OMG I don't know what to do things were going so well for H and I. I talked to him earlier and he said he'd call me later. Well I tried calling and he wasn't answering D called no answer got voice mail. We had to run out to the store so I decided to drive by his apartment and the OW his so called friend car from work was there. I left the girls in the car and walked up the steps and by then the door was opening and they were standing there. She didn't even say a work to me not Hi cybil I'm so and so and we are just friends nothing. I screamed this is f****** cute and we are done!! I ran down the stairs shaking and go in my car driving and crying I was hysterical.H didn't even try to follow me. I can't believe it. Then I got home and called her house to talk to her H. Of course I got the machine so i left a message saying who I was and that I was her lovers wife and I wanted to talk to her H. I called again and she answered saying that her H was there but didn't want to talk to me and that she was pressing charges against me. I told her to go ahead then it would all come out.
My H called me and I was hysterical on the phone. He said that she just dropped by to give him something from work. He is f****** protecting her. I am so hurt! I can't believe I let him get to me again by saying the crap he said last night. He wants to start dating me again and he's seriously thinking about coming home. He said he was thinking about calling my counselor. I am so hurt!! He will never admit to an A. He keeps telling me that they are just friends! You don't leave your family for 7mos. for a friendship. I want to hurt her. I want her to feel the pain I've been through. What do I do? I hope she does have me arrested. At least that way I will be able to confront her H. I even ask my H to come over and call her on the phone and the 4 of us would talk and he said I'm not getting involved in that. You shouln't have called her house. I am such a fool. I loved him and he took my love, trust, faith in him and threw it all away. I told him to go get an atty. If he wants to see the kids. My middle D is so upset with him. I feel the same devastation as when I first found out he was talking to her on his cell phone. He will never admit to anything. He continues to say that he is not having an A or a fling or whatever I want to call it. She is just his friend. Then why would she park her car in the back where no one would see her. I feel like my heart has been ripped out again. When will this end?

Cybil,
As I read your post, my heart was breaking....I just don't understand how they think they can tell us anything and we will believe it. I am coming to the conclusion that they are so out of touch with reality that they convince themselves that we will believe anything because we so desperately want our relationships to survive. How can she press charges against you...what did you do? You said a curse word to your H and that's it.....what does she have to press charges against you with? I guess she thinks because you called her house looking to speak to her H that that is harrassment????
My advice, think long and hard....just like you said.....do you move out away from your family for 7 months for a "friendship"? I am in the same almost identical boat you are in.....OW is coworker....endless hours on cell phone...H telling me "just friends" same lies....guess what he did today? He moved out into an apartment...he rented it a week ago and is just now moving out.....this sounds just like what I think will happen to me...I will be faced with reality of PA with OW....I give him a week and I bet I can find OW at his apartment. I can't believe your H won't even support you through this....telling you he wasn't going to get involved...kinda like it's between you and her!! same s*** my H told me when I called his OW and asked her if she still had her dildo stuck up her Pu****? like she had indicated to him on chat room conversation I copied from internet.....couldn't believe he wouldn't keep her from doing anything to me....(he also told me that if I called her again that she would have me arrested....) and he wouldn't be able to do anything about it ....he wouldn't intervine on my behalf....
Anyway, so much for my problems......
I pray God's peace will comfort you tonight. I to ask, when will it end....I guess we have to take control of what is going on and how much of this type of hurt, betrayal we can stand....My heart breaks for you!!! I know my turn is coming...probably sooner than later....
{{{{{{{{cybil}}}}}}}}} I am so sorry.......
I wish I had some sound advice for you...the only thing I can suggest is to just give it to God....know Cybil that all things work for the good of those who love him......there has to be some good somewhere in these terrible situations we are all in....God is in control and that's what I have to keep telling myself when something "new" happens or the next shoe falls and we have to deal with something else...If your relationship is to survive than this is just another step towards it....maybe God is showing H just how damaging this really is to his relationship with you and his children and he will wake up ready to give it up and recommit to his family...I know this probably isn't helping much.....I wish I knew what to say........
Dianne

