Hi...If you look at my most recent threads you know that H and I are in a watershed time...<p>ONE big thing is that he absolutely HATES that I post here...he sees you all as my 'cheerleaders.' This occurred after he read my 'Hurricane Cali' thread in June/July and so many cheered me on until [oops not Chris123...] WhoDat came on with the voice of reason...<p>HOWEVER...in the middle of our talk yesterday, he asked me to log onto the site...he did nothing but look at titles of posts...I guess to see what kinds of things I was posting...I have been telling him it is less about HIM and more about ME dealing with stuff...plus the lighthearted or "What do you think" topics...<p>SO...what I want is a post that I can print out for him as to the POSITIVES of this website...especially helpful, I think, would be veterans and WS's as to what this site has brought to them and how it has helped them to change and grow...<p>Thank you in advance for any insight you can lead my H to...<p>Cali<p>[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: JustPlainCali ]</p>

Hi Cali,<p>For me, I come here for the support that I have not received from my H. My H does not come here but that does not mean he does not need support. <p>The kind of support he choose in the past was an OW, which was devasting to our marriage. My H read here for a few days back in April. He was angry at the support I received but them understood that since I was not having an A, that I needed support and wanted to understand what H was going through. <p>My H even accused me of having an A with the men on here. For some crazy reason, he thinks his W (me) is appealing to all men. Hmmmph..... maybe 'a peeling' like a banana but not in much else. I explained that the MB forum was made up of those primarily interested in restorying their own marriage and a few are out there to find out why they can't seem to want their own marriage. He found that interesting but not enough to spend time here to read and learn. <p>I have been here posting since Jan 01. I have learned a lot. The MB concepts may be foreign to many and some may even scoff at them, but until you have tried it, one would be foolish to scoff at what has basically helped so many to become better persons, H, W, F, M, etc. <p>Was my H jealous of my visits here? Yes. Is he still? Yes to a degree. I try to respect him and not post in front of him but he has not forbade me. Just frowned a bit. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Would I like my H to join me in what I have learned here? Yes, I would. I understand this may take time. For us, we are dealing with a man with major childhood issues. This is not a secret and it would be more of a disservice for me to cover over that vital point. <p>It hurt my heart to see the OW throw in my face that I was a bad person, when I was trying desparately to help my H. She had no clue (even to this day) what my H had gone through and what led him down this destructive path. <p>What I have learned is that while my nature was to give the benefit of the doubt. It was a big mistake to give the OW any benefit. In my case, she used my best intentions against me. She was not looking out for anyone's interest but her own. Not even that of my H. <p>Yet, I could not get my H to see that. So, I had to let him go. He was gone for over 5 months. He came back in body but not in spirit. H would take himself back to the OW, until I could not tolerate it any longer. <p>What many WSs don't realize is the physical, mental and emotional pain the BS goes through. Every waking moment is in pain. There is no pleasure and no rest. It is as if the BS is absorbing the pain from the Ws as a protective shield. I wanted so much to protect my H from his abusive destructive self. <p>I learned much later that I could not continue to protect him and take care of our son and myself. So I eventually had to make a choice. Some call it plan B. It was a lifesaver for me. My H felt hurt but I learned to stand up for myself and take care of my real responsibilty. If my H was going to abandon me, there was no one to take care of me and our son except me. So I had to take care of me. <p>Many here like you Cali, come here to do just that. Learn to take care of ourselves. Do we love our spouses? yes. Do we want to remove their pain and suffering? yes. But sometimes we just can't. That hurts