone to admit something and if you're with the kind of person who is so patently dishonest that you have to produce movies and bloodtests to get them to admit what they know is true, I would have second thoughts about staying with such a person.

P.S. To this day, my H has no idea WHAT my evidence was or how I got it because I refuse to even consider showing my evidence. [can't afford to destroy my sources!] It is none of his damn business.

Dear Trueheart,<P>My H didn`t want to confess nor would he ever if I hadn`t done this. He kept his lies covering a onenight stand going for three years and I had tried every scenario imaginabe to get him to confess. I had to swallow my pride and be as sneaky as he was to get the truth.

I wish I was back where you are now. I would do many things differently. My advice would be to take a really deep breath and go slowly. Very slowly, especially when it comes to "tipping your hand", so to speak. Gather as much evidence as you possibly can, because as soon as your WS suspects you know, things get much harder to find- they have amazing ways of hiding and lying and denying. Patience, patience, patience. Cover all your bases before you confront!<P>In the meantime, read here often, and when it gets to be too much, dump here, not on your spouse or others. You are in a precarious position and prone to doing things you could later regret.<P>My prayers are with you- make an extra effort to take care of YOU right now.

In the end, sometimes, getting them to confess can be more difficult than recovering from the effects of it. BS are often in your position Daisy, of becoming super snoops in order to get at the truth. I know, for me, I the most difficult part, as the WS, was revealing the truth, and seeing the pain, frustration, and anger on her face. That hurt me more than you can possibly imagine. <P>There are some, that getting the answer and getting the WS to admit it, becomes the focal point of everything. I have known, in real life, BS that knew they were or werent going to leave the WS, but wanted that answer to come out of their mouths more than anything else in the world.<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

A LOT of time we already have the evidence but we are unwilling to admit it and continue to search for more. As if we won't really internalize it until we SEE them having sex. <P>Evidence could just be a female friend that he spends too much time with and refuses to quit seeing and according to him you are psycho to ask him to give up a good friend. Tell us more of your story and we can validate the obvious evidence you have but are too blind to see. It is just like President Clinton really believed in his heart he did not have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky but he did Finally confess he had an inappropriate relationship with her. What is that??!!!!

Dear Trueheart,<P>My H has said much the same thing. He says he wanted to tell me so many times but just couldn`t because he was horrified at what he did, he loved me and didn`t want to crush me.<P>I asked him why if he knew that I was 99% certain of what he did, why did he let me suffer for so long. It`s not like we discussed this everyday but it came up regularily. I did cry, I did beg. I moved to the couch. I eventually went to websites on infidelity to try and figure out ways to get the truth. <P>This is what I don`t understand from WS`s. They tell us they feel guilty about their A`s and don`t want to hurt us and yet they continue to hurt us by lying. I can understand if the BS has no clue about the A but if the WS knows that the BS has strong suspicions and they are really feeling guilty why not end the suffering? Because my H kept his A hidden for so long and only confessed when he had no other choice , I have a very hard time believing that he did feel bad about it. He never would have told me, he would have let me suffer indefinitely. <P>Wouldn`t it make perfect sense for a WS who has made a mistake and WANTS to stay married to come clean when their spouse is suspicious instead of compounding the problem? An if they don`t want to stay married, they want to take off with the OP then there really is no reason to keep it quiet.

sad1,<P>This is a super good question. And although it is extremely tragic (dealing with the A, EA/PA, or whatever you find), it is a deep, deep hurt, later with alot of rage, denial, shock, hate, disbelief, horror, get the picture - drawing it out can also be "funny" sorry to say that word, and very, very maddening.<P>Listen to Rapunzel - great advice to go slow. You have a feeling, some clues, no exact proof, but you must act as normal as possible. If you suspect, it becomes an addicition to the WS, if they always came home Friday nights, and start giving a lame excuse - you could go to their work, and watch them leave. They leave little clues behind when they don't know you know.<P>I wish I could give you the old thread I wrote back in April/May disclosing my horror - here it is in a nutshell.<P>We had a 5 yr family friend, she decided to go in and go after my H, who was vulnerable. His EN, my EN were not being met. The friendliness got more frequent, I knew she was sending e-mails & he was responding. He was doing a pretty darn good acting job - I didn't suspect a thing - until she & her daughter (teenage) came to visit for a weekend because they were on a business trip so to speak & needed a place to stay that was close to their business trip. To make this part easy, I saw right through it, and he was rude to me. We had a big fight while they were in our house. On Monday, he escorted them (they followed his car) to their business. He was suppose to call me when he got to work. I started to get nervous & upset when he didn't call by noon and 1 pm. So I tracked her cell phone # down through her mother, called her at 3 pm and he was still with her. I didn't care about talking to her, I only cared about talking to him, I asked him what was going on - he denied. Came home at 7 pm, when we finally talked he wouldn't admit it - but I knew it.<P>He was talking on AOL IM to her, and staying up late, and coming to bed very late. God woke me up a couple of days after the Monday incident, I snuck into our computer room, peeked right into the screen - and yep, there it was - I just wish I'd gotten him up, and started typing to the bit**. Those incidents started an 18 month hell for me. She even called him after we moved, tracked down his new office number. God put me outside his office - and I took care of her then too.<P>And - you want to know something - if I ever catch her talking to him again - I'll "**** her". It is only figurative. I hate her guts, her family, her her her. Yes, if she is ever, ever around him for an "event" - which I can't go into how/where/who, etc. with her - she will definately get a piece of my mind.<P>On detective work later, I found long distance calls, flower he'd sent, I found cards, and postage (which is still a trigger), he recorded her birthday & kids birthdays in his daytimer. Just sorry I never found the letters she sent him. <BR>Excuse me - bit**, bit**, bit**<P>She is out of our life. And if I ever see her around my H again (she lives on one coast & we live on another), she will deal with me. Because she won't ever talk to him again. <P>Moral of the story - watch out for family friends.<P>Go slow, check phone bills, if you can get to his wallet, daytimer, briefcase, into his car, glovebox, etc. Watch bank withdrawals, cash withdrawals, is he withdrawing more cash. Good advice, keep a log about how much time he spends away from the house, and analyze it from what he did before. Cell phone bill, calling card - new calling card. Get the number, and check the minutes. Show up at his work unannounced around lunch, and see if he squirms. Is he getting upset with you more, or for no reason. Is there new music, or radio station he is listening to.<P>Go research the "27 items to tell you they are having an A". Is he being secretive, does he get mad at you when you ask him a question, is he staying late at work all of a sudden. Show up late in the afternoon, just before quitting time.<P>If you have a feeling - it is probably happening. aftershock

