Surprise...<P>Went to send my H an e-card and guess what a 'new' e-mail address was 'cookied' at the website.<P>I called H over to explain the address "alllifelong"...it's an account they share to send things to one another...<P>He says it's been over a month since he sent the card...<P>Anyway...I reiterated that it was time for him to leave...I couldn't live this way anymore...I won't share him...I won't be married like this...he has to choose me...not just stay for kids...<P>He says he's not leaving until he has children and I in a house...now with our finances this could be 1-2 years...<P>Can you believe this? I am tired...We just talked for two hours about the whole thing...ended with him getting mad and throwing at me that he had to sin and do this heinous thing to get my attention...<P>I am numb.<P>Cali<p>[ October 23, 2001: Message edited by: JustPlainCali ]

Cali,<P>{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>You need lots of them tonight. I'm so sorry to hear this. Perhaps you should force the issue and just get him to leave. You have the right to some peace of mind. You will not survive 1-2 years of this. It is only his way of saying that he likes it the way it is and therefore will not leave.<P>Z

Thanks Z--<P>I did I told him I couldn't live like this...I needed time to grieve and to be able to start over...<P>I told him I wanted to be married...I wanted a H who loved me and chose me...I deserved it...and I sooo want it to be him...but if not we had to move on...<P>He kept going back to the "I never wanted to be married" bit...like it negated our whole lives...how he's worked so hard for 12 years and how I haven't listened to him...so now he doesn't want to work anymore...he just doesn't want to be married.<P>He talked about how he was screwed either way...if he left he was the scoundrel...if he stayed he was the H who strayed...<P>D****t...I was in such a good place today...I really believed I could hold on and plan A and work on me and my part of the relationship...<P>My love for him isn't nearly drained away...how can that be? <P>Cali

Dear Cali,<P>I always said you were a few steps trailing in your situation. I still believe that. Your H and mine have to come to their own resolution. How long it takes them and where we end up is the undecided factor in our lives. <P>Your H is pulling in the air for something that is not there. He appears angry that he has to bear the brunt of his guilt for any length of time. Cali, you need to let him do this. He said he is tired, mine did also. I agreed so am I. Let's just throw it all away. Live in a box. Lose it all. I told him, he can go his way and I will go mine. I can live in a car. I am not to proud to admit defeat. I began to throw things out, my wedding pictures, my dress, the pictures made it to the garbage can. H left and I rescued them. In reality I was not ready to throw them away yet. My son saw them the next day on the couch and asked about them. It brought back memories and I cried again. I left them on the couch and H saw them. He was angry that he saw them but I did not care. That was back in February. Then he went on that 3 day trip with OW to Yosemite. Hm...... <P>Cali, I had to let go and it hurt so much. It was not my choice at that time. Later when I asked H to leave it was my choice and I felt stronger for it. But I made that decision when my health started failing. You should not wait that long. <P>Now I want to step back to your situation. Is your H saying these things only when you confront him? Or is he volunteering this info? <P>My H accused me of 'forcing' him to make decisions. I pointed out that no matter what avenue I chose, he always used the same excuse. So I no longer saw his excuse as valid. I let him know that he could try to come up with a better and more viable excuse. But that seemed to hard. Lying became harder and harder for the WS. OW was getting tired of helping H lie. The game and the OW was getting old. <P>Cali, you gotta let your H's steamin' anger get old. For both you and him. Your H needs to get plain ol tired of all these games. Maybe you can let your H know that you are tired also. So let him show you how you can throw in the towel and give it all up. <P>Let him do the thinking Cali, stir up his gray cells. He doesn't like to analyze and doesn't like you analyzing him, so don't. When he makes a statement like he is tired of working, just say 'yea, me too. Got any suggestions?' When he says you push him too much or waited too long to work on your marriage, say 'yea, me too, got any suggestions?' Sound like a broken record? Sort of. But you are putting the burden back on him. Maybe that is what he needs and wants. Kinda crazy but just maybe.....<P>So get some rest and don't try too hard. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.

Yeah Orchid...<P>you are so right...but I just don't know how to do this...<P>I'm afraid I'll spend the next one or two years and get complacent and then BANG we get a house and he leaves....<P>Then there's the issue of calls and emails to OW and/or Young-un...I don't think he's sleeping with either one...but you know my agreements...no assumptions...guess I'll buy a box of condoms...I won't necessarily give up SF with him...but dang...if I don't know where it's been...I want it covered!<P>I will try the 'any suggestions.' I actually did my own version of it tonight when he said 'so' about the email account...I said back at ya bud...so? You tell me...<P>and, yeah...he doesn't say these things until I ask...but I feel I have to ask...no assumptions right? <P>Thanks Orchid...maybe I'll take a trip up the coast and we can have dinner sometime...<P>Cali

Hi Cali,<P>I am turing in the for night but I wanted to let you know that I care and certainly feel for you in your situation. <P>You are welcome to stop by anytime. We have a Cheesecake Factory in the San Francisco but they are suppose to open one near me soon!!!! <P>Doesn't matter where we go, just sure would be nice to visit. Take care Cali, he will come around, it just takes a while. He might get a little grayer in the process. <BR>he he he!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<P>You know, I wonder why get tired after 12 years? Is it a special number? Hm...... I have been working for over 25 years. So what? If I only had to work 12 years and have a nice family, wow that would be an accomplishment. But see what the fog does to reason? Go figure....<P>L.

