Hi all,<BR>I was listening to a tape today and the speaker was discussing why marriages get stale and open up for affairs. His whole premise was that people get lost...they get lost in the labels of "Father, Husband, Employee, BoyScout Leader" or "Mom, Wife, Employee" ect, ect...you get the picture. Anyway, this inner voice sort of cries out to be recognized, "who am I, where am I going, what have I done with my life, who is this person I married "? <P>While I didn't have an A, I definately recognized the feelings behind this thinking, as I was in that rut myself. Just sort of stuck in the daily rut and slugging through life. Wasn't really questioning who I was necessarily, just trying to keep my head above water.<P>Anyway, the speaker went on to say that A's happen when someone (OW/OM) or something creates enough of a spark to make the WS believe this could be the direction to go to rediscovering the "true self" that's been hidden beneath all the labels. This spark could be a sympathetic ear, or something that validates the WS. He also went on to say that persuing the relationship past the friend stage and into the intimate stage, while it feels like the right direction, unfortunately is almost always like a mirage...a mini-vacation...and reality is still there, right around the corner...that the only way to get through all of this is soul searching and discovering who you really are and what kind of a person you want to be. <P>I found this an interesting perspective and wondered if anyone else would like to get in on this. Wish SO was home so I could get his viewpoint.<BR>T

well twyla, that is exactly what I am doing, makes me feel like I am on track. Doesn't mean I am right, but I am definitely trying to figure out who I am, and what I want.

First point is "not in love", common theme<P>If you feel that way about your M ... something wrong. Satisfied EN should give you something to look forward, not a routine.<P>Look at MB on how A begins ... and how A dies

Yep...<P>Plus in the case of my H I think it also validated the thought in the back of his mind that he shouldn't have married in the first place...<P>His ability to have an A...proved it...he wasn't cut out for marriage...all he can remember now is the fights...<P>Cali

SnL- Funny, after I thought about this concept most of the day, your name popped in to my head. While I remember being vaguely dissatisfied with life, (too much work, can't catch up, not really anticipating much of anything..just sort of floating along) I guess I assumed I knew who I was...I realize I was defining myself by what everone else saw in me (Mom, hard working employee, SO, ect.) It wasn't until the A that I got shook up enough to take stock of myelf and my life. I often wonder what else could have had such a profound effect and woken me up.<P>Redhat...Hmmmmm "not in love"...that phrase always gets to me now that I've heard the "I love you but I'm not in love with you". The funny thing is that I identified with that phrase when he told me of his A. While I still loved him, to be honest, the thrill of being "in love" was gone. As for satisfied emotional needs? Again, to be honest, at that point in my life, if someone had asked me about my needs, I would have listed a maid, chauffer, probation officer, and a good night's sleep as my main needs. It wasn't until MB that I even really became aware of the concept of emotional needs.<P>Cali, I don't think an A proves he's not cut out for marriage..but may be an indication that he might not understand the concept of a committed relationship. Hmmmm, this one I have to think about some more...I can't quite get my thoughts out the way I want.<P>To me, the more interesting part of the tape was this concept of "losing yourself" in realtionship to growing dissatisfaction in a relationship. And the concept that followed was to understand yourself as an individual in order to be more effective in a partnership.<BR>T

Twyla,<P>I totally agree that 'life get's in the way' and people do get involved with being mom, dad, friend or whatever. The problem comes when this is at the cost of the marriage relationship.<P>I don't agree that an A is about 'finding' ourselves. The A is made possible because in the mind of one of the spouses the marriage has been put in question. This spouse is questioning the validity of the marriage. And this is because the relationship is not working for them and hasn't been for sometime.<P>This spouse is vunerable and when somebody comes along who starts answering their needs an A is going to happen. They become a WS because they think that this new relationship is 'true'. Basically, they've been cheated on by their spouse (the BS) because they didn't marry what they thought they were. They're not getting what they want.<P>- Freddy.

Twyla<BR>Your post seems to echo much of my (our?) current situation. I guess that for some time WS and I had been neglecting each others EN's and that she found another person who connected with her and to her EN's. But...and it's a big but, don't we all have a responsibility to our spouse to at least give our M a chance? In my case it was depression that made W so despondent that she felt she couldn't (just couldn't) face these issues with me. I'm a great pragmatist and the first one to label such despondent feelings as a load of garbage, but the reality is that underneath it all, I can and DO realise that depression is not controllable by the WS and in fact that their actions are perfectly understandable. All of the questions of self that you pose must play incessantly on the mind when theyb are in such a state, and all it takes is either an OP who might be feeling similar, or simply a predatory OP, and 'boom'... the WS sees a helping hand or a kindred soul who will provide the emotional succour that is sooo much craved for. As the BS, it hurts no less when looked at this way, in fact it hurts more to think that the WS feels so hopeless with you that they simply cannot bring themselves to come to you and say..'hey, something's wrong here...let's talk or let's do something about it". Thankfully, I feel that this perspective is helping me. I have Plan A underway, and although it's early days (and I AM a firm believer in the ol' one step forward and two steps back theory) I might be seeing some signs of W blinking through some of the fog. Dunno..keep yer fingers crossed for me. Interestingly enough...all of the letters that I have seen between WS and OM refer to vacations/holidays and jetting off into the sunset. Just like the mini-vacations you refer to...it is almost like a rehearsed script. But when reality struck (me finding out)...whoops, OM ran a mile...dropped her like a hot potato. In some ways I feel sorry for her...in others I feel nothing for the pain she must feel. I guess I feel vindicated in that it seems that the man who declared his eternal love for her (errrr...that's me BTW), has lived up to his vows. Long post, so sorry about that. Take care all.<P>Snerty

Bang on Snert, Bang on.<P><STRONG><BR>they simply cannot bring themselves to come to you and say..'hey, something's wrong here...let's talk or let's do something about it". <BR></STRONG><P>My W did exactly that but I wasn't listening. Now I am. With my ears and more importantly, with my heart.<P>take care,<P>- Freddy

Twyla,<P>WOW, there's been a rash of these posts recently. There's more to your list of labels, right? (I can add about two dozen of my own) <P>The problem with that poor inner voice crying out to be recognized is that it's overwhelmed by the effort to keep your head above water. I don't have the time to answer those questions. PARALYSIS! LIMBO! <P>I think that I've let much life go by without worrying about the whys and wherefores. Now, suddenly, I need to have <B>ALL</B> the answers or I'm going to crash and burn.<P>I really understand the intense desire <B>for time out</B>. It's exactly as you say, when I have those 'vacation from reality' fantasies there <B>are no consequences</B>. I guess there's this feeling that if the 'vacation' helps fix me, then dealing with whatever consequences that come up will be easier than being in my current limbo. This is scary!! Actually, I'm glad that this part scares me.<P>At least my W seems to be hanging on for this roller coaster ride. I think Cali posted something yesterday that implied that's all the spouse is able to do. My W is working very hard to convince me that she doesn't have her own exit plan "just in case". That is helping. A LOT!<P>What I need to figure out is how to "take care of business" while at the same time figure out who I am and where I want to go from here. All of the web sites I've found seem to <B>describe me </B> but don't offer much help on how to <B>fix me</B>. YIKES!<P>Jeffers