I am so sorry this happened to you Cybil. It is so very painful.<p>I know what the hurt and betrayal and how horrible it feels. <p>Please try to calm down. Take some deep breaths and try to relax. Your health is at stake here. Don't let him destroy that too.<p>Just remember that we have no control over anyone but ourselves. You can decide how to react to this. It isn't about you...it is about him. But you need to take of you.<p>I wish we could do more than just write. Know that you are in my thoughts. Take care of yourself...you are so worthy of love and affection. YOu deserve it. Lots of hugs{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS CYBIL}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Pat

faith4us thanks so much for your kind words. This is just unbelievably painful. now my mind is racing with thpughts like does she have a key to his apartment? I know her H was not there when I called then my H calls and says he just got off the phone with her H. yeah right! What a loser! never ever diod I think my H would do this to me. I know I absolutely know that I have to move on but it is soooo hard. especially the S*** he said to me last night. I'm seriously thinking about coming home. Calling my counselor to talk. Then he tries to throw it back on me like I'm the one in the wrong. I even went out and rented a movie I thought he would like. I am such a fool! I pray that God gives me the strength to move on and away from this situation. I really need to do this. I'm praying for you to. Do these Op have no morals? Does anyone have any morals anymore. The pain hurts so bad I can't bare it any longer. My children have suffered through enough. They don't deserve this and neither do I. I deserve to be truly loved and appreciated. I hope that his guilt eats him up inside. She claims that she is pressing charges for me calling her house and the message that I left on her machine. Let her. I truly hope that she does. She has helped turn my H into a liar and a cheat. he would have never thought of doiing some of the things he did without her influencing him. I know this for a fact b/c I took care of everything for him. As of yesterday I called the Dr. for him made an appt. and was stupid enough to go get the referral for him. What a fool I've been. I guess I've truly had to learn the hard way!

MNM thank you for your reply. I know some how some way I will get through this. I am just so mad I want to ruin her life. Her H has no clue that any of this is going on. I can't believe that he allowed her into his apartment. He's always telling me how messy it is. Get this he ask me if I wanted to come over and check his sheets!!! What a freakin jerk! He even offered to show me his cell bill. Why would he call her when she comes over and they both have Nextels (2 way radio) for work. I just feel so consumed again like I did a few months ago. I was so looking forward to this weekend b/c we weere going out tomorrow night. I want him to suffer feel the pain I've felt. Maybe he can spend the holidays w/her and her H. I have so much anger and hate inside me right now and I know that's not good. I just want them both to hurt. I know that God is with me. Tonight when I drove there I was praying when I turned the corner please God let him be there. I had no idea that I would find her there as well.

Dear cybil,<p>I read your post and felt I had to respond although we have not posted to each other before.
I am SO sorry for the pain that your family is experiencing. It is pretty obvious that your H is indeed having an affair. Isn't it unbelievable how a WS can deceive himself so completely that he denies what is so easy for everyone else to see. It would be pathetic if it wasn't so sad! My DIL is a WS, and it is incredible the lies and deception she has resorted to to see her OM. I know how my S has suffered, and my heart goes out to you and your girls. {{{cybil}}}<p>I'm afraid that you are still in for a long struggle before all this is resolved. Try not to despair. H is not even close to finding his way out of his foggy thinking. From others' stories, there is reason to keep hoping that the A will play itself out, and he will realize what a terrible mistake he has made. But boy is it hard to fight the crushed feeling the BS has.<p>As for OW filing charges, you haven't done anything to file on. What? A phone call? One phone call isn't harrassment. However, I wonder if contacting OH will help your cause.<p>I worry about the effect this is having on your girls. Does your H not have a clue how his behavior is affecting them? It is so sad the damage a WS's self-centered behavior has on the children.<p>Please know that your H's behavior is not an indictment of you. It is an indication of a great weakness in him. You do not deserve this. He is being so disrespectful and cruel and selfish. I know that knowing this doesn't stop the agony you feel, but try to focus on the fact that this is evidence of HIS shortcomings. He has made a huge mistake, but isn't ready to accept the truth of what he has done.<p>Have you considered a no contact letter and plan B? I'm concerned that contact with H and/or OW is taking too great a toll on you. This is so damaging to your self-esteem right now.<p>Take care, Estes

