I'm working longer hours to avoid going home -- except on days that I know H will be busy or gone.<p>I avoid all conversations with him. I purposely structure my time to avoid any potential "talk" time. I make sure that I am busy or occupied when he's going to bed. I either go to bed super early, often with my littlest one cuddled up with me. Or I take long bubble baths until I know he's gone to bed.<p>Because every single time we talk I love him less. <p>All of you BS's out there -- Please make sure you avoid LB's in Plan A.<p>My H has read all of the books, Hn/Hn, SAA etc. He's been counseled by Steve. <p>And yet he cannot stop himself from LB's. He snoops into everything I own. I have absolutely no safety - no privacy. He's disrespectful and disapproving - I wish you could hear the tone of voice. Tells me (in the same conversation) that I am a great mom and the kids are devoted to me -- and then that he thinks my judgement is so poor that he can't trust me with the kids. He's constantly questioning and interrogating, then telling me that he doesn't believe a single answer that I give.<p>I've given up hope.

Lex, Please don't give up! Somehow, I "hear" that you really don't want to. There's so much attached to "giving up". You're here because deep down, you want to save your marriage. Don't use your H's behaviour as an excuse. <p>Are you giving him reasons to need to snoop? Have you given him reasons to believe that you are recommitted to the marriage and therefore can be trusted? As an observer, it just seems to me that you have one foot in the door instead of both. <p>Give it your all, L. I perceive that you fear letting go and allowing yourself to love him. As Cali once said to you, what do you have to lose or better yet, what do you have to gain?

Lexxxy - if he needs to vent, can you get him to post on a board like this instead? There is one over at divorcebusters.com, doesn't seem as busy as this one, though. There are probably usenet groups, too, where he could post. I've thought some of the things you listed but never said them out loud to my wife. It helps a lot saying them here. If he's read all the books, he must know the damage that LBs cause.<p>If he vented on some other board or group, you would have to stay away from it.<p>Q - do you outwardly react on his LB, or do you simply avoid him?<p>- Tom

Hi, Lexxxy,
You know noone is going to tell you to give up here. Do what you need to do to keep yourself sane, and to keep going. Bubble baths and cuddling with your little one are perfectly fine. I'm so sorry H has such a hard time with LB's. It's so hard to change habits, especially in the midst of pain.<p>Are you trying to Plan A him as well? Avoiding LB's and trying to fill his needs? I'm sorry for having to ask that - I'm sure you tell us the answer to that from time to time. <p>Hang in there, ok? Keep posting here and venting. I apologize if you tend to get flamed from time to time. Just call us on it and we will humbly step back. I admire any WS for being here and making an effort. Please give your H more time and space to work through his anger and DJ issues. I wish he would come here for support.

Until he gives up control it is unlikely to change, but you allready know that. Does it scare you more to be alone, and start over (I get the sense the om was not really worthy either), or that H might imporove some, stop major LB, but then you would have to struggle with it wouldn't make any difference deep down anyways? Sometimes the hardest part for a ws is to admit to themselves it really makes no difference if the spouse LB or not (the issues are about fitting, not behaviour in other words), and it is easier to justify giving up if the spouse is LB some. Then we wonder if we are the cause of the LB, cause we are giving up, or know it won't really make any difference in our deep feelings, and we feel guilty, and it makes us crazy. Don't know if any of this applies to you, or marissa, or some of the other ws in this kind of status, but it worries me alot. I have come up with some explanations though, it will be in my book [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] (if I ever get around to writing it, is about time someone write about the experiences of a ws, and what fitting means in marriage, we have no guidelines, nothing to help us understand, and we end up self-destructing so often.....that shouldn't be). Have you gone really deep yet lexxy, all the way, do you know no matter what your H does you need to be free of the marriage, even if he changed everything you need to be free so you could choose him again....... or not? Have you looked in the mirror and said you are done, and started acting on it, willing to take whatever the consequences are? No turning back? You can't live in limbo like this forever, if you aren't absolutely sure, then suck it up, and do the MB stuff, set your time and your goal for success, and if it doesn't happen, then leave as amicably as possible. The sun will shine again. If you are done now, then start figuring our how to seperate and do it. Sometimes people want to leave, but they can only do it if they have someone to run too, that is a dangerous path lexxy, and it requires great trust. There is also a lot of risk in self-deception. Gathering strength from op is part of love, it must be, is part of being human... but your cognitive side must understand you may also end up alone, with neither op or spouse, and that is the honest way to decide. One (IMO) should never "settle" for op or spouse, one should stand on our own two feet, it is the only way we are worthy ourselves for anyone to "choose" us. The other thing is certainty, we get stuck waiting to know the answer, to know what to do. We watch our spouse and their behaviour, we watch the op (or imagined op's) and what they say, we try to examine ourselves, until finally we realize there is no certainty, there is no answer, there is only possibilities, and probabilities..... that is the last step, you assess all the probabilities, and then you roll the dice (in a manner of speaking)........ partly cause we create our own futures. Drill deep lexxy, be sure you know what drives you, what life really is about, accept every path you can take is gonna be through a fire of intense pain, you cannot do it on feelings alone, you must have your cognitive choices on board, and then act decisively, and courageously. You may come to regret your choice (whatever it may be), but as long as it was your choice, that will assure you can make ajustments over time, it is the act of seizeing control of your life that is important. Good luck.