Sad1,<P>I was in this situation for 4 years. I suspected my W had an A and she knew I knew, but wouldn't tell me the truth. I too felt I was 99% sure she had, there was just too much evidence to not believe, but without hearing it from them there is that doubt. I think a BS with this suspicion doesn't want to believe what they already know, I know that was my case. I thought I knew and thought I had excepted the truth long before d-day, but I hadn't. I was devastated when she admitted to the A, like it was a total shock, even though I had known for four years, I was not prepared to hear it come from her mouth. I was not ready for conformation. I always say suspicion was hard to deal with, but conformation was 10 times worse.<P>I had to do some snooping to get the truth from my W. I tapped my phone line and staged an argument about the A (later I learned it was 4 As), and W talked to friend on the phone about it. Funny thing is, I didn't have to play the tape for her to get her to admit it. I was so messed up I called her at work and told her she needed to come home right away (which got her very concerned), and I didn't tell her why she needed to come home but just told her it had to do with our life together. She was obviously very concerned and told me later she knew I knew. When she got home I asked her if she had an A....She said yes. So that whole time I could have bluffed her into telling the truth, but I am not good enough at acting.<P>If you believe your H is still involved in an A you could hire a privat investigater. They are a little expensive, but I'm sure for a couple hondred dollars a PI could get you that hard evidence. <P>You could also do like I did and tap your phone...This is illegal to do in most areas. In my state you must have concent from at least one party that is being recorded. This is a hard law to convict on though...hard to prove...and if your H tells the police he gave you permission to record the phone then it is very hard for the police to persue. You can buy a phone recording device at Radio Shack for like $50, and its easy to install.

Wow!! Thank you everyone for your posts!! I did consider hiring a PI, it's been 4 months since I confronted WS about my suspicions and presented some evidence. Since I believe the OP is someone at work, it is very easy for them to continue without my knowledge. I believe this OP also lives in an adjacent state, so contact has been and continues to be mainly by phone. A calling card, or voice mail is used, so no bills. Unfortunately, I've divulged too much of what I suspect, and the trails have gotten less flagrant. Now they use change and a pay phone.<P>Thanks for your support. I need to consider some things. Evidence was carrying condums, etc.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sad1:<BR><STRONG> What did some of you do to get your WS's to confess? </STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>It's not always easy to get someone to confess, even when confronted with direct evidence. Some cheaters will cling to any excuse, no matter how flimsy. The most favorite is "We are just friends." My H used that one himself. Many WS will try to make the BS think he or she is crazy & paranoid. I was told I had an "overactive imagination". I think he would have withstood torture before he confessed and probably would have preferred to take it to his grave. The only way I found out for sure was when he dumped the OW and she called and told on him. She was hoping that by telling I wouldn't take him back. He was pretty much trapped then and finally quit denying it. From the info she gave me and the suspicions and evidence I already had his goose was cooked.<p>[ October 20, 2001: Message edited by: fairydust ]

My W is a jewel. She confessed almost immediately.

-AD

<small>[ June 30, 2002, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

[You should work on the issues rather than chasing stuff that will drive you crazy. You can not make someone do something that they do not want. If you have the info on your hand right now, do you think your WS will beg for forgiveness ect,ect,ect ?. Concentrate on MB. You gather info hard evidence only for you to make the A open.