too. <p>The 5 stages of grieving was something I sent to my H. I sent trueheart's letter. H read both and never said much. Whether he did or not, he did read it and he did begin to see the pain, I suffered. In fact, he saw the pain many of the BS's suffered here. <p>Does MB teach us to bash our spouses? No. In fact it is just the opposite. Is it easier for the WS to think the BS is here to learn to be bad to the WS? Yes. But it is not true. However, if the WS wants to believe it, there is not a whole lot anyone can do. Except let the WS know they are choosing to believe a lie. <p>I often wonder if I could be a WS. It is hard to imagine. Then again, I am tired just being a BS. I think being a WS takes too much work. I much rather concentrate on something constructive and something I can be successful in. <p>I want my family life back. I want my H back and have him love me again. I want my H and family to be happy. And for me......I still want to be swept off my feet. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>What many WSs don't realize is the physical, mental and emotional pain the BS goes through. Every waking moment is in pain. There is no pleasure and no rest. It is as if the BS is absorbing the pain from the Ws as a protective shield. I wanted so much to protect my H from his abusive destructive self.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Cali,
I am BS and I would like to add my comments as to why I come here, read a lot, and post some. As Orchid said, the pain is almost unbearable at times. In our situation, I had NO clue that we had a problem until the day I came home to a note on the TV, and NO husband! For 2 weeks, I walked around totally numb. I had NO IDEA what was going to happen next, what had happened, or why.<p>When I found MB, it was like a whole new world opened up to me. I found people who knew what HAD happened, what was happening, what would happen, and how I could cope and get through it. Without this place, I KNOW WITHOUT A SHADOW of a doubt, that as soon as I found out about OW, I would have KILLED her and my WH! That's just my personality!<p>WH knew it too. That's why his note said, NO CONTACT between us. It took 3 months to establish contact (NOT searching for him, I found out the next week where he was!), just Plan A'ing, to the point that he was open to contact from me. My WH doesn't HATE me, although I thought it a few times during the early months. He is just in pain, as Orchid said above. I didn't realize that HIS pain might be as bad as mine, or worse. I thought he was living it up!!! Enjoying ALL kinds of happy things. Now I know better, and it puts me in a better place to understand, and support him through this. All these realizations are only because I found this place and learned all the ins and outs of an A, from WS's perspective as well as "veteran" BS's.<p>I thought from day one our M was over - doomed. Without even giving any communication as to WHY or HOW we got to this point, I thought there would be NO closure, or discussion, or trying...NO CHANCE of reconciliation. I don't think that anymore. I believe there IS a chance! I believe we CAN work at restoring it. It wasn't ALL that bad before (although it was stale, dull, monotonous, predictable, took-each-other-for-granted, "safe"). Through his (I believe) MLC, my WH sent out a "wake-up call" for us. He couldn't stand the way things were, and now I see why! Had this not happened, I believe we would have died from boredom! Now, I'm encouraged that IF (still a big IF there!) he will work at it, we can fix what is wrong, and have a better M than we have ever had! If not, I can see from others here, that I will be OK!<p>Am I asking him to leave a *wonderful* person and great new life he's forged out and come back to a miserable existance? NOT AT ALL!! He isn't happy....I can see it in the way he walks, the things he says. He *thought* this would be a way to make his life better, but it hasn't. He didn't know what to do to make his life better. But now I do! I know MB can help us....it has the "tools" marriages need to stay on course and keep the "sparks" going throughout a lifetime together. I pray, dear Cali, that your much-loved H sees it as the wonderful vehicle it is for saving your precious M.<p>This material should be required for anyone wanting to Marry! <p>God Bless you both,
Lupo