((((((((((Lexxxy))))))))))<p>Hugs to you, girl.<p>I am so sorry for this pain you're in. I can relate so well. The only advice I can give is to keep on talking to him, even through the hard, ugly times. I think I've heard the same, or very similar words at my house. I would try so hard to let my husband vent at me, let it wash over me, but not stick to me, (you know, sort of like water off a duck's back). Then when he was finished I was sometimes able to draw him back into a dialogue, respond to his anger without LBing and keep on communicating. <p>The One Main Thing I kept repeating to him and myself was that I can't control him, he can't control me, we can only control ourselves. His bad behaviour is no reflection on me, don't use me for an excuse for bad behaviour. I didn't make him say those words, he didn't make me have the affair. Sure, my actions made him feel angry, but only he can control the actions with which he responds. <p>Your husband can choose to look at the situation in a different light with more compassion to you, or he can continue to be angry and hurt you with his words and actions. That's his choice and within his control. <p>You have several different options in response to him but here are two possible: Continue to withdraw because of the pain he causes; OR face the pain and confront him in a non-LB attitude with why his actions hurt you so much and that it must stop for healing to start.<p>There are many ways to break marriage vows, infidelity is just one. Making the marriage unsafe and unprotected is another, and that's what it sounds like he's doing to you. It was a giant hurdle in our marriage, but it's been worth it to get over it. <p>Keep on going Lexxxy. You were such a great source of inspiration to me. I lurked a lot, trying to get my head straightened out. Thank you, and I hope this has been some help.<p>Prayers and hugs to you,
Artemis

Lexxy, <p>I know where you are coming from, but before you jump, before you are too quick to judge (and I realize where you are coming from and what you are trying to do), don't forget, he is going through his form of withdrawal, as well. He is trying to let go of things inside him too!! If everything out of his mouth was negative, I could say walk away and that he may not be able to forgive. But, it sounds to me as though he is trying to work through his triggers and memories! You say that you seek ways to not go home, no communication, no talking....but what if those are triggers for him that signal the times of the affair that hurt him and anger him so much? What if what you are doing now, is making him relive that time? What if you went home, and even if you didn't talk, he knew you were there....that, in itself, could be a sign to him that you are trying. <p>I am not sure, but I don't believe that giving up is what you want either. There is a time, as the old saying goes, when there is darkness before the dawn. It is time to create a new life, a new foundation, a new relationship...nothing can go back to the way it was. That means that both of you will have changes to make....but I think the fact that he does both the positive and negative communication styles says that he loves you and that he is struggling with issues, just as you are with him and yourself. I agree with SnL...look deep at every facet of you, him, the relationship. No matter what you decide, don't fault him for where he is. A myriad of things led to you doing what you did, and him doing what he does...but the underlying thing is...are you absolutely sure it wont change? Give it some thought and revisit Plan A. Try turning it over, upside down and inside out to look at it from a different perspective. I think you will see something new to try. <p>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<p>Trueheart

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{LEXXXY}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p> I am sorry for what you are going through Lexx. I sound like your husband somewhat. But I sure don't want to be like that. I would bet your H doesn't either. <p> jd

