D-day was 9/23, and this was also the day H (WS) moved back in after a six-day separation. I thought we were going to pursue recovery as in SAA as H originally agreed to do "ANYTHING" to rebuild the marriage, but he has since ended up digging in his heels about several things, most important refusing to quit working with OW, so I eventually gave up and went to plan A.<p>He did, however, agree to the Retrouvaille program, which we are to begin this weekend. Has anyone attended the Retrouvaille weekend and 12 weekly followup sessions? And if so, how did you integrate it with MB and specifically plan A?<p>Part of my plan A has been to avoid mentioning the A, OW, the status of our relationship and/or my feelings about any of those subjects, as it agitates and angers him. If I'm supposed to share my feelings with him this weekend (which I have been keeping to myself), will that interfere with plan A?<p>I'm apprehensive about this weekend, so I hope someone who's done both MB and Retrouvaille can help. Thanks.<p>Conqueror

Conqueror,<p>An old timer named "AZ Allison" and her H have done the Retrouvaille program. I do not have her email handy, I'll look for it for you.<p>Hopefully she is lurking and can answer your thread.<p>Jo

Conqueror...
Sad_N_Lonely has also done Retrouville....I am looking into the program and will anxiously await your verdict and description of the progam...<p>Good Luck,
Cali

Conquerer,<p>Retrouvaille is a great program. However, my d-day was on the 2nd day of this program so we did not finish our weekend. I hope we can attend another one soon.<p>You dod need to share your feleings with your H, but the people at Retrouvaille ask you to avoid any touchy subjects. They want you to get back to the basics of communication and not fight the whole weekend.<p>My H also still works with OW [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] so I'd like to chat with you more about that as well as Retrouvaille, however, today my time is limited. (You might want to check out some threads we have going on in Recovery.)<p>Good Luck, let us know what happens.
Heck<p>[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: heckofagal ]</p>

My H is Sad_n_lonely, we did retrouville program. You go for the weekend. You go the first night, and talk about what is hurting you the most. Mine was my H physical affair. The worst thing about the retrouville program for me, was I heard my H say outside our bedroom window to his lover on his cellphone, that he loved her 5 times, gave her big kisses on the phone, and squeezy hugs 10 minutes before we were to leave for retrouville. He came back in the house like nothing happened, and I told him I was not going. And I told him I heard everything outside the window. Of course he blamed me for listening and blew up. He also told the OW don't call him, no phones allowed, and he will call her when he got back.<p>So our first night was terrible. I didn't unpack, cause I really didn't want to stay. He didn't realize how he hurt me. We had a couple come to our room to talk to us. I hated H at this time. I just wanted to go home, and pack and leave. <p>The couple told H, you are suppose to have the OP out of your life. H said he knew, and they said, why are you here. He basically said to work on his marriage to me. We haven't made love in months and months, only one bed to sleep on. I hated that weekend. The weekend involved, hours of writting. You talk about how you feel, you express your feelings, so they are not criticizing your spouse. The weekend is intense. H talked to the priest there, and asked why should a marriage be resolved? I knew he didn't want to be there, and I actually wanted to go home the second day. Anyways, there was a lot of talking and crying by most. It was a heartwrenching weekend. The 12 sessions following, you meet on Friday night. Will that didn't last long for us. H said he was bored with it and why coerce someone to do what they didn't want to do. I came home crying from the meetings. We only attended 4 and then I cancelled the sessions. H wouldn't want to do the homework, assigned everyweek. He said it was boring. <p>Basically, it works for those who want their marriage, and if one does not want it, it won't work. Just like MB, it works if both want to be there and working on the marriage. That is why we are still struggling.

