My H comes home, eats dinner with me and my D, plays with D after dinner, runs errands for me, etc. H refuses to tell anyone of the separation and continues to go back to the apt to sleep. I was cleaning up some shoes in the garage and didn't see his roller blades. I asked him whether he put them somewhere. He replied that he took them with him to the apt...I asked him whether he's used them. He then blew up and became defensive about me asking him anything. He said, "LET GO. I HAVE. IF I CHOOSE TO COME BACK, it's got to be up to me." <P>So does letting go per the WS mean don't ask ANY questions unless spoken to...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Terrified:<BR><STRONG><BR>So does letting go per the WS mean don't ask ANY questions unless spoken to...</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Pretty much. It means "I want to be free to do as I want, when I want, and not have anyone to answer to. Answering questions is an inconvenience and an annoyance." Your H is following a pretty standard script.

Quit making him dinner, first of all. Also, run your own errands. And yep, don't ask any questions. Don't offer up any information about what YOU'RE doing either. They don't like that! They want it for themselves, but in my H's case, he couldn't stand it when I was doing things HE didn't know about. I know this doesn't seem like MB principles, but I feel like I enabled my H to continue his A as long as every time he came to the house I catered to his whims... Just my opinion, but you need to get tough around him (even if you turn to jello when he leaves, don't let him see it when he's there). Prayers go out to you!<P>MOM

Terrified:<P>I just can't imagine living under the conditions you are submitting to.<BR>He gets to pretend everything is hunky-dory to the rest of the world, be around his kid (who he is totally betraying), treat you like c**p, go home to his little apartment and continue his EA......<BR>WHERE ARE HIS CONSEQUENCES???<P>Sure, you want him back. I get that. I get Plan A. I get not asking.....<BR>BUT WHY oh WHY are you allowing him to treat YOU like a doormat. <BR> [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <P>He obviously deserves his family AND his affair. He deserves to do what ever the hell he chooses to do. He deserves to not have to deal with the consequences of his disgusting behavior seeing the light of day with your friends/family. <P><B>What do you deserve?</B><P>LLL

<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: MMMMM ]</p>

Plan A has absolutely nothing to do with being a doormat. If you find yourself being a doormat then you are not doing Plan A. Plan A is about making yourself a better person, the focus is on yourself not on trying to change your WS's behavior.The objective of Plan A is to change you, not WS. <P>Do not expect Plan A to change your WS, it's not about that at all. It's about making yourself the more attractive option by improving yourself as a person. Plan A and self respect go hand in hand. Plan A is not about letting WS walk all over you.

T,<BR>Mthrrhbard is one of MY hero's. If you want to learn a thing or two, search her post and read.<BR>It's fustrating to see you hurt over and over again, however you get the BEST advise on the board. Posters rally to you, pages and pages. It just does not seem like the advise given is getting anywhere with you. <BR>Over and over I see posts to you:<BR>Tell<BR>don't be a doormat<BR>work on yourself<BR>get your selfrespect back<BR>tell<BR>don't cook for him<BR>tell<BR>get your own life<BR>tell<BR>don't ask questions<BR>tell<BR>run your own errands and life<BR>tell<P>I know that this is the hardest thing you have ever done. I know that you hurting more that ever. I know you can't sleep, eat, think.<BR>But if you don't get a back bone, you will learn to HATE him because you will hate what you have become.<BR> <BR>He has no respect for you, if he did he would not continue to disrespect you.<P>T, We want to rejoice in your growth. When we hear about it, the "party will start".<P>In the meantime, search mthrrhbard and read.

Hello all and thanks for your replies, I know I'm being a doormat. I thought I once read that if you feel like a doormat, then you're in a good Plan A? Perhaps, I have it wrong. I guess it's all so confusing right now. H says he's let go and I haven't...I guess I just don't know how to stop thinking of him, his whereabouts, his thoughts, just basic "spousal" things!!! My mind has always included him. How do you take it out of the mind? When I think of my D, he comes to mind because he's such a big part of her life...professionally, I have a huge load but he's always been a part of that too. I'm just having a really hard time with knowing how NOT to think of HIM.

T,<P>I think the "doormat" thing comes from worrying about what your spouse is/isn't doing. You feel like you are doing all of the work and getting pretty dirty. Well, when you are Plan Aing, you are working on yourself. I feel like a doormat many times when I am not focusing on myself but rather how I'd like to change my W behavior. If you feel like you are doing a lot to change yourself, that is great. Don't let yourself think you are a doormat to be stepped on and soiled but rather you are a "Welcome Home" or "Friends Here" doormat. If you want to focus on the doormat concept, focus on washing it off and cleaning it up so the greeting can be read. You want your H to think of you as being safe and open to inviting him in to meet this really neat person.<P>In terms of letting go, I think your H means stop prying and pushing. We all are sensitive to this but the WS even more so. Even though the rollerblades question seemed innocent enough, it was prying. You should have probably just said that you hoped he was able to get out and enjoy them a little and that you are going rollerblading soon and he would be welcome to come with to this new place you found to skate. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <BR>SG