cybil,<p>YOU ARE NOT A FOOL! Is it foolish to believe in someone you love? Is it foolish to try to rebuild a marriage? Is it foolish to maintain a relationship so your girls will have their dad around? Is it foolish to sacrifice your own feelings for the good of your family? Is it foolish to hope that your H is telling you the truth? Of course not! It is a sign of commitment and love. Please don't be so hard on yourself.<p>Now, is a person who moves out on his family to have an affair a fool? Is a person who jeopardizes the emotional health of his children to meet his selfish desires a fool? Is a man who is so weak that he commits a sin a fool? Is a woman who lies to her husband and has an affair with a married man a fool? Is a woman who expects you to believe that she is dropping off work at your H's place a fool? Certainly.<p>Let's place the responsibility for foolishness where it belongs in situations like this. And it's definitely not on you, my son, or other trusting BS.<p>{{{cybil}}}<p>Estes

You are so right Estes49.....Cybil read his last response to you very closely....He is sooooo right! Thanks Estes49 for helping us all with this post.
Dianne

Dear friend,<p>I empathize and truly understand the unspeakable horror you are going through. Like you, he moved out. However, I accidentally discovered his affair in Jan. 01', the day before my and his family was going on a week long cruise together. Needless to say, he didn't go. Moved away, for his job, away from all of my family, friends and support. Thought that it all would be a new start and whammo, the OW surfaces and just keeps on doing it, although she lives several states away. Sounds like you know her? Luckily, I did not have the dastardly privilege of knowing this horribly sick woman before her A w/my H. Whatever you do will be magnified. Know this because of any attempts to contact her (usually on her phone, she actually was too chicken to pick it up and let her vmail answer) was quickly responded by my H. Actually went out of his way to defend her. Defend her? What about the nights (and there's so many of them) that his little boy screams for him, had stopped potty training altogether (counselor said that is from stress--a normal reaction). No, he is in the fog. Just like mine. Thick. <p>So what to do? If you're like me, you probably are a muck of a mess. Totally lost it a month ago. My H had son for 2 nights and the utter lonliness was almost too much to bear. Been a Christian since second grade, but had fallen some since college. Though I was too cool to depend totally on an unseen force like God. That weekend, fell on my knees and broke. Was my first step toward forgiveness. Yes, they are having A's, but we must take our responsibility for what we've done wrong, work on US, and give the rest over to God. <p>Counseling is really helping me see how problems in my own life actually could have pushed him away. My counselor is focusing on Me and (prayerfully) when he decides to come, will then begin working on the couple's stuff. So far, he's done no marriage counseling w/me. Says little hope from him.<p>Great book is Love Must Be Tough, by Dobson. It is so extremely hard to let go. I try, and try, and also do plan A. I show him all the love that is in my soul and have let him understand that I am here when he needs to work on this marriage and I am not going to take the easy way out. Ironically, I filed for D on Sept. 11 at 9:00 am. God,through a good friend, convinced me that I was jumping the gun, knew I really and I do with all of my heart love him, and must not desert him because there is a terrible hole somewhere in his soul. Stopped all legal action and am prayerfully moving day by day toward reconciliation. He still talks to and saw OW just 2 weeks ago. You hurt, all hurts, you love your kids, but cannot protect them from this hell.<p>So, what do you do about this abnoxious OW who is probably so deeply in denial and fog like your H? First of all, take this to God and I mean on your knees. I am praying for you and your husband and family. You need to know that the greatest power in the universe is in your family's corner. Just ask Him for help. He's up 24/7. Take charge of you. I joined a gym. Although not very spiritual of me, I loved the part of my step class where we incorporate kickboxing. I invision her kissing the dirt with just one blow from me. Gotta get it out. It will infect you like a poison. Problem is with him, with her. Work on you. I am trying to do just that and my friend, will struggle with you. Do something for you. Show him you are still ok with who you are--get in shape, get a new look or something to just pump you up emotionally. They are the ones with the truly bad self esteem. I was emotionally and physically abused as a child but does that keep me now from seeing a counselor? Does that freeze me up and keep me from fighting for my marriage? No. Keep on going. You can do it. <p>You know what they're doing. How much worse can it get? Very little. After I took just so much, I sent the OW a very long, yet prayerful email and told her about how my H & I had been recently intimate, that she was ruining our lives, and that God could help her. She was so stunned that she actually phoned me crying. I spoke with this person and actually tried to lead her to the Lord. She cried and begged my forgiveness and I asked her to forgive me for my calling her names. Said she was so sorry and would stop trying to see my H. Five days later, three states later, he was spending the night at her home. You are not responsible for her soul. I can work toward someday forgiving this wretched person, but want you to learn a lesson.<p>Leave her alone. She's all about nothing but lies and her own selfish wants and needs. Her true colors will probably soon be seen. Understand her for what she is. Liar. Just a pathetic liar. Let her dig her own relationship grave, don't offer to help hold the shovel for her. My first counselor (old one) said that. Know this, that you must keep your faith strong. Don't lose faith because of what the A has done to you, what your H has done to you, what the OW has done to you, realize that you have an opportunity to show the world and your H just what you are made of. <p>Show him that you will not play their sick game anymore. That you're not a pawn. You will get better--even if it means seeing a counselor or doctor by yourself. Even if it means going to church with just you and your kids. Get out of the game. That's all it is. She thinks she will win, but will lose her soul, her self respect, her dignity, and her worth in the process.<p>Take the rockiest road, my friend. Love. Love him through this. Even if it means from a distance. Just don't play their game. Simply love him the best way you can, love your kids, and put God in the driver's seat. Think of it this way, if your H is defensive and protects the OW, take away the ammo. Don't do anything. Just love and plan A him. She will reveal her true self. When you complain, yell, confront, just like I did, you're doing nothing productive except for your own anger and ego. When you lose those and realize that real love, God's love, is there for you, you don't want to play their game anymore. I pray God will open your H's heart. <p>I will pray and be a spiritual warrior for you. <p>"Therefore, put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes you may be able to stand; and after having done everything, to stand."