Dear Cali,<BR>sorry to hear this recent development. I really hate the way he uses you for his sex and then acts like it means nothing. That's the bad part because you see it as SF and he is just seemingly getting his rocks off. I'm sorry to come across so crudely, but he is treating you like crap and this is proof. I don't know what to tell you because you can't force him to leave, but you can stop letting him use your body. It's emotionally abusive because your feelings are involved and his are not on the same level. Obviously.<P>Just keep taking it one day at a time like you have been. God will give you peace about what to do, which next step to take and in what direction. You still love him so you have to protect that love if you want the relationship. Even if it means YOU need to move out to maintain your sanity. BOY! I bet THAT would grab his attention... {{{{{XOXO}}}}} (kisses AND hugs)

Hi Cali, So sorry to hear of your pain, maybe if you let him go, eventually he will come back, let him see what he is missing it may take a while but if its meant to be he be back. stay strong you have given me so much support I know you have the strengh to keep going. I will pray for you, I know exactly how you feel I am dealing with simlar issues. ((((((Cali)))))) Love Sally

Hello dear Cali, I feel your pain and hate that you have to endure this. However, you are STRONG so you can do this. Rise above his actions and his words. <P>My H is throwing the same dirt at me. He's worked at this marriage for 10 years, given it his all and doesn't want to give anymore. It's strange how they decide when they want to stop without letting us in on all the unhappiness "WE" caused them over the years. Suddenly, we really weren't happy. It was just my imagination and my H just couldn't bear to tell me. Yeah, right!<P>Just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you and the special person that you are. Your H knows that too. That's why he's so angry. That's why he doesn't want to leave...but perhaps, he needs to for your sake.

Hi Cali,<P>I have been following your story ever since you came on board. I am so sorry for what you experienced last night. I can really say that I have walked in your shoes. My H had an affair last year. Several times he swore he ended it with the OW. We would have great SF but he would become distant and cold again. He never broke it off and was continuing to see her. He also did not want to leave-said the same things your H said to you.<P>Please hold tight. I sense you are at the end emotionally. I got to that place also after six months of lies and deceits. I eventually asked him to leave, he did not want to go but I threw him out. I cannot tell you of the overwhelming sense of peace I felt after he left. My spirit was given a respite from all the tension and my continued temperature taking of our marriage.<P>When he left, I went to Plan B immediately. It was as much for my sanity as to save the marriage. I knew he would miss me once he could have his OW 24/7. He would call me at work and as I have caller ID I would not pick up. He would leave messages begging me to go to lunch. I would ignore the messages and call him back on my way home-long after lunch. <P>My children are older so I arranged to come home from work when I was sure he had left. When it was his turn to have the children for the weekend, I arranged to stay with friends. I avoided him like the plague.<P>It worked. He begged to come home. He has been home for over a year. The actual recovery has been very painful but does get easier. <P>Please, you need to take care of you now. Do not let him give you his agenda. This is all about control. He wants to control you. You have to let him understand you can make it without him. I know you love him. I loved my H too. It hurt so much to let him leave but it was the best way.<P>We were married for 17 years when he had his MLC and EA then PA. We have three beautiful children, D age 15, S age 13 and D age 10. I thought we were happily married like everyone else on this board. The EA and PA was the worst trauma of my life. I may never fully recover but I am working hard to have a better marriage. I do have a better marriage, all of the pain was not for naught.<P>NoMo

Hi Cali,<P>Hang on hon, and help him kick this addiction. If he doesn't want to be married why does he feel it is his duty to put you and kids in a house? He said he had to sin to get your attention...sounds to me like he still wants your attention. I know you are thinking maybe it's time for Plan B, and you are the only one who can say if your ready for that. Either way Cali, I think he'll be back.

