He called in the middle of class...I did a dumb, dumb thing last night...<P>I used the address that was cookied and sent OW a "I Hate You" ecard...musical even...played "Baby's done a bad, bad thing..." (Baby's her pet name for him).<P>So he called to ask why I did it. I told him because I was feeling evil...we snapped back and forth for a minute and I said "Look, I'm kinda teaching right now...I'll call you back."<P>I was obviously upset and luckily a couple of teachers were in the room w/ me and let me exit for a bit...<P>I went to another teacher's room and she prayed with me.<P>At the end of school, another teacher prayed with me.<P>I'm trying to find my voice. I'm trying to listen to what God wants me to do.<P>So at the end of the day, I asked him to come to my room to discuss it.<P>He did...but was angry. I let him lead the talk. I told him our living arrangement was unacceptable. His continued contact with her is disrespectful to me...he argued otherwise...<P>He got very angry...yelling...throwing things...odd being on the other side of such a tantrum...<P>I kept thinking of the Three States of Mind in Marriage...isn't conflict better than withdrawal...<P>Bottomline...it is 'financially difficult' for us to separate or divorce now...H believes that is more problematic to the boys than our actual separation...<P>He said he's worked so hard the last 12 years and he's had it...I never listened to him...I treated him badly and I will never change...He's given his all...I disrespected him...I didn't admire him...He made the decision and now we've got an efft up life...<P>He even made reference to the balance of power and control and said that it was his turn to have me under his thumb...that he would enjoy thwarting me in the legal system..."It was his turn."<P>You know I just can't remember it being so very awful...I just wanted to feel like his wife...I wanted to be taken care of...I wanted a partner...unfortunately...I didn't go about it right...I expected instead of informing...I wanted him to 'get' it without me telling him...I yelled and screamed to get his attention when I felt I couldn't get it any other way...I said I'm sorry way too often...<P>But I wasn't a bad wife. I cook HOMEMADE meals 4-5 nights out of 7. I bake. Christmas and Thanksgiving are filled with special treats. I'm not a terrific housekeeper...but neither is he...and we both work fulltime...I tried to keep track of the bills...began to resent it...especially when he kept career hopping...I'll admit I finally got frustrated and 'demanded' that he have something steady like teaching...<P>The crux...I never felt like his girlfriend or his wife...I never felt like he chose me and I was constantly 'fighting' him to be the husband I wanted. He never wanted to be a husband. He didn't even know how to be a husband...<P>Is it worth the ugliness to 'force' him to leave? Do I leave? Unless I push the issue...unless I have a 'surprise discovery' and call him on it...it is peaceful. We don't fight or argue...I don't care about the house anymore...I don't care if he cleans or does dishes...I don't care what time he comes home...and that's basically what I would get angry about...chores...bills...and time spent away from me...<P>We get along well. I don't know about SF...it's a tough one for me...it's always been our best connection...but it's starting to hurt...all these years I thought it was special...he's always turned me on...I've never had to fake...I've never refused him...<P>I'm so confused...so hurt...so tired...but it's different from this summer...<P>I just can't keep hoping and I will if he stays...that's what I told him...I will delude myself...the kids will start to feel safe again...then we'll get a house and he'll leave?<P>I'm 38 years old...I have three kids and I've never really been someone's girlfriend...there's something very sad about that...maybe I fight because I just don't want to believe that I've been deluding myself all these years...that I just latched on to the first man who showed interest in me...slept with me and called it love...<P>Cali

Cali-<BR>I just got done reading your other post. I know you are going through a rough time. Its so very hard to figure out exactly what we should be doing. I know you have been so strong and have been plan Aing your butt off but maybe it is time for him to as my MC says "sh** or get off the pot". <P> I'm so glad that you have friends at school that can take the time to pray with you. I hope it can give you at least a little bit of peace. {{{{{{{{CALI)))))))))

Hey Cali,<P>Hugs for you tonite and prayers too, lots of them. I know how hard it is, I really do. First and foremost honey you've got to maintain your self respect, you owe it to yourself and your boys. They will learn that it is ok to treat a woman this way if you don't insist on the respect you deserve. <P>You deserve more than crumbs. You can have more than crumbs. God intends for you to be loved. <P>{{{{{{{Cali}}}}}}}}}

Cali<P>{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}<P>I am so sorry...<P>And I'm about to say what some people here will probably jump all over me for saying. I think it's time for you to see a lawyer. You and your children need protection from him. You deserve so much more then this. And you have been Plan Aing him for so long. It seems to get worse and worse.<P>Take care of you and your children,<P>Z

HI,<BR> No advice here just a big hug <BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cali}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR> Don't rush into anything based on the last few days. Deep breaths.... Only you know what you can take. GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK

Cali<P>I am so sorry for your pain. I really don't know what to say. I am just thinking and praying for you.<P><BR> (((((((((((cali))))))))))<P> a big hug to you girl<P>Stay Strong

Dear Cali,<P>I am again sorry to see you suffering so much. You are right after all is weighed said and done, it comes down to the real issues. <P>For me it was getting the OW out of my life, even if it meant the WS going out as well. It got to that point for me and Cali, I meant it. Mine did not want to leave either but see how disrespectful he is being by flaunting that relationship in front of you and the boys? Well, whether they acknowledge as a flaunt or not, it is not up to them to decide, it is up to you. If you feel it is a flaunt, then it is. <P>Step back and review Cali. Plan B is not hurtful. Hard as it is to imagine it is more of a relief. You may not realize how much of a burden you are carrying. <P>When I put the onis back on WS, it took the burden off of me. I was unknowingly carrying the burden of the A all by myself. <P>How was I doing that? I wondered and worried where H was, what was he doing, was he with her, what was she saying, what were they doing, etc. Drove me nuts. <P>It took a few days but eventually in plan B, I learned inner peace. In fact, I was so busy concentrating on me that it began to get irritating that the WS would call so much. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <P>But plan B turned out to be for my protection. I did not execute a perfect one nor was I in it long, but it is still there ready to be implemented if I need to. I am no longer afraid of plan B. <P>Cali, you have learned much here, but the actual step requires more than just reading and hearing. It requires understanding and then implementing it. Know that the WS can go out even farther. Don't worry about making it financially harder for him, that is his choice. It does help when they recognize the financial hardship. <P>Hugs to you and your family. <P>L.