Not peachy thank you thank you from the bottom of my heart. Yes I do pray and I have given it over to God. I pray constantly for strength, for courage. For my H even though what he is doing is wrong because one day he will have to answer for the sins he has commited not me.<p>Until then I can't do this any more. I wait for him to call and tell me how wrong he was and how much he truly loves me and wants to make our M work. I have no hope left for that. I know that by me consuming myself with trying to inflict pain on her and her M doesn't make me a good person either. I have continued to do things for myself. I was going to the gym for awhile. I have alot of great supportive friends and family. I go out with my girlfriends when I have the opportunity and my kids are involved in sports. I have lost nearly 25lbs on the infidelity diet. I am actually too thin. I am wearing size 5 when i was wearing a size 8 or 10. <p>I know I will be okay. I go to counseling every week by myself. When we first separated H went to 2 sessions and then we found a new counselor and we were going individually H went once and bailed I've been going for me. I just continue to go up and down on this rollercoaster ride. I hate it. I hate what my life had become. I know that only I can make it better. Thank you for your prayers and your concern.
Hugs and Prayers to you,
C

Cybil,<p>I would take Not Peachy's advise very seriously. I did the same thing you are doing. H has given the OW up now and we are working on our relationship. Things are nowhere near what they were around here, but they are improving day by day. I remember one specific thing my H said to me one night after a three way call with him, OW, and myself. "Why would I choose someone who sounds like a raving lunatic over someone who is calm." Yes I was the raving lunatic. I (just as you) had every right to be upset and OW had none. She couldn't very well get mad at yell at H for being intimate with his own wife, could she? I had to learn to bite my tongue really hard. She never called me and it always caused trouble when I called her--so I was the bad guy.<p>I know this is the hardest thing to do. I've literally had to find some excuse to go to the store (my H never left home) because I was ready to explode. I would get in the car, turn the radio up as loud as possible, and drive like a "raving lunatic" to the store at one in the morning just so I would seem to be the calm one. It also got to him when I would calmly ask if he needed something while I was gone and then just calmly leave. I waited until I was out of site of the house before gunning the engine--LOL! Seriously though, it helped.<p>I don't know if this applies in your case, but it did in mine. I had to show that I could live without him and be happy--even if at times I was faking it. Like everyone else has said, get a new haircut, exercise, something. For me, it was throwing myself into work. It has paid off at work and I'm getting opportunities others I work with are being passed up for. Regardless of what was going on at home, I could manage to walk in with a smile and say *Boss's name* said this today or I got to do this today. Find something else to focus on for a while. Many people will tell you to focus on your children and I agree that children need your attention, but you also have to find something to focus on that is YOU and for you only. The biggest problem I had was seeing myself as someone besides H's wife and children's mother. I had to begin to see myself as ME. My H started to notice that I wasn't so clingy and worried about him before we started making any type of progress at all. I think he thought as long as he stuck around I would be here--it started dawning on him that she has a life beyond me and she is enjoying it without me right now.<p>Sorry this was so long-just meant to come in and agree with Not so Peachy. LOL!! If you ever need to talk, give me a yell.