We're back, and I can see how your weekend and followup went the way it did, Thinker, under those circumstances--it really took a lot of courage for you to go and try after that!<p>The Retrouvaille weekend did not help with the fact that H still works with OW and he still gets angry and defensive about topics related to the A and its sequelae, so I still consider myself to be in plan A, MB-wise. But it did help with communication within the assignments, and overall it was a very positive and inspiring experience for both of us. Our next followup is tomorrow night, and H is committed to doing all the homework and followups, and throughout the weekend he actually expressed more positive feelings than I did and seemed more "up" than I was. We both cried a lot.<p>I wholeheartedly recommend it. I saw some amazing transformations in some of the people there and heard such inspiring messages. It is a given that the presenting couples inspire hope, and their courage and the love they have for us, total strangers, to bare their souls and tell their marriage stories is nothing short of awesome, but even more amazing were the ones there for the first time just like us who spoke up during the open time (no one has to talk to the group--it is totally voluntary). You really feel a sense of unity in such a group because EVERYONE is in or has experienced the agony you are feeling.<p>One of the greatest things I learned is that you cannot judge a book by its cover because I would discover when some of the first-timers spoke up that the things they said were the complete opposite of my first impression of them, and I am really looking forward to getting to know such special people. These are courageous people. It is like meeting everyone here on this board face-to-face. People who are doing the hard work of looking within themselves and facing what they find and willing to change and at the same time learning to accept their spouse (and by extension, others) as the unique and special individuals they are.<p>If you decide to go and your spouse is willing to go, commit to staying the entire weekend no matter what happens. One couple left Friday night, which was very sad, but even sadder was thinking about the couples who had to be turned away for lack of space who could have filled that slot instead. The coordinators said that they had received calls representing 120 endangered marriages for the month preceding the weekend, yet could only accommodate 25 couples.<p>If you ever feel like giving up once you're there, go and talk to one of the presenting couples, and they will comfort you and help you. I've worked with volunteers in several different "causes" before, and I have never seen more dedication. The people I met have such a burden on their hearts to help others who are where they've been. They call themselves wounded healers, and that is a perfect description if you can picture a battlefield. Their wounds are bound up enough so that they can tend to those of us who are still bleeding.<p>Now I can answer my own question about integrating Retrouvaille with MB. From my point of view, Retrouvaille gives you a community of fellow sojourners in which to make your journey, and this is a life-saver for me. It is like the community we have here all in one geographical place in the flesh. And even better, you have whole couples in it together, so it is such a team feeling. Even the children benefit. For instance, just this week alone we have our first followup session tomorrow night and then there is a Halloween Party Wednesday night for the whole family, so we'll be able to spend quality fun time with the new friends we've met.<p>In Retrouvaille you learn a method of communicating with each other that enables understanding and accepting each other. H was very excited about this. He described his feeling like FINALLY finding the right tool for the job or like having a huge keyring with dozens of keys and the frustration of trying every single one and then the feeling of trying the very last one and feeling it slide right in and turn just right and the door opening up onto a bright hope.<p>My feelings are more tentative. I described it like the excitement of watching your baby learn to walk. You're excited and hopeful, but also kind of holding your breath and tensed up, staying within inches on either side to catch the baby in case he starts to fall. In this description the "baby" is the relationship.<p>So, I see Retrouvaille as an environment and MB as a toolbox to use within the environment, so I see them as complementary and able to be used together. There are many similarities--Retrouvaille also discourages judgments, for example, and I'm sure we'll learn more as we go through the followups. Retrouvaille helps you to stay connected or in the stage of Intimacy in MB terms.<p>I've never been to a Marriage Builders Weekend, but I would if there was one scheduled here. So, if like me, you can't get to a MB weekend, but do have Retrouvaille available nearby, it is worth a try. The only drawback for H was the religious aspect, and he refused to attend Mass, but other than that, he loved it. So, H probably would have preferred a MB weekend if it is not as overtly spiritual.<p>We are not Catholic, but we married each other because we both wanted a Christian marriage, and we used to pray and attend worship together until the deterioration of the M and then the A. Up until the weekend, whenever H would refer to God, religion, or his spirituality, he would tell me that he may never get back to where he was in regard to God and his previous belief and value system and that I should give up all expectatons for that, which I did. This weekend, for the first time, he wrote to me that he knew he would find his way back to God, but just didn't know how right now, so this was a big change in attitude and outlook for him.<p>So, the weekend can effect big changes, but I imagine that in order to maintain and stabilize whatever changes may take place, you have to stick to the followups and work on what you've learned EVERY SINGLE DAY.<p>Conqueror

[img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am definitely looking into it...<p>I basically asked my H, if we were staying together because of finances...because of children...shouldn't we make sure that the environement they lived in was the best possible?<p>...he didn't totally dismiss the idea...<p>I hope that it continues to work for you Conqueror.<p>Cali

Just have to get my 2 cents worth in!<p>We had our Retrouvaille weekend on Oct 12 - 14. It was the most awesome, incredible, spiritual and perhaps life altering weekend of both our lives. Our presenters were wonderful as well as the Priest that was there. I felt so much genuine love and concern and so much dedication from the presenting couples and the Priest. (We are not Catholic, but this Priest handled this with such grace and included us in all situations.)<p>We have just had our 2nd follow-up session which we are doing by telconferencing. Both my H and I are enthused and encouraged with the direction this is taking us.<p>HOWEVER, I believe the timing was right for us. Had we done this "before" - during all the turmoil and before we both knew we wanted this to work - it would not have been as effective.<p>Short timeline: H's A lasted from June to Dec 99; continued contact from Dec 99 to July 00 - and since then many, many issues and tears. We have seen two different counsellors together, we have read many books together and I have delved in to ANYTHING that might help me. We've been married 25 yrs - and neither one of us wanted to give it up - but didn't know what to do along the way of this recovery. We also took the 8-wk HN/HN course last Jan - Mar and it was wonderful! I have been blessed, though, with a H who really meant it when he said he would do whatever it took to have me forgive and commit to him.<p>I believe in the MB principles and we continue to try to live by them. I also believe in the Retrouvaille principles - and find them perhaps what both of us have required to provide the help needed to get over the stumbling blocks of actual healing. There have been other resources I have found to help me such as "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff", "Love is Letting Go of Fear" (Jerry Jampolsky), "Making Peace with Your Past" (Harold Bloomfield), and various forgiveness works. I find that there is no one answer for me - that a combination of ideas and paths and taking from each what is needed for me is what is working. Thus, I certainly find no "conflict" with MB and Plan A - just enhancements.<p>I feel that for both my H and I, Retrouvaille is providing the tools we both need to heal ourselves - which is #1 - so we can forgive ourselves and offer true forgiveness to each other.<p>Just as a close - my H and I HAD to go through the volitile times and had to work closer to be able to know we WANTED to commit and WANTED to stay in our marriage. Once we came to that stage, then these additional things are now helping provide us with tools and hope.<p>I believe we are never "finished" - either in our own self improvement or in our relationship improvement. To be successful, I believe we have to commit to continual learning, improvement and keeping our minds and hearts open. For us, the demise of our M was that we did not nurture it nor did we nurture each other. We were both takers - and it does feel much better to TRY to be a giver.<p>Best of luck. Keep working at it - it will get better. The dips on the rollercoaster become further apart and less varied. But - a "bit" of a rollercoaster ride is part of real life.<p>Sudz