Sad1,<P>My denied his A when I questioned him also. The OW was also a co-worker and I tried to convince myself that he wasn't really sleeping with her because of certain events. (He was a paul bearrer and read a lettter at her daughter's funeral, she came to my in-law's for Christmas dinner, she babysat our children on many occasions, etc.) But I knew things were not right in our marriage and that is what I focused on. While we were away at a Retrouvaille weekend he admitted to having feelings for her, and I later discovered that it was a PA. I think he had just gotten tired of living 2 lives. And although at that time he wasn't sure what he wanted to do, he was sure he couldn't continue living like that.<P>Maybe that's how you should approach this. Just assume that he has had an affair and try to win him back. Meet all of his needs, be the loving wife he can't life without, meet him for lunch if you can, send him loving emails or letters, and when you go to bed at night show him how much you love him and want him. <P>My H was not living with me when I came across the evidence that his A was a PA. This is what I did: Invited him over for a nice dinner with me and the kids, we put the kids to bed and then we went to bed together and enjoyed SF, then in the morning I made a copy of the evidence and attached a note that said "I know you were intimate with her...I still love you and want to get through this..." I think he was shocked that I could do all that even after knowing the truth.<P>Good luck!

Sad1,<P> If you and your husband do not use condoms then that's all the evidence you need to know. As others have said here, no real reason to dig any deeper. But if you do it is understandable, most of us here have in an effort to find solid ground to make some decisions from. <P>Did he tell you why he was carrying condoms? <P>A PI can be quite expensive if you don&#8217;t have some leads to narrow their search and cut down investigative time. I have a few questions/ideas if you wish to continue. <P>Do you keep your old phone bills? If so, look at out of state calls prior to your confrontation. Look at the time of day and duration. Think about when you are not around the home phone as you look. Look at the area codes to see what cities to calls made to. Any suspect numbers can be called from a local pay phone to determine the identity. <P>Do you think this OP travels to see him or he travels to see her?<P>Do you have you old credit card bills from prior to your confrontation? Do you see any charges that seem out of the ordinary? Out of state? Non-retail charges like Internet member fees? Restaurants?<P>Does your husband ever work late/early? Is there a pattern you can track? Does he drive to work? Check the average drive to work mileage on the odometer periodically for a few weeks. Once you have determined average, you have a basis to compare against those late/early trips to work. Also look at your bank statements for ATM withdrawals for those early/late work nights.<P>Does he ever travel for business? If so, does he go to the same city and hotel? Does he file expense reports for anything? <P>Do you have an Internet Computer in the house? Does your husband use a computer?<P>I had to go through a similar process to determine what exactly was going on with my wife a while back and can help you go into more depth, if you care to. The real best way to start is by keeping a journal, it really helps to put the pieces together and identify patterns.<P>One last question, what does your Husband do and what kind of business does he work in?<P><BR>Hope it&#8217;s no too much, just wanted see if I could help you find a few more pieces to the puzzle.<P>HI

Thank you to all of you for your helpful insight. I don't want to give too many details as not sure S doesn't read the board.<p>I've experienced many of the things you point out as flags. Four years ago, even heard S whispering to a friend in our home how S had a new friend at work. When I confronted, I was told S was only kidding. We were in the process of buying a much bigger, more expensive home at the time, and I was surprised S would consider doing that if it was serious. Took the "just kidding" comment as truth as I hadn't seen any other real evidence. S has shown pictures of house to OP and told me about it.<p>During this period of time, the signs have been everywhere. On a daily basis I can think back and have some new piece fall into place... memories that I repressed or didn't make sense at the time suddenly click.<p>Hang up calls stopped once I confronted S five months ago. Other strange behaviors have not, and we have been in counseling, but without much success. I think A needs to be over before counseling helps, and I don't think it's over. <p>Trueheart, both of your items are very good, and I've tried them but without success. <p>They appear to use calling cards, and I narrowed down the individual through that information. Now use pay phones and change. Also, dial in directly to work voicemail and leave messages for each other. Yes, they drive to meet each other on occasion. Figure they also take days or partial days off to be with each other. We carpool some days, and S is very concerned with when I want to leave work on these days; also is frequently late picking me up once a time is decided upon. Majority of the time S keeps the car, so I am basically stranded. Commute is lengthy and we work very near each other; doesn't make sense to take two vehicles.<p>Tired of being detective, and S keeps threatening about my continual "digging".<p>Rapunzel, I really wish I had your advice at the beginning...everything is more covert since I tipped part of my hand.<p>Thanks everyone...I don't feel there's much sense to working on something if I'm the only one working on it. My counselor says S has problems that will not be overcome by Plan A'ing. Says that I need to make a conscious decision based upon information counselor can give me about any prognosis for the future. I still have tried to adhere to the concepts here because they will hopefully make me a good S in the future should I ever decide to go that route again. I'm only in my thirties so I guess it's a possibility, but maybe not.<p>I did things wrong also, and I realize that I did and what they were. So at least I've learned from this lesson.<p>You guys are great....my vent board that keeps me sane. Thanks again!