Hi Cali<p>I can't speak for others, but I know in my case (BS) that MB had been a very important source of support and learning for me.<p>Support from others who have gone through and are going through this.<p>Learning about myself, my spouse and the dynamics involved in a complex relationship.<p>My W and I are in recovery.<p>Quite frankly, I don't know if I would have made it there without the people at this site. <p>Certainly I would have never been in the position I am now in to capitalize on the opportunity of recovery without the support and insight of those I have found here.<p>I suspect that others are in the same boat.<p>I wish I could do more for all the people who are here hurting due to a tear in their relationship. But all we can do is continue to offer support and a friendly ear.<p>I thank you for yours and wish you well.<p>E

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JustPlainCali:
<strong>This occurred after he read my 'Hurricane Cali' thread in June/July and so many cheered me on until Chris123 came on with the voice of reason...
Cali</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Wait! What did I do & what thread are you referring to?

Hiya Cali and H...<p>As for me, I came here initially to help me deal with things that I had done as a WS. I wanted to understand they whys and how comes for infidelity and to find ways to help me deal with my emotions and guilt. What I have found has gone way past that...
I have learned of the pain, anger, frustrations, and mistrust I have caused. I have learned how to listen, communicate, and pay attention at totally new levels. I have learned the importance of the "little things" that I have to do, and how to talk and ask for things without accusing and trashing my partners feelings and beliefs. I have learned it takes time, patience and dedication to put things back together. I have learned that I can, indeed, have an impact on helping others learn from this experience. I have seen, first hand, and through others trials and tribulations, that many marriages can be fixed and survive this, but it takes two people willing to fight for each other. I have learned of the abundant strength that many here, WS and BS alike, have in order to maintain and keep going even when it seems like they shouldn't. I have learned that I am worth fighting for, as is my partner. I have learned that although circumstances may be different, WS are all basically alike in some fashion and the stories we tell, the rationalizations and justifications we use, and the way we deflect causes for A's are all basically the same. The patterns are similar in all of us, although strengths and durations of phases may be different depending on the strength of the relationship with OP. I have learned that there is nothing more important than the total, complete, and unconditional love of someone that knows us and is willing to forgive us. I have learned that turning to others for support is not a bad thing, and that the reasons for others (spouses) not wanting us here is that they feel, somehow threatened and in the case of WS, attacked. The only way through the maze is to go there together. All of us have grown and changed as a result of others sharing stories, insights, and feelings as well as ideas for coping and outright honesty about each other. Not all posts here are of the rah rah type telling us we are always doing everything correctly and keep up the great work. Many here bring us back to reality and tell us that, in fact, the way we are looking at something may not be what it truly is. Sometimes the truth hurts, but we all respect it and are thankful for it here.<p>Thanks for letting us help you the way you help us. <p>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<p>Trueheart

wow. It's really hard to follow Trueheart. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I found that I shouldn't give up. It's really quite that simple. We all seem to find ourselves in a seemingly hopeless situation from time to time and want to give up. I came here and learned that with a few basic priniciples - principles that we can apply to every area of our life - I had a real oppurtunity to grow myelf, become stronger, help others do the same, and possibly become the spouse my husband would choose to be with, and choose to fight for. I learned to take responsibility for myself, my actins, and my behaviors. I was greatly relieved to know that marriages can survive all kinds of struggles, even affairs, and gained hope that mine might. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>THe friends here on this forum go through similar and different challenges that we go through ourselves. We listen to each other, and help each other think through our own battles. As well, as help each other stay on track on some basic, proven principles that work in a marriage and every relationship in life.

I've learned so much on this site. The main thing that I've learned is that a marriage can SURVIVE after an Affair. It can be stronger, more loving and more wonderful than ever before. I've learned tools to be a better person for me and for my Wayward Spouse Husband. Most importantly, I think this site is for those who absolutely LOVE their spouses, whether they know it in the beginning of journey, or figure it out somewhere along the ride. I'm here because, without a shadow of a doubt, I LOVE MY HUSBAND. I LOVED him when we got married, and after 16 years, most good, some AWFUL and hopefully many GREAT ones to come, I STILL LOVE HIM.<p>For Cali's H: Cali is here because she LOVES you. She wants to be the person that you LOVE more than anyone else in this world. There are NO alterior motives, this site (in my opinion) is fueled by LOVE. Love keeps it running. Love and patience and strength, and prayers, and friends and advice and sound principles.<p>That's my thoughts, and I'm stickin to 'em!<p>MOM

To Marsha's H: I'm a guy and I initially thought this site was for a bunch of whining women. Sorry ladies.<p>But I soon found out that gender had nothing to do with it and this site has perhaps the most comprehensive information about relationships as any other site. Looking back now, I can say that this site probably saved my life.<p>I fully understand your reaction, man, about this site. In fact, it sounds similar to my wife's. She believes that all I do here is to scheme with others on how to hurt her and enact revenge. I don't blame either one of you (you and my W) for your initial reaction. I bet it's universal. I'll bet you feel like you've been blindsided and violated for being the subject of a lot of discussion. Very understandable. <p>But what you may not yet appreciate is that the discussion here has one goal: to help Cali and others like her and I to heal and hopefully restore our marriages - perhaps the most important thing in our world AND to help folks like you when they choose to work on the marriage as well. If the marriage ends up dissolving in spite of our efforts, we can deal with that to - to help the new lonely souls.<p>Yep, sometimes we criticize our spouses and have fun at their expense. I, for one, characterize wayward spouses as having been abducted by aliens and had their brains scrambled - some behavior cannot be explained any other way. But think about this - we do this because we know that our spouses are NOT bad people. We prefer to think of them as being out of character, maybe not fully aware of what's going on - thus being controlled by outside influences. See? We love our spouses. We don't want to believe they're evil, vile creatures bent on hurting us - because they're not. We spend a lot of words trying to figure out why good people do things so out of character.<p>So, I validate your initial skepticism about this site. But, I'll bet if you gave it a chance and looked at it with an open mind, you'd feel differently.<p>Dave<p>[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: worthatry ]</p>