(((((( Cali ))))))<P>What a heartbreaking night. What an email address! Sounds too much like goodbye phrase my WH and OW used to end their phone conversations... "soulmates forever" they only stopped, or at least my H did, when our younger son (11) overhead and was upset for days.<P>what makes them think, as adults, who've been around a while that they are 'all life longers' or 'forevers'<P>I'm not sure how this will sound to you, but thought I would mention the benefits of my chosen path.<P>I decided to move out and get my own place. I have very little money, have been broke many times - owe several people now. But at least I could go home, to some place peaceful after difficult conversations with H and painful moments. I am still Plan Aing and occasionally stay over at our house - where H is staying while he sorts himself out. <P>At least I know where he is, I know he's safe, and we have managed to come to an agreement that OW is not allowed in the house. There have been a few slip ups with this, but not for a while and H says it gives him a good excuse to have time alone, without her, to sort things out.<P>It is not an ideal scenario, but it has given me some power again over my own life. I - alone! (well, with the kids) chose where to move, chose how to set it up, choose how to live our daily lives. <P>What an energizer in a situation where I feell I no longer have any control over my life.<P>May be something for you to consider. Saves trying to kick him out anyway.<P>Good luck - take care of yourself today.<P>Laurie<P>p.s. Your comment "if I don't know where its been - I want it covered" almost made me fall of my chair laughing. I too have continued to have a sexual relationship with my H - boy I hate knowing where its been<BR>(fortunately, (I hope) I know)

OH Cali!! I am so sorry for your pain right now!! (((((((((( Cali ))))))))))<P>You know within your heart and mind what is the best and right thing to do (and I'm not talking about what would be the easiest thing to do, because it 'feels better' and 'is not so hard').<P>IMO, now is when you should allow logic to override your emotions. You've been going the opposite way, and it's killing me (and everyone else on here) to see the pain it's causing you.<P>Karen

dearest Cali,<BR>I don't have anything to add here, hun. I'm just so sorry. YOU have been so faithful and true. You have been doing so great. I'm so sorry your H doesn't see that and appreciate the wonderful wife you are.<P>((((((((cali))))))))<P>We're here for you. I know you'l make the right decision. I hate to see you hurting like this over and over.

Awwww Cali -- I am so sorry. You work so hard, and you just don't deserve this.<P>I think your H needs to hit rock bottom. And you need to LET HIM. <P>You can't go on meeting his needs, and letting him meet yours while he's still carrying on with these OW. Its got to stop.<P>You have got to set some boundries. You have to make him respect you. <P>Steve has said that very often it is neccessary to separate. This is clearly time for Plan B and a separation.<P>You need him back 100%. And its not going to happen in the environment you have set up right now. He's continuing to take advantage of you, and thats not going to stop until you make it stop.

(((Cali)))<BR>I'm so sorry for your pain. I'm trying as I read the replies to understand why you can't make him leave? How about a legal separation? Is the money stopping you? I know it almost came to that with my H when I needed him to leave for the 2nd time. He said "you can't make me leave, you know." However, I work with attorneys, so I know that had I filed for legal separation, I could have also filed an order to vacate, which would have made him leave. Maybe your H needs this. I can't stand that he continually hurts you and makes this all about you. He's doing the traditional "rewriting of your history" which we've all heard from our WS's. You are right, you CANNOT live the way you are for 1-2 years. If it's a matter of the finances, find out where in your area you can receive help. I'm guessing your teacher's salary is not the best, so if you two are separated, perhaps there are programs to help you get set up on your own with the kids. You have options. You do not have to keep letting him do this to you. They may not be the most comfortable options financially, but as long as you let him stay, it sounds like he's going to use it to his advantage. I pray for you to have the strength and the financial resources to do what you need to do to stop the painful emotional abuse he's got you suffering right now. Take care,<P>MOM

Cali,<BR> I'm so very sorry. I wish there was something I could say to ease your pain. You have been such a great help to me in the past few weeks. All I can offer is my thoughts. Take care of yourself!

Nothing to add marsha, is a bummer, he is not playing fair. We talked about this long ago, how long can you continue to be his mama, he will not be responsible till he is forced to take stock by natural consequences....the natural consequence of not taking care of ones spouse is you lose them, he is beliigerent, aggressive, and waffling beyond acceptable limits for even a ws, it is time to get out the 2 x 4.

Cali, <P>I gotta chime in and agree. It is time for Plan B and get out the bulldozer!! Shove him out the door. The love you do have for him is going to start becoming poisoned by his actions, words, and deeds. (By the way, I don't know that I believe the one month story about the card. Way to coincidental!)<P>He keeps shoving the blame for everything back on you...he is sounding more and more like a very, very typical WS that is just angry he is not in a place where he wants to be. I used to think it may just be depression on his part, but am thinking less and less that is what it is. It sounds as if a really bad case of withdrawal, and he is using the *I dont want to be married anymore* excuse as a way to validate not being your H. He doesn't like the alternative of leaving, so he does the "I will find you a secure home" routine in order to make himself feel he is doing the "right thing". In reality, he is waffling, just as any other WS. YOU need to stay strong for you!!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

{{{{{{{{{{{Cali}}}}}}}}}}}. All I can say is damn it! You've worked so hard and have been such a source of strength for so many on this board.<P>Plan B? I'm thinking it and I know it will be SOOO HARD but hey - he can't keep kicking you down like this. You are worth so much more. You have so much to offer and, well, maybe a bit of reality will kick in for him if he realizes he can't have his cake and eat it too.