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mthrrhbard:<BR><STRONG>Plan A has absolutely nothing to do with being a doormat. If you find yourself being a doormat then you are not doing Plan A. Plan A is about making yourself a better person, the focus is on yourself not on trying to change your WS's behavior.The objective of Plan A is to change you, not WS. <BR></STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>I hear what you are saying and I agree, to an extent. I will now don my flame retardant suit... BUT I do think there is a certain amount of inevitable, unavoidable "doormat" to all of us who do/have done Plan A. Knowing that your spouse is sleeping with someone else, lying his butt off and treating us like dirt while we still continue to show them unwavering love and kindness doesn't exactly scream "Confident, self assured, take charge." Nor does bending over backwards to meet the emotional needs of someone who is treating you horribly. Plan A worked for me and I do feel like I am a better person for it, better marriage etc. But there were times I did feel like a major doormat and the powerful thing would have been to give him a good swift kick in the pants. There were many times I felt like a doormat, even while the results were beginning to pay off. Letting someone treat us the way most of our WS treated us at the time of the A was not an empowering experience. At least not for me. When I did start to have results I certainly felt pretty doormat when my H would waltz back out of here (after we had a nice dinner with me Plan Aing the whole time, meeting all kinds of ENs) to rejoin his secret life. While in Plan A the BS calls almost all of the shots and we have to figure out how to roll with the punches, and it can get pretty demeaning. I'm glad I stuck through it and the benefits have been great, but it was the hardest, most painful thing I've ever done, and at times quite demoralizing. I do felt like I was my H's doormat when he had his A (and so was the OW). Which is why if he ever had another A there would be no more chances, and if I were to ever be in another cheating relationship it would instantly go to plan D. Divorce. I put up with a lot for the man I love more than anything. But once was enough.

Fairydust,<P>No flames from me. if I remember correctly we had similar experiences!<P>There is a big difference between FEELING like a doormat and BEING a doormat. I agree that Plan A does sometimes feel doormatish(is that a new word?!)The difference lies in drawing boundaries that allow you to keep your self respect. It also insists that, although you grin and bear WS's bad behavior for a time, you do not allow them to be emotionally or verbally abusive and you strive to keep your focus on improving yourself first and foremost. It is my strong opinion that when WS becomes emotionally and verbally abusive it's time for Plan B.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mthrrhbard:<BR><STRONG>Fairydust,<P>No flames from me. if I remember correctly we had similar experiences!<P>There is a big difference between FEELING like a doormat and BEING a doormat. I agree that Plan A does sometimes feel doormatish(is that a new word?!)The difference lies in drawing boundaries that allow you to keep your self respect. It also insists that, although you grin and bear WS's bad behavior for a time, you do not allow them to be emotionally or verbally abusive and you strive to keep your focus on improving yourself first and foremost. It is my strong opinion that when WS becomes emotionally and verbally abusive it's time for Plan B.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Okay, that makes perfect sense! I felt like a doormat at many times, but my H was never verbally or physically abusive to me. Since I never had proof of the A when it was going on either (and he would have denied it to his dying day) it wasn't like he was flaunting it in my face. I don't know if I would have been able to handle that if he had. Probably would have turned ugly lol.

Thanks SG and FD, Thanks for your replies. I must admit it has been hard not thinking about my H and how my changes will affect him. The old "if I change this way, it's certain to get him to want me back" story is/was my focus. Someone recently posted the triange theory which made me realize that I've spent way too much time looking over my shoulder to see how/where my H was, if he was following, etc...it's just hard not to care about them and just about us.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Myownme:
<strong>Quit making him dinner, first of all. Also, run your own errands. And yep, don't ask any questions. Don't offer up any information about what YOU'RE doing either. They don't like that! They want it for themselves, but in my H's case, he couldn't stand it when I was doing things HE didn't know about. I know this doesn't seem like MB principles, but I feel like I enabled my H to continue his A as long as every time he came to the house I catered to his whims... Just my opinion, but you need to get tough around him (even if you turn to jello when he leaves, don't let him see it when he's there). Prayers go out to you!<p>MOM</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Actually, that is basically what Plan B is about..
yes, be nice to them..don't do everything for him..make them see that hey, yes I am here, but,
I have a life too..<p>As far as dinner and such goes, I agree stop making it for him..eat before he gets there..
how long does he stay, does it interfere w/ the kids bedtime? I know this is hard, but they need
to have a schedule, and he needs to learn to respect it, and you..if you have other plans.don't let him interfer with them..ask him to please call before coming over..(remember he no longer lives there) you can even technically change the locks on the doors..so he can't just come and go as he pleases..If he wants to spend time with the kids,
you can say something like..I have some errands to run, can you take the kids to your place and I'll pick them up when I am finished..and then let him take the kids to his place to spend time with them..and go do your errands..he will either really miss coming over, and miss what he has with you..and give up OW, he will get angry at You..for trying to 'control' his life..and when he see's his kids..but, in reality, your taking control back of your own life, and making him responsible for his choice to move out..making him suffer the consequences of his actions..ie: having to prepare his own meals, not allowing him to just come over whenever he feels compelled to do so..make him see what it is he is really losing from his life..
So when he gets angry, just say, I am sorry that you are angry, but this is what you wanted..you wanted to leave the marriage and our family and go do whatever you wanted to do, and not be a part of our family..so which is it that you want? Do you want to be here, as a husband and father? or do you want a life elsewhere, and be a part time father? Those are your only choices..no more can you come and go as you please here..I have a life also, and if you don't want to be apart of it on a daily basis, well, then..don't come over every day
yes, I love you, and yes I want you here but, I can no longer sit in limbo waiting for you to decide what it is you want. <p>This gives you control over your own life, and gives him the freedom to choose one of two things..be here and work on the marriage, or not..but it will ulitmately be his choice..and it takes that third option away..to keep coming and going between you and OW..and in essence controlling you..and decisions you need to make on whats best for you and your kids..if he chooses to stay gone..<p>Hope this helps

Thanks TR for your response. I've often thought about changing the locks but wondered if it would be considered an LB? I've also considered telling my H to bring D to his apt but #1)he's made it clear he doesn't ever want to bring her there because it's basically empty with the exception of a bed and old table from our home and #2)what if OW is around? Although she's from overseas, I'm not sure whether she's come back to visit. <p>All his talk about letting go makes me wonder if she is in fact, physically here with him.