This site has been a lifeline to me since my H's affair 1.5 yrs ago. By applying the MB principles I have learned to be a better wife, friend and lover to my H. I have also been able to vent my pain and anger at having been betrayed in the worst way possible by the man I trusted the most. <p>The feeling of betrayal is really hard to impart to those who haven't experienced it. When I learned of my H's affair was it felt like my insides had been sucked out all at once and I was left as a hollow shell. The journey since then has been full of ups and downs and it has surprised me how deeply this has affected me in every aspect of my life. If only my H had been able to open up to me before....well...one can't dwell on the what if's or if only's.<p>Cali has been able to come here to vent, share her pain, her anger, her frustration as well as her triumphs and positive experiences. She's also told us how much she loves her husband and her family and she has been working hard to rebuild. She's gone through a period of self examination, as many of us have, and is striving to move forward.<p>God bless you Cali, you have shown so much strength and understanding to all in need on this board.<p>[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Alberta ]</p>

Hi Cali,<p>I found this site accidently, if you believe in accidents, in the early part of this year. I was looking for a way to justify leaving my marriage of 26 years to be with the OM in my life. But the more I read here and the more I allowed God to work in my life again, the more I realized my marriage could be saved.<p>My H ordered His Needs/Her Needs and SAA. I wouldn't read them when they first came. I am just now reading them. And my H plan A'd for all he was worth. He has come here a little bit, but not much. He doesn't have the time, but it has been an eye-opener for me.<p>First, I have learned about the needs in my life that led me to seeking out someone to meet them.
Unfortunately, I learned after I was involved with OM and deeply lost in the fog.<p>Secondly, I learned how the BS really feels.
Until I started reading the posts on here and really taking them to heart, I never gave that much attention to how my H felt about finding out I was involved in an A. The more I read, the more I can feel the heart ache that the BS feels.
This helps so much in how I relate to my H now.<p>And lastly, it gives me a greater understanding of marriage. Oh I always knew that marriage was suppose to be for life, but I never realized that without work and effort by both parties, it could become a locked cage, that one person tries to escape. Now I see that with mutual respect and understand of the OP's needs, a marriage can be that wonderful lifelong relationship that one needs in life, apart from God.<p>All of this also caused me to search deep into my relationship with God and find out what I was lacking. I had wandered away from my roots when my needs weren't being met instead of seeking the one who can really meet those needs, God. And by doing so, I let myself become involved in something unholy and very much ungodly, no matter what the OM tried to tell me. I know that my H's circle of close friends that prayed daily for me caused my eyes to open up to the fact the A, no matter how promising it may appear, was in fact a deadly trap.<p>So I now come to MB in hopes of giving encouragement to those BS's who's WS's think there is no hope. For I felt the same way. I encourage those to seek God's guidance for the answers. And I find encouragement for myself when I am waivering with loneliness and longing for the OM.<p>Finding this site was no accident. It was a God appointed meeting. And one I am so grateful for.<p>Debbie

