I love my H deeply, but I made a decision last night...<p>I am done with the emotional tug-of-war...<p>He will either choose me or not...and I took off my wedding ring...his has been off since August...mine will not go back on until he says the words and puts on his own ring...<p>It doesn't mean that I don't believe I am not married, but I kept feeling that wearing the ring was a sign of weakness...a sign that I didn't respect myself.<p>I will not grovel. I will not 'play.' <p>He asked me last night why I kept digging. Why I kept asking him things...telling him things...talking with him (about painful stuff). I told him that the WORST possible thing that I could have ever imagine had occurred between us...I HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO LOSE...so he will hear it all...all my feelings...memories...questions...everything that I have allowed fear to keep inside...but I will use (and did use) an 'adult' voice...respectful and I will not (and did not) get sucked into his anger or guilt...<p>I told him that I needed time to grieve...to get over him...that just to look at him was painful...and it IS NOT FAILURE that hurts me...I loved him the best way I knew how then...<p>If he can't let us learn to love each other in a better way with new tools, then we have to move on...that's the consequences...(and he told me that maybe I should be the one to move...go figure...when I said that I hadn't been able to be the best mom lately).<p>He keeps saying he's efft up his life...but what 'real' consequences has he had? Just his own guilt and pain...otherwise, his life has not changed...my world, on the other hand, has been rocked...tilted...forever altered...<p>Paradigm shift...I love him...but I will not sacrafice my self-esteem and self-respect to keep him...<p>Cali

It's been a long time coming Cali,<p> Maybe this is just the sort of thing he needs. Good luck.<p> jd

I'll go the other direction and say this is more what you need than what your H needs. I still don't think there's anything you can do to help your H right now. Who knows, maybe your continued interaction with him is preventing him from confronting his own internal problems.<p>Paradigm shift...I love him...but I will not sacrafice my self-esteem and self-respect to keep him...<p>I don't think you've done that at all. What you've done so far was painful and difficult, but also something you thought necessary to save your marriage. I disagree with everyone who thinks that kind of behavior should lower your self esteem. The sacrifice you were making is about as noble as it gets. <p>Of course, your H tried to make you feel small and bad because he wanted you to give up in order to justify his claim that it's over. Your dedication and sacrifice embarrassed him. <p>If you think about it, your agreements should protect your self esteem as long as you're doing something you choose to do. You may be finding that this is not your choice anymore.<p>Or, are you losing losing respect for him? You want this marriage to work so much that any loss of respect for your H must reflect on you somehow.<p>You haven't said exactly what you're going to do. It looks like you've pushed away a bit to try to gain some "emotional space". I hope you can use this space to gain some peace before deciding what to do next.<p>Jeffers

just thoughts & prayers

Cali.
I decided on the 1st. part of Oct to go to plan B
because I was tussling with same . I finally decided that I could live with her or with out her I had to seperate it was draining me . I wrote the letter , delivered it , best thing I ever did . felt great 2 days after. but now w/2 kids its tough to keep seperated and the emotional roller coaster is intense but it easier to handel when ws is not around. you will pull through.It does feel good to get control of your life again.
My prayers are with you .

Cali,<p>Sometimes the hardest thing to do is the best thing to do.<p>You've done the best any human being could do. None of us ever get Plan A perfect. You've given H plenty of opportunity to see your changes and he has. That is a good thing. <p>I think you will be surprised how much better you feel about EVERYTHING when you finally do not have to deal with it day in and day out. I always say many good things can come out of Plan B. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt like heck but good things can and do come none the less.<p>Be good to yourself. Indulge yourself. You deserve a break now. It's H's turn to do some work. I have a feeling that once he gets what he's been asking for, he'll finally begin to see that it's not as good as what he's got right in front of him.<p>{{{{{Cali}}}}}

Cali, <p>Just a short note. You will survive and get better. You know about plan b. Don't be afraid to implement. The important thing to is know yourself and your limits. Pushing past that is a dangerous thing for you and your family. Especially when there is only one parent not in the fog. <p>Yes, the burden to carry the family is on your shoulders. Yes, your H is being an _ _ _ and needs to face reality. He has not only made his bed in several places but he has procreated with you in one place with more than one offspring, to run away will imcriminate him whether he accepts or denys this point. It is not a debatable point. He is a father and that happened while he was your H. For many of us the 2 do go together. <p>The WS would like to separate the 2, but that is no more logical than shooting it across the room and inpregnating their spouse. (not the dish stuff) (sorry for the bad analogy). <p>However, that is where he is and for that reason, reasoning with him will not work right now. Talk with Steve or Jennifer. They can help you through this difficult time. Then learn how to get to the acceptance level. It is not as scary as we think. I know you know this but the first step is the hardest. You are going to get real tired of trying to move forward then back again. <p>Again, you are a couple of months behind me and I still remember all that pain. Just be glad you don't have Mrs. Rabbit calling you. LoL!!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Call if you need, I will be home tonight. I may have to make a courier run with H, but my cell/pager will be on. <p>Take Care,
L.

