My H last made contact with OW on 9/11/01. They had a (crying, hugging, kissing & I'll love you forever) goodbye session before we moved to another state. He reassures me that there has been no contact. The problem is that I'm not sure he's home for the right reasons. He is home purely out of obligation. It seems like he isn't even trying to get over the OW, almost like he doesn't want to. I have been plan A-ing and there has been no major LB's sense the day I found out he saw her again on 9/11. I have talked to him about MB and we are reading SAA together. He admits that he is doing all of this only for me. We filled out the EN questionnaire and he is meeting some of my needs, but again he says they are not coming from his heart and he&#8217;s only doing it for me. Prior to 9/11 we were back together for almost 3 months, but he continued to work with the OW.<P>So my questions are:<P>1) Should I keep encouraging him to fill my EN if he really doesn&#8217;t mean it?<BR>2) Do we even have a chance if he doesn&#8217;t even try to give up thoughts of the OW?<BR>3) Is him being here because he feels obligated good enough?<BR>4) Am I just fooling myself or is he just deep in the fog? <BR>5) When will it lift?<P>I have posted a few times, but feel like I&#8217;m sinking! He told me that he is basically waiting for me to tell him to leave. At this point he doesn&#8217;t really want to be here and would love to leave, but doesn&#8217;t want it to be his decision. He says that he is miserable and that the return of &#8220;in love&#8221; feelings seem impossible. Funny thing is that even though he never tells me &#8220;I love you&#8221; first, when I say it he always returns the words. I haven&#8217;t asked him why yet, but I&#8217;m sure he&#8217;d give the same answer, &#8220;I&#8217;m doing it for you.&#8221;<P>I&#8217;m sure this is everyone&#8217;s story. If you have advise to give, I want to hear it! I would just like to have some hope and it&#8217;s dwindling! I love him so much and want this to work. I want him to want it as bad as me and he definitely doesn&#8217;t! He has even said that he doesn&#8217;t feel guilty or remorseful even though he knows he should! This is not his character and I hate seeing him like this!<P>Thanks<BR>Le

moving forward,<BR>Please don't give up. I am a FWS and know that it takes quite a bit of time to move past the deep feelings for the OP. It is like going thru the grieving process. Even if now he says he's just doing it for you out of some obligation, at least he is still there and doing something.<P>Keep plan Aing him. Just love him thru this and he will get those loving feelings back for you. He must still have them or he would make the decision for himself to leave.<BR>I was the same way. I just went along with whatever in order not to make any decision.<BR>I figured that eventually my H would have enough and throw me out. Then i could go back to the OM with a clear concious because I was "thrown out" Well, that didn't happen.<BR>My H told me if I was going to leave I had to make that decision, otherwise, we would just continue as we were. <P>I was one mopey lady after I finally sent the no contact letter to the OP. And I just knew that I had made a mistake, but you know that my H never stopped loving me or treating me in a loving manner. He did his best to meet all my needs and let me know how thankful he was that I chose to stay home even when I didn't want to. <P>And now 7 months later, I find that I love my H very much. OH, things aren't all rosey.<BR>I still have feelings for the OM and wonder what has happened to him. But I have never contacted him again and he has never tried to contact me. I know that as time goes back the feelings of love I have for the OM will fade away. And my love for my H grows stronger. When my H realizes that he is not meeting my needs, he aplogizes to me and works harder at meeting those needs.<P>I will tell you that it is not easy for me.<BR>While you live with memories of your H with another woman, the WS lives with the memories of that OP. Those memories are very hard to deal with from both sides. So you must do your best to make new memories with your H. Memories that will play thru his mind. memories of love and understanding.<BR>of someone who stood by him no matter what.<P>And give yourself and him time. This is too fresh right now in his mind. He is playing thru his head what could have been and those memories are not reality based. they are fantasies and can be as wonderful as he ever imagined a relationship being. Don't compete with those. You can't. You are reality. Be that real loving woman you know you are. Just love him. Treat him with respect and kindness. Those are the things that he will remember and bring him back to reality of what life is.<BR>God bless you.<BR>Debbie

Debbie,<P>Thank you so much for your reply! It brought me to tears and gives me hope! It is so nice to get a well thought out and thorough reply! I know I need to be patient, I just get to feeling down and wonder how long is it going to take! Of course, my H thinks his A was different and that it was really love and they would have had a storybook life together. As we read SAA together, he says that he understands the concepts and that sure the situations are strikingly similar, but he says that he is different and doesn&#8217;t fall into the stereotypical WS arena. This is hard to hear, but I have asked him to be upfront and honest with his thoughts and feelings so I have to take the bad too! I wish there was some good to go along with it! He may be meeting my EN falsely, but at least he admits to it. I just don&#8217;t know if him doing that is good or bad.<P>Questions for you: How long did it take before you were able to express sincere affection and word of endearment? Did it happen a little at a time or overnight? Was it an LB when BS showed affection? Did you ever break down and express true remorse, or am I expecting too much?<P>Thanks again!<BR>Le