Hi Cali,
I am the WS and my H the BS post here together. We come looking for advice and opinions. I as a WS do not get ridiculed, I get lots of support. My H and and I have received more support here than from any of our friends and our counseler. It is the one place that many people have similar problems and are here to fix it, and recieve helpful tips. <p>I honestly think that if I didn't have Marriage Builder's, that we would be alot worse than what we are now. I thank everbody for their support. Thanks. Sherry [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Cali,
I don&#8217;t know how much I can add to the posts already in this thread, everyone pretty much covered all the main points. For me this site has been a lifesaver! If I had to sum it up into one word, it would have to be understanding. I understand so much more about my motivations and reactions. I understand the motivations and actions of my WS. I understand the pain my W feels as well. I understand my failings in my M. I understand that it doesn&#8217;t have to be terminal. I understand the dynamics of the relationship both my W and I have always ached for.<p>I can fully accredit this site with getting us to the point we are now. I&#8217;ve only been here about 6 weeks but I was well into a &#8220;death spiral&#8221; with my M before discovering this site. I see a real possibility for the kind of relationship we both need now. This site has been instrumental in shining a light in the dark corners of my heart and exposing my faults and shortcomings to the light of day. I am well on my way to becoming the kind of man my W needs, a true partner and a true H. Things I&#8217;d most likely never had the opportunity to attain without the guidance and the insights that I&#8217;ve found here. This site and the wonderful people I&#8217;ve met here have given me the strength to be brutally honest with myself. I am a much better person (and will continue to grow) due to the associations I have made here. I thank you all!!!<p>To Cali&#8217;s H: I can understand your feelings regarding this site. In many respects, I feel the same about the support group of recently divorced or nearly divorced friends that are cheering my W on. Ironically, it was my W that gave me the link. She was quite taken by many of the concepts until she went through the sections on infidelity. I believe having the pain her A has caused spoken of so openly heightened her feelings of guilt. I also think (being still involved with her OM) that the prognosis offered for that relationship wasn&#8217;t what she wanted to hear. I suppose it sort of threw a wet blanket over her &#8220;reality&#8221;. She doesn&#8217;t particularly care for me spending time here either. Understand this&#8230; Assuming we pass this test, she will have a real partner for the first time in our M. She will also have an H capable (for the first time) of giving her the love she so richly deserves. This isn&#8217;t about slamming the WS. We&#8217;re all here because we LOVE our WSs with every fiber of our beings!!! You will surely directly benefit from Cali&#8217;s association with this site should you choose to! I can tell you that I have benefited directly from the width and breadth of her experience and insight. The best of everything to you both!

Sorry Chris (CA123)<p>You always are the voice of reason and my head kept putting you as that voice of reason way back then...<p>I have revised original post...it was WhoDat...<p>http://marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/010012.html<p>
Sorry for confusion...but I read a lot of your posts and you are always so consistent with MB principles...
Cali

Hello Cali and H,<p>Just a quick response, but one that has meaning I hope. I don't believe my marriage would be whole if it weren't for this site. <p>I am the WS. A friend at work realized that I was having marital problems and directed me to this site. I gave it to my husband, who didn't really do anything at first, was reluctant to go to MC, was a mess after D-day. I started coming here because, although I was still fog-bound, deep inside I didn't want to fail my marriage, my children or my husband. I didn't want to walk away without knowing I had done my utmost to repair the damage. So I used the MB principals to clear my head and at least get the problems identified. An added bonus was the desire to stay, but I didn't want to push my luck. I bought the books and encouraged H to read the material and answer the q's. We found a MC, but really we stayed several steps ahead of him because we proactively put to use the principals we learned here.<p>It's been 8 months since d-day, and we are so much better off. It's been a rocky road with more than a few bumps, but the self-discovery and adventure have been well worth it. And look at the payoff: I know my self better, my marriage is intact and healthier than in years, my children are still in their home, and I LOVE MY HUSBAND. <p>I just want to keep going forward, and encourage you to do the same. I don't want a mediocre marriage. No one deserves mediocrity. I strive for excellence and keep working to meet that end.<p>Artemis [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>PS: Cali, you and your eloquent posts were always an encouragement to me. Thank you sincerely. D<p>[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Artemis ]</p>