hi, hun. I wish I had some words for you. I know how you feel. I'm there too, except H is already starting the D process. I still have my rings on... I'm not sure why. Guess i'm still wondering if he'll come to his senses. It ain't over till it's over, I guess. <p>I'll be around this weekend. We're here for you.

No words Cali - just my thoughts and prayers and hugs to you.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cali}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>You are strong. You deserve better. You are worth so much. Don't ever forget that.

Hi Cali:<p>I've been kinda staying off the board a little lately because I've been experiencing some things that I need to work though quite similar to what you're going through but I have been following your troubles and I'm sorry that he has brought you to make this decision but I believe that for you it is the best thing to do.<p>There are times when all the words have been said and all the matters have been discussed endlessly to no avail and no resolution is anywhere in sight. And you've taken the disrespect and disregard all you can and still respect yourself...it's time to start protecting yourself again...all the giving and trying has had its effect on you...giving...to someone who's basically treated you like dirt....trying...to get it all back together when he doesn't want it back together (at least not now). You've catered to him and tried to see things from his perspective...but he has been woefully negligent in being able to see your side of all this.<p>Yes, he has "efft" up his life...and when you do something like that there are consequences to be paid...you've given him a chance not to have to pay the severe consequence but he ignored that chance...all that is left now is for him to have what he wants (or what he thinks he wants) and for you to be able to begin the process of separating yourself emotionally from him....if in the meantime he comes to his senses then maybe you'll still be there...maybe not. <p>In a way you could say that this may be necessary for him...to learn through living the consequences what he has given up...for some people that is the only way for them to learn...I know because I feel my WH is similar...he will never learn if I continue to protect him from the consequences....even though I feel it is the hardest thing I have ever done, in a way I feel it is necessary...for him and for me.<p>It's hard but it does get easier with time...and if you could look at it as a necessary evil...a thing that has to done...for everything to get better...either way it turns out.<p>I hope it turns out well for you...I don't know how it will turn out for me.<p>Faye

Dearest Cali:<p>Wearing your wedding ring is not a sign of weakness...<p>...it is a sign of GREAT STRENGTH. It shows that you are truly able to love, to hope, to honor your vows-- even in the depths of great pain.<p>I think you should cherish your ring for what it is: a reminder of the day on which you and your H were joined together as one. <p>As far as PLAN A goes, do not let it kill your spirit. Allow yourself some "down time". If you are emotionally raw, recognize it and allow your frazzled self to recoup.<p>I remember when H and I were struggling along, and we would both get so frazzled and look at each other and say, "do you wanna just give up?" And, we'd actually mull it over for a few minutes, and then look back into each other's eyes and shake our sorry, mixed-up heads "no" and mutter, "not yet anyways." <sigh><p>As far as grieving, unfortunately it seems to be NECESSARY for some of us BSs. I cried freely for months. Sometimes, H would hold me... other times, my crying made H feel guilty and he'd tell me, "Marie! Either stop crying or I'll need to leave the room," to which I always replied, "you do what you need to do for you, because right now I NEED to keep crying."<p>As far as self-respect, continuing to love someone that has hurt you is perhaps the most selfless/noble act on earth. It is, perhaps, also the hardest thing to do-- which is probably why at times it seems to those who attempt to "do the right thing" as though they are demeaning themselves (ie: I must be an idiot to continue to love this person...I'm being taken advantage of, etc.) When you look at your choice as CHOOSING TO LOVE BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLY THE RIGHT THING TO DO....it frees you from thinking in negative terms.<p>Peace to you, your H, and your children. Love, Marie

Cali,<p>I know how you feel right now. I gave up my fight about a week ago. I've been on my own since Monday. It's tough but I'm doing good just a little sad. You are a very strong person and you'll be OK. Keep your head up.<p>BTW, I "lost" (threw it into the ocean) my ring about 6 months ago when I found out A was still on. I regret it now but it doesn't define me. I rarely took it off in 14-1/2 years. Kinda ironic how W was livid when she found out about the ring a couple of months ago.<p>Keep your head up and look for the good that can come out of this. For me I've spent more quality time with my kids and I actually sleep again. <p>who