((((((((((((((((Cali)))))))))))))))))<P>Everything you wrote about your marriage touched me to the core, because that is how my H is describing our marriage right now.<P>I sent him a Plan B letter and a week later he wrote back. One of the things he said was that he always knew 'it' wasn't right. So since then I have been thinking I have lived in a sham of a relationship, a one sided love, a lie. The written word is powerful because it is with forethought, and so it hurt me much more than I anticipated...he has said those words before, but until the letter, I didn't think he meant it. Now I do.<P>I know how you feel...it's like your whole married life wasn't real, and that you never knew this man. Why did he allow children into the world, if he knew he never loved you? My H did the same thing. I can only surmise that no-one can live a lie for 15 years in your case and 17 years in mine. It cannot be done. Take heart in knowing that he DID love you, he just cannot recall it right now...the fog.<P>Like you I knew there were problems and faults on both sides, but they were never that bad...I was completely shocked at how my marriage has ended. I feel I gave him 100% of me to better himself, then once he hit the high rung on the career ladder, he threw me out of his life. Now I am going to live life as a third class citizen, all because he is selfish.<P>What can we do, Cali? As I said I have moved into Plan B, and I did it to protect myself from further pain. It hurt to hear his flat voice on the telephone. It hurt not to get replies for nice emails, or thoughtful things I tried to do for him. It hurt me when I realised that OW is still fully in the picture and means more to him than his own kids. So I had to put up a wall for myself.<P>Maybe it is time for you to have a break, and get some perspective. Maybe, if he won't go, you should, with the kids, btw...never, ever walk out on your kids, not that I think you would. Look at me, I had nowhere to go, I was in a foreign country when this happened to me. I had to fly home, and I have stayed with my folks for 7 weeks now, looking for a place of my own. <P>So if you want peace, it can be done. Living with his obvious contempt will destroy you, Cali. I feel so much stronger now I have removed all contact from him, except for kids and business, and then only by email.<P>And best of all, doing it like this...I have my head held high. I am not doing all that LB'ing that he is so fond of accusing me of. I am not being clingy. I am learning to live for myself and my kids, and I am learning to be strong.<P>Maybe it is time for you, too, Cali. You have fought a good fight.<P>Love and light,<P>Jacky

Cali - first of all (((((((CALI))))))<P> I think you've gotten good advice. This is what speaks to me.<P> What do you do? How to respond to this mess? When you are in the grip of STRONG emotions, "just don't do something, stand there !" Get it? Choosing a response based on reactivity will not further what you want in any way. ( I have been the king of reactive responses, by the way)<P> I think what you choose to do needs to be in concert w your core values. With what you believe to be right. Very simple. Very difficult. Be impeccable in your word.<P> Take nothing personally. His angry outbursts has more to do with his internal battle than with anything you are or are not doing. This is not about you, though it emphatically impacts you.<P> Cali, you are BEAUTIFUL, whether he can see it or not. His poison does not change your beauty in any way. Your e-mail does not change it either.<P> Take nothing personally. Be impeccable in your word. What does your core tell you? Not sure? Then it's not time to act, unless safety is an issue. When you speak from your core, you will have found your voice. When you speak from a position of reactivity, he won't hear you. Then you really aren't speaking for you. <P> God bless you Cali. I pray for your strength and wisdom and love. And for your children. And that your husband learns to see.<P> This is how I think at this point in my journey, for what it may be worth.<P> Dan

Cali,<P>Orchid makes a very,very valid point in regards to Plan B and financial difficulty.<P>Plan B, IMHO, works even better when there is a financial strain involved. In my case, H didn't have the liberty to go out and rent his own apt, he had to move in with a family friend. Boy, that was sure less than comfortable! But guess what, IT WAS REALITY, the natural consequence of his choice! It was just one more thing that made him think and ralize that to be divorced was not going to be pleasant. He got to see that he would lose a lot more than just his wife and kids. He was at stake of losing almost everything he had worked so hard for. Alimony and child support for 3 kids and no house was not looking like greener grass. He hadn't taken all that into perspective when he kept saying he didn't want to be married anymore. It was the moving out that made it smack him in the face. On top of that, the kids refused to spend time with him in his new spot. That was even a bigger eye opener.<P>If it is financially difficult you have an edge over the BS who's WS has all the money in the world to make their new life comfortable. Money can buy comfort and the services BS used to do at home. This is one instance where having less is more!

I'm just as bad as you are Cali. I've done mega LB's like your e-card far too many times. Unfortunately, some habits are hard to break, and I have to admit, I'm still chuckling inside.. with a smirk on my face. I would have sent an e-card like that too! (note to newbies... this is NOT a good MB move... it's counterproductive).<P>I agree with Z on the getting a lawyer thing. You have to stop being the doormat (for lack of a better word). You need plan B, and with the help of a lawyer, I'm betting you could have H out of the house. Yes, it's all hard to deal with (emotionally, physically, etc)... but as you said in a previous thread, you can't go on like this for another 1 - 2 yrs. How could you handle it for even another 1 -2 months? What's the difference?<P>Karen