My Wife and I have been in recovery now since about mid July. <BR>For those of you who don't know my story, I was WS first, then she became WS. We both have given up those things and are working on marriage. We are living together, but in seperate rooms.<BR>We are going to Marriage Counseling together and seperately sometimes and I have seen tremendous progress in myself, but...my wife keeps asking me questions like, "Will you sign the papers if I file?", or "Would you rather me leave now, just cut the chord, or stay with the full knowledge that I am going to leave anyway?" We have had some genuinely good times in the past couple months. Sometimes we are sad, sometimes angry, but in all of this, she claims she is seeking the will of God. Wants that more than anything, but then says things like, "I have no feelings toward you, feel dead inside, numb, I am praying, but God isn't returning those feelings and maybe that means He wants us to be divorced", am I missing something here?<BR>We both go to church, have had service after service directly address our situation. Even to the point of using words she says, ie, dead, numb, no feelings, like things will never change. But the message is always the same, God hates divorce, your marriage was not a mistake, you have been brought to this place for a reason to grow. Things always seem much better after services like that, but then, its like a haze or fog washes over her face. I recognize it as soon as it happens. She becomes cold, uncaring, like she just wants to escape from her trouble and relocate. <BR>I am wondering if its possible to be in the fog without being in an affair? I don't fear she's seeing another person. I don't worry that she is going to do that again, but can a fog be just as strong without? Maybe this is a question for Steve...anyone, anyone.

Faith1 are you out there. Wanting to hear your take on this.<BR>Anyone else?<BR>Just needing a little perspective here.<BR>Anyone? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

I definately feel that a spouse can be in a fog without there being an affair going on. My H is in one. He is adament about "moving on" with our divorce and getting things settled, but then says things like this - <BR>"I'll love you till the day I die" "I want what is best for you." And last night we had very passionate sex. <BR>I asked him this morning what he would say to someone who asked why we were getting a divorce. His response, "the marriage is dead" I told him the words and the music didn't match and he is confused.<BR>Yes, we have problems. We wrote the book on problems. OP is not one of our problems. We also have 3 beautiful children and I feel like we owe it to them to try to keep this together. He says he knows it won't work.<BR>Fog? You tell me.<BR>Good Luck,<BR>M

MH,<P>Ok, I'll throw in my $0.02 for a little perspective...Yes, it can seem like a fog even though the A is over. She's still in the fog. She's still afraid at times. My W (the WS) says many of the same positive things that your W says then, other times, I see that look also. It is a look of someone that is uncertain, someone that is scared. Keep trying to make changes in yourself that will appeal to her and make her feel safe. Don't bring up the A (either one). Don't question her when she is vulnerable (when she gets that look). Wait until she feels safe. Take it easy. It really sounds like things are changing in a good way for you guys. I get frustrated too at seeing this behavior or reaction in my W, even 6 months after d-day.<BR>SG

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> "I have no feelings toward you, feel dead inside, numb, I am praying, but God isn't returning those feelings and maybe that means He wants us to be divorced", am I missing something here?<BR>We both go to church, have had service after service directly address our situation. Even to the point of using words she says, ie, dead, numb, no feelings, like things will never change. But the message is always the same, God hates divorce, your marriage was not a mistake, you have been brought to this place for a reason to grow. Things always seem much better after services like that, but then, its like a haze or fog washes over her face. I recognize it as soon as it happens. She becomes cold, uncaring, like she just wants to escape from her trouble and relocate. <BR>I am wondering if its possible to be in the fog without being in an affair? I don't fear she's seeing another person. I don't worry that she is going to do that again, but can a fog be just as strong without? Maybe this is a question for Steve...anyone, anyone.[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I really don't know. I think the fog has a lot to do with the OP, that alternate fantasy life where everything is perfect and the OP can do no wrong, will never make you mad or annoy you. I do think people can be in a mid life crisis and be in a fog (the pathetic 40 year old who is convinced he can pass for 25 and all the chicks want him). But to me "fog" is more about strange behavior and unrealistic expectations. Like the person is living his/her life in a Dali, surrealist painting but it looks completely normal to them. There are people who really do just fall out of love, or realize it wasn't meant to be (not saying that is the case with you and your W). I lived with someone for 5 years and I felt that way. We just crossed a line that no amount of Plan A or anything else would have fixed. I walked away and never missed him for a second or regretted my decision in the slightest. But there are many cases where the love CAN be restored. It might just depend on how long you are both willing to wait and work on it.

Need more...so back to top [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

There are many of those here on this board whose marriages are in trouble because of OP. It is such a devastating and painful experience to have to go through and this site is a blessing for many. However, sometimes I feel as if some automatically assume that everyone here is here because of betrayal. That is not always the case.<p>It is entirely possible to be in a fog without another person being involved. And there are many reasons for causing it aside from EA/PA's. Traumatic life events can cause it, stress, MLC, substance abuse, depression are also very common. <p>My H suffers from depression and overused alcohol to dull the pain. We were under a lot of stress when our problems began and we underwent some major life changes all within a few months. The pain just became to overwhelming to deal with and so the fog settled in to help numb the outside world. And yes, I believe the idea of a life without problems seemed possible to him and he wanted his fantasy life instead.<p>I am in no way minimizing the disastrous effects A's have on relationships, and my heart goes out to all of the BS. It is easier to relate to and advise those who are going through similar things.
But remember, unfortunately there are so many different reasons for us to be here. Too many to count actually. But whatever the cause of why we are hear, we are hear for one reason...to save our marriages.<p>Good luck,
Kathy

MH,
I'm sorry I have stayed away from your thread. Lately, I have truly been so interested in an update on you and CH... I have been wondering about you, but your subject had me a little *skeered*. hehe.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] so I haven't read it until a little birdie told me to stop in. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I often wondered this in my own marriage during the last 5 months of my situation. I posted a similar question a while back ... something like "what if he just doesn't love me anymore?". <p>You've gotten some wonderful advice here. Lemme think a bit. I feel some "inspiration" coming... and I'll be back. k? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hang in there....