Hi Lexxy<p>I am a BS and in many ways have done exactly what your husband is doing to you. AT first, right after D-day, 2-10-01, there was much anger and indignation. I focused that anger at my W and tried to hurt her. Even when I thought that my anger was over, I would find myself in a fit of rage, telling her some of those exact same words. (Your not a good mother) That was the one area that I knew would hurt her the worst. Your husband, like me, does not want to accept what has happened. Sometimes as the BS, we do not want to accept our part in the failure of our marriage. We only want to point fingures at our hurt, our betrayal, our righteousness, our feelings, and on and on..... The pain is greater than I could have ever imagined. Sometimes, when hurt is so great, anger seems to be the only emotion strong enough to dull the pain. However, I now know and fully understand that, if what I really wanted was a whole marriage, that this type of behavior had to end! <p>I did things wrong in our marriage. <p>I ignored my wifes needs in many areas. <p>I have had times when I have been a bad parent. <p>I am not perfect and never will be.<p>God commanded me to love my wife as Christ loves the church and gave himself for it. This does not make me a martyr, this is God's design. If I really believed that God is, then not to trust him is sin. "For him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin." <p>I do love my wife.<p>I do want this marriage.<p>I have to trust God and do good no matter her actions. <p>Lexxy, you staying late at work and avoiding your husband is only raising red flags in his mind. This I can promise. I know it hurts and he probably will say more mean things. You just have to make up your mind if this marriage is what you really want. God promises us the kingdom, and so many times we just eat the crumbs that fall off the Master's table. <p>Can you act out some behaviors that will help ease his uneasiness? <p>Please let your husband read this section if you would like. <p>Lexxy's husband,<p>Trust God! Put Him first! Stop pointing fingers and carrying a club. Stop snooping. You can' control her. If the only way you can keep your wife is by controlling her, do you really want her? <p>If we all get what we deserve, then we are all without hope. If you are hindering the recovery of your marriage, then you are guilty of exactly the same thing as your wife. You are still destroying the union. If God has forgiven you, then you can forgive your wife. Trust Him! Pray always. Seek God over and over again. He will not fail you. Make your home a safe place for your wife. Let her talk, yes it may hurt but don't you want her to heal. If she cannot give exactly what you need for now, then ok, pray, trust God, seek strength in Him, He will not fail you. When you find yourself in difficult conversation, be gentle, ask God to guide your tongue, give you discernment, HE WILL NOT FAIL YOU!!! <p>The good news is that the anger does subside. Love can return. Trust will be re-established. It takes time. It takes faith. You both must desire to do what is right before God. Don't give up!<p>Lexxy, I have prayed for you both even as I send this response. I will continue.... I believe that God will answer, when we continually seek Him. <p>Artemis' Husband
Guardian
In recovery<p>Psalm 61

Hugz Lexxxy!<p>My heart is with you...<p>I will pray that your H 'sees' that is actions with you are not helping...<p>On the other hand, my H and I had a discussion last night where he did not like my tone of voice...NOW I KNOW... that my tone WAS not disrespectful or accusatory or even parental...but his own guilt was filtering what I was saying...(I didn't say this though...I said what specifically do you mean? How is it?)<p>Have you had a frank discussion with him about his tone of voice?...my H did and it caused me to 'hear' myself and helped me to change...but I can't change how my H is hearing me...<p>I don't know...I really feel for you...but maybe you are avoiding the conflicts...that has been my H's MO...avoid avoid avoid...even what he tells me now is avoid...<p>avoidance of the issues or conflict is not going to help...as hard as it is...I have to accept my H's anger and his LB's to me...I stay extremely calm and am the voice of reason...<p>I guess you just have to make a decision, Lexxxy...just like I have to make a decision...<p>Again, my heart and prayers are with you...<p>Cali

Hi Lexxy. I'm so sorry that your H can't let go
of the past and really try to focus on here and now. Is there any possible way you can convince him to come here or go to counseling? I'm sure your pain is unbearable at times but don't give up hope yet. Have you tried writing him a letter trying to explain your feelings? I'm sure by you staying late at work and avoiding him it is making his mind race with crazy thoughts about the A. Lexxxy I'm praying for you and your H. Take care.
C