Hi Cali, I have not posted in a while. I read your post and justed wanted to let you know my thoughts are with you, I am not in a good way right now, but know I am thinking of you and know and feel your pain. Love Sally

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JustPlainCali:
<strong>He keeps saying he's efft up his life...but what 'real' consequences has he had? Just his own guilt and pain...otherwise, his life has not changed...my world, on the other hand, has been rocked...tilted...forever altered...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yes Marsha, his own guilt and pain, and I suspect it tears him apart that he has dissapointed you and the kids. That "he" has changed things in a way that he can never take back. I'm sure he hurts when he sees how much he has hurt you, Marsha. You may not see it in his face or his actions, but I'm sure when he's alone, when it's quiet, and he looks around, he blames himself for changing it all. That, in itself, is a consequence he will have to live with.<p>Marsha, why are things changing for you so drastically now, is it because of the E-card thing? It seems like you're pushing him for some kind of action, is that what you want, Hon?<p>Jo

Cali, you've been through so much. We know how much effort you've put into your M. You are not weak by any means. I wish I had your strength. maybe you do need this maybe I need this to. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired and being on this rollercoaster. We're here for you Cali. I know the decision that you've made is not an easy one. Give it time. I will try and do the same.
Hugs & Prayers,
C

No real advice......
Just support and prayers....I understand..........I took my rings off about two weeks ago and haven't put them back on and don't plan on putting them back on unless my H puts them on for me......
{{{{{{{{Cali}}}}}}}}}
take care of yourself
Dianne

cali, I'm so very sorry for where you're at. I wish there was something to be said or done. It sounds like you've gotten to the point where you're self respect/esteem are in real danger. In that respect, it sounds like it's time to stop. I've read much of your story and I'll second what most of the folks here are saying. Cali, you're not weak, you're one of the strongest people I've had the pleasure to "meet". I know it doesn't help but you have my most profound respect. My thoughts will be with you!

Cali---I forced our separation cause I knew the A was sucking the life out of me and I would definitely not be able to make it any longer. Physical problems were starting to effect my ability to work and go on. WS did not want to leave.....he kind of wanted both worlds, I think.<p>After Ws left, I was overwhelmed with the feeling that OW & WS were now on their honeymoon and he gave away something that belongs to me and she stole what is mine. I was so angry and so full of pain for days. BUT on the other hand, I now have the freedom to think, relax, go wherever I want, and enjoy some of the things I used to enjoy. That is healing me. I am enjoying life again and never thought that would be possible. I still cry almost every day but the pain is lessening. I have no small children and our finances are my biggest concern but I just have to know that they will heal some day too. so far all the bills are being paid----but debt is growing a bit.<p>After 6 weeks WS is depressed and having a real hard time and HE is NOT on any honeymoon. He is no fun and she is realizing it and I cannot image that this will last for them. I know that living with someone who deceptively "loves" and is involved with someone else is not the way to live. I prefer aloneness to watching a spouse have an A right in front of my face. There can't be anything so painful.<p>I believe in Plan A but knowing when all is said and done is the key to letting this thing process out. There is a process going on here.....and it is to either recover or divorce but I know the process in ongoing.<p>((((((hugs and prayers, Cali)))))))) You have what it takes to have a good life and we all need to find our own serenity.<p>TW

Hi Cali just wanted to send a hug ((((((cali)))))
and let you know im about where you are now as well H has been gone 7weeks.
And this last week ive decided he can get on with it im done trying 16 months is a long time to try.
You will start to feel better, i never thought i would but somehow you just do.
Take care
Liz

Cali,<p>Long time coming, I hope you stick to your plan. Plan A cannot drag on for eternity. As all the others have said I too am so sorry for the grief I'm sure you feel, and the pain you are going through.<p>I also want to add a bit of practical advice. just a sense, but there is a very strong legal thing you do by backing down and moving out, that makes you the one abandoning the relationship... a far weaker stance, and it also just about ensures you will not get the house if you want or need it for the children should this reach a divorce. Now cali laws are probably different, take my advice- before you take that step or make that decision call a lawyer and get advice on what best to do to keep yourself and your children as protected and strong as possible through the ordeal.<p>{{{{{{{{{{Lots of hugs!}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>I'm available for talking too.<p>NY