Cali,<p>Followed your link and checked out 'Hurricane Cali' again, it wasn't as bad as I remembered. The last three pages are quite different than the first one: many people pushing back toward true MB principles. It was a bad thread to view out of context.<p>Lately, I've been coming here a lot to understand why I feel the way I do and see if anyone has any suggestions on how to "snap out of it". Discussions about the Ruiz books have helped as have other "meaning of life/love/marriage" posts.<p>My W was on the other night, too, looking at titles of posts. I guess she didn't see any by me. I wish she would search out my stuff and comment on it. Someone's gotta keep me honest, ya know?<p>I'll echo Artemis' thought and say that if I hadn't come here my W and I would probably still be stuck in a mediocre marriage rut. Now that we're learning how to use MB principles we find that we like being around each other.<p>Good Luck,<p>Jeffers

Cali - I'm not a veteran or WS, but will try to add something. My wife has a new set of friends who are either divorced or unfaithful, and they act as a support group/coach/cheerleader for her, plus covering for each other. I don't have the same option of confiding in my friends or family members, because it will affect their perceptions of my wife, even if the marriage survives. We have three kids, aged 5 to 10, and I want to minimize the risk they'll find out what's going on.<p>This board is great for getting some advice, bouncing ideas, or even just venting. I don't think my wife knows that I post here. She knows I counsel with Steve Harley, and I gave her the SAA book (which she didn't finish). If she did read my posts, there are probably some things I'd rather she not see, but I can easily argue that it's better to post here, instead of LB with her or talk with one of our friends about it.<p>I know some people email or IM off-line from the board, but for me it's anonymous and I like it that way. Just a safe exchange of ideas and emotions.<p>- Tom

My H (ex-WS) does not come here, but I want to tell Cali's H what I have received.<p>I have learned that my H made a bad choice to have an affair, but I had to look within myself to find out what made me less lovable to him than I was when we married. I had gotten lazy at making myself attractive and had settled into what I thought married life was like. I was doing a lot of good things that were keeping me busy, and I thought my H was being selfish to want his needs met all the time. This forum made me better equipped and motivated to save my marriage by meeting my H's needs. My H had the affair, but I created an environment that made it possible. I was able to apologize to my H for that and it helped a great deal in our healing. I wouldn't have been able to do that without seeing the other side from the WSs on this forum.<p>At times, the male members of this forum were able to explain how men's minds and hearts work. Because it wasn't coming from my H, I was able to receive the information without getting hurt and emotional. Somehow, hearing the information from someone other than our spouse made it easier to take and comprehend.<p>The ideas in this site have helped me tremendously and has improved our relationship. My H would agree although he does not come here. He has noticed the changes and as a result, he has fallen back in love with me.

Hey Cali,
I'm a somewhat new BS but the reason I always come back here is because this site, its' books (just read SAA) and you guys are helping me STAY in my marriage even though my husband had an EA. <p>Just to see other people post about how much they love their WS helps me because quite a few "non-virtual" people in my life think I'm nuts not to leave him. <p>LLL

Cali,<p>Would these hyperlinks help? They are posted by a male WS and entitled "What I have learned since my affair":
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=011527
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=31&t=004066<p>I am not sure if this is the kind of thing you mean.<p>Also, both SKM and Scuba2, FWS who don't post much anymore have written many threads and replied to countless others that chronical "how this site helped them to change ang grow". In fact, SKM wrote "The SKM Chronicles", a thread which went through many, many months of recovery and her posts during the various stages:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=31&t=002290<p>Perhaps SKM's chronicles is more what you had in mind.<p>If you let me know what kind of stuff you want to show your H, I would be glad to try to jog my memory. I am not yet in that "veteran" category at 14.8 months post d-day and 12 months since finding this site, but there have been so many great threads even in the 11 months since I started lurking on the forums.<p>Good idea, Cali.<p>OneDay<p>p.s. My H used to be very negative about my reading and posting here (mostly on the In Recovery forum). A few months ago, he asked for my username, with the stated intention of reading my threads. When he first started searching for what I wrote, he was extremely defensive, to the point of telling me what things I had described inaccurately. As time wore on, he became more accepting of the time I spend here. Now, he even asks how my MB friends are doing. If I say "not so well" or "pretty good", he will ask "how so".<p>I guess my point is that the farther along my H comes in accepting responsibility for his conduct and participating in rebuilding our M, the less threatened he is by my spending time and posting on MB. Strange how that is!<p>[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: OneDay ]</p>