MH, I found an interesting thread you may want to read. It's about foggy things WS's say. It's not exactly what you are asking.... but see what you think. I did a search on with words: definition fog, in the GQ forum, any date. You may want to see some of the other threads that come up with that search. I'm still thinking about you though. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=007775<p>My basic "theory" is that once an affair has occurred, all feelings and memories of the spouse and the marriage are different. THey will say all kinds of things about not being in love, etc. etc. It really makes us wonder if they mean it or not. Well, they mean it at the time.... but time, patience, and consistency in Plan A should change these feelings and allow love to be restored. The statistic that sticks in my mind is that 85% of all divorces that occur as a result of an affair are regretted later. So, enough time and effort needs to be invested to be sure of the reason for divorce.<p>my 2 cents....

Thank you Faith1...

There were several things I found in there that really helped. I wish CH would take a look. I don't think she visits here much anymore though. She doesn't ever ask if I've posted or anything. Truthfully I don't think she likes much of the concepts because she doesn't agree with many of them. She thinks I sound like a broken record when I mention lovebusting or plan A, she calls me a Stepford Person. I think if the website was about how to divorce and not worry about anything ever again, she might be quoting it to me, so I understand her lack of enthusiasm...<p>Just to update you a bit more, we talked last night. W is convinced of a few of the same things in that post you referenced...that she just wants to move on with her life. That she doesn't have "feelings" of love for me anymore and she will not stay in a relationship where those do not exist. She tells me she believes God can change things, but she has to want them to change and she does not want that. She admits that this might be her problem, not being able to move past this stuff. She has even said that she feels like, because there hasn't been an epiphany on our marriage that it might be God's will for us to be divorced. This might be the first case of this EVER.
She told me last night that she feels I am taking her still living at home for granted and that I manipulate her. I use my belief that God wants our marriage to work to try and force her to my way of thinking. She gets angry because we don't agree that there are options here. That working on the marriage is just one, but divorce is another...I honestly don't think of divorce as an option, but then I'm not wanting out of the marriage now am I!
So I battle with what I am thinking is a Post Affair Fog...PAF. Her actions and words are distant and refuse to let me in. She says she's working on our marriage, but won't engage in meeting emotional needs. She's waiting for a feeling, tells me its not coming, but holds me at arms length, refusing to let me in. I truly am beginning to think she is only staying for image sake, to show everyone who now doesn't support her choice for divorce, that she has tried. Maybe she is trying with all of her might, but by being so distant and detached, how can that truly be?
I recognize many of things she is saying are the same things that people who are having an affair have, but I don't believe that she is. I guess I could be wrong. <p>Thank you Faith for your words, as usual they have helped. I pray God keep you and your situation. I have monitored your posts and believe very much that things are going to come together for you.

I like your term, PAF. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>MH, hang in there. 3 months into Plan A is a very frustrating time. keep doing it. Can you call in and counsel with Steve or Jennifer? That would be wonderful if you could. well worth the money.<p>I believe that CH is like many other spouses in that she is afraid. She was terribly hurt by your A, and her A confused her even more. She is probably scared to believe that you 2 can make it. If she is seeking God's will, and you continue Plan A, that is the best you can do. SHe needs more time to see the best MH, and believe that your marriage is the best thing for her. <p>Sometimes we want to "logic" it - boy I wish I could've said the "right" things to get through to my H. I truly don't know if I could've done anything different. Probably the only thing I could've done different was Plan A better from the VERY beginning, then have time to move to Plan B. But I didn't find this place and get myself under control in time.<p>Don't push her. Don't expect too much. She's trying to work through her pain and confusion the best she can. You are doing great, in that you seem to be strong and doing well - since you don't post very often. right? so that part of your Plan A is great. Have you eliminated LB's? I mean completely? This can be the most important thing (according to Steve). If mentioning MB and LB's and stuff IS an LB to her (makes her unhappy), then don't do it. You can implement the principles here, show her you love her, believe in the marriage and the restoration, PRAY A LOT, and let her choose you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] When she asks questions or talks about doubting, encourage her that the tools are here - we're here for her to ask questions - and that you love her and want to be what she needs - friends right now if that is what she wants.<p>k?
Hope that helps a little.<p>I'm here this weekend. We're here if you need us, or have any specific questions. Plan A is about you, making changes, learning to cope, and demonstrating the changes.

You don't know how much it really helps.
Sometimes the words can just get so tangled up and misconstrued and convaluted. I can't even explain the points where my frustration and hers clash...they just do. But reading about others and seeing situations not unlike mine, or sometimes exactly like mine, well...they give me strength. Also to have friends on this site that encourage and support and just kinda know where you are, that helps too. So don't be surprised if I don't come back for some more advice. <p>We haven't counseled with Steve, but we are still going to a Marriage counselor, Christian and very good. He sees great potential for a great marriage here. <p>I am praying for my wife, praying for wisdom and praying that God's will be done. Its becoming more clear to me that this marriage is very much that, if nothing else than the tremendous amount of opposition that is coming against our reconciliation. Satan knows the potential and is throwing his best stuff at us...well its not going to work.