moving forward,<BR>I spoke the words of affection and endearment long before I felt them. I just went thru the motions at first. And too thought like your husband. I thought the SAA was a nice book, but that I was somehow different and special and it didn't really apply to me. I knew in my heart that my OM and I were deeply in love and would always be that way. In fact, whenever I talked to the OM about really trying to see if my marriage could work out, he would tell me that he would never give me up without some kind of fight. And you know, when I sent him that no contact letter, right out of the blue, he never made any attempt for one last meeting. We too had a rosy relationship with no fighting until I just couldn't take the pressure of being pulled apart by two men. And knowing that my walk with God was not where it had been or where it could be as long as I was doing the wrong thing.<P>I can honestly say now that when I tell my H that I love him, I do. It doesn't mean that thoughts of the OM aren't still there, but they are getting less. And I find that I love my H more than I thought I could again.<BR>I am amazed at the strength of character he showed in not pushing me or forcing me to make a decision. He also showed a lot of restraint in showing affection towards me when I first made the decision to work on our marriage. He could sense when I didn't want him to touch me or get too close and so he allowed me my space without letting on how much it hurt him. <BR>And he always asked about my feelings. He accepted whatever I told him and didn't try to make me feel like I should be feeling that way. he just told me he wished he could make it all go away and that I was feeling better. He also sent me cards that told me he cared. These helped me the most.<BR>He was able to express himself without being physically present to overwhelm me. I could read the cards at my leisure and go back over them as I wanted.<P>It is only recently that I have expressed any remorse. When things are so bad, a person doesn't always think clearly and ends up making some very bad decisions, such as my A. But at the time for me it was a lifeline that I was grabbing onto. Now I realize that the long term consequences are just not worth the little bit of joy that A brought me. I should have found another way to reach my H and let him know that he wasn't meeting my needs.<BR>Well, I feel once again I am rambling on.<P>My best to you. Please write and ask any questions you may have. I will do my best to answer them from my perspective. Be patient and loving. I think as long as he is with you there is hope.<P>Debbie

Debbie,<P>Another question, I tend to cling to my H even though he says he's unconfortable with affection. I guess I just crave it so much right now! Any way, I have been afraid to step back and give him the breathing room he asks for. Partly because of selfishness and partly because I don't want him to forget about me! In your situation, if your H would have pushed his affection on you would it have made things harder? I'm afraid to stop, but also want to do everything right!<P>Thanks,<BR>Le

Call Steve, he or Jennifer can help you make a plan.<P>If your WS has really cut the contact, & frankly 6 wks is not very long, he is going through withdrawal not fun for the BS but it is part of the process.<P>Recovery is a long trip but it is worth price.

moving_forward & dlm,<P>This thread really hit home with me, especially the part about the WS believing that their particular situation is unique. I actually got my WS to read SAA, and she had basically the same reaction. She even posted here once (using the name Scout):<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/004300.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/004300.html</A> <P>Reading it again, I want to throw up. She can talk about it all like it's really no big deal, just one of those things. Well, now she's signing a long term lease and moving out. It's just something she "has" to do. I've made it clear over and over that I am willing to do the work and meet her ENs, etc. Her opinion is that it's too little too late. "Oh well, our 14 year marriage didn't work out because I didn't feel loved so I cheated and don't want to try and work things out, too bad. I'm sure the kids will get over it. I just want to be happy."<P>Sorry to vent in the middle of your thread.<P>Just know that you're not alone. My hope is fading that my wife is in a fog as opposed to just having become a different person. I've found that what helps me the most is just to let go and find ways to make myself and my kids happy. Trying to change the way she feels about me is worse than useless and always makes me feel horrible. I do still let her know that I care about her/love her/miss her. She's not at a point where she really appreciates it though.<P>I'm just hanging in there as long as my love and patience will allow. Take care of yourself, and don't give up.<P>NP

Moving Forward,<P>In June of this year my W told me she didn't love me. She told me I was pathetic and despicable and that I couldn't compete with her OM. Last week she said the words 'I love you' out of the blue. She said that she's feeling closer to me and that she feels a lot more positive about us. It can work MF. And you can make it work for you.<P>You have every opportunity right now. Your H is with you and that's all that counts. It doesn't matter that he says he doesn't love you today, it doesn't matter if he says that he's doing it because he feels obliged. It doesn't matter because he's in his fog and he needs time to come out of it.<P>You need to be Plan Aing but be careful. During my Plan A, my W said that I'd shocked her. Apparently I was a bit over the top and a bit too needy. That put her off and made her doubt my sincerity. The difficulty for you is that you're feeling insecure and you need him to help you.<P>The trick is to stay as calm as you can and be as focused as you can. Don't crowd him with too much affection and too much of your own insecurities.<P>Spend as much time with your H as you can. Talk, listen, be his recreational partner whatever it takes, whatever his needs are. Over time he'll start feeling closer to you and his feelings will change. If he loved you, he can love you again.<P>good luck,<P>- Freddy

Freddie,<P>Thank you! Today was a good day and I feel we took a couple of steps forward. I know the fog isn't gone and could roll back in even thicker at any time, so I'm not getting too hopeful. He said there still hasn't been contact (since 9/11/01) and that he realizes that if his feeling for the OP are going to die, that he can't contact her. Hopefully, he follows his own advice!<P>Thanks again,<BR>Le