Thanks dumplin. I've made my decision. I can no longer Plan A I'm moving on to Plan B and I know it will be the hardest thing to do. I wish I could just take the kids and get away for awhile. That's not possible right now. The only thing I am sure of is I have to stay away from him. He doesn't take me seriously. He wants his cake and ice cream too and he can't have both. I thought we were headed for recovery boy did I get shocked. Thanks dumplin. I'm gettin tired so I think I will try and get some sleep. I will update you all tomorrrow. Thank you everyone for your support your prayers and your concern.
Good Night.

First, I am so sorry for your pain...we have all been there.
Just a thought...maybe he is trying to make it look like it's not a PA so as to still look like a "good" guy and not be D for adultery, and lose the respect of his family, children and friends. A La Tom Cruise...<p>Two married people have alot to lose,if caught. If they get together after you have given it a "try", well, then you all tried and "it just didn't work out".<p>I would try to let her H know, somehow,when you are calm. How would be for you to figure out...but it is so unfair for him to be left out of the equation and honestly, why does she get off without having to face him with what she's done? He has the right to protect himself ,as well as we all do. AND If I were HE, I would sure want to know what was happening to my life, he must be feeling like he's crazy because he must know SOMETHING is up. It isn't a hurtful act,IMHO.<p>My prayers are with you and your family...

Good morning all. I'm okay. I didn't sleep very well. I am still overwhelmed about the events of last night. How could he do this to me and still lie about it not have the guts to tell me the truth after he was caught red handed. No I did not see them kissing or anything but she was there in his apartment. A married woman should not be at another mans house friend or no friend without her husband. It's wrong wrong wrong!! Am I wrong in feeling this way? I am stressing over all this big time. H hasn't called today thought he would by now. Maybe he's afarid waiting to see what my next move will be. I will not do anything stupid or illegal to get myself in trouble but I will try and get in touch w/her H so that he knows what's going on. He deserves to know that his wife is involved with a married man. I am crushed once again. I need to get over this.
C

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by cybil:
<strong>Thanks dumplin. I've made my decision. I can no longer Plan A I'm moving on to Plan B and I know it will be the hardest thing to do.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>cybil,<p>I think that is the best idea and I really do admire your resolve and ability to think clearly in such an emotionally hot situation. It also occurred to me that the OW is no doubt shaking in her boots right now with fear at the prospect that you intend to notify her H. And I do think that you should persist in contacting him. That will blow the lid off the affair and may bring it to a quick end.<p>Although it surely doesn't feel good right now, I think it is probably a Godsend that you stumbled upon the truth before he moved in and really made your life hell. Maybe this way, you at least have a chance of working things out from an INFORMED position rather than not knowing - but FEELING - that he was still seeing the OW.

Hi Cybil,<p>{{hugs}} Sorry you are in such a state of pain and suffering right now. Before you let your emotions jump you into another plan, step back and think. <p>1. You are in shock from what you saw.
2. Now make sure you get the right picture.
3. Yes, it is not proper for a married woman to
in an apt with a married man. Even a single
woman in the same position.
4. Now, you are angry and not really available to
accept any reason from your H right now right?
5. #4 is dangerous. If your H has a reason and he
is truly trying and you pass him up because of
your anger, this may be a bad thing.
6. Think with a clear mind and a calm heart.
7. There is nothing wrong with calmly letting your
H know how you have been hurt, devasted by
what you learned.
8. You must be equally willing to hear him out.
9. If he is offering suggestions, you need to give
him a fair chance just asif the tables were
turned.
10. Once you have done all of the above and your H
turns back into a full blow WS and well you
you the profile of a WS, then you should
consider plan B. <p>Otherwise, IMHO you could lose whatever progress you made. Here let me give you a recent example. <p>Even though I just posted that we seemed to be doing ok, there were 5 messages on H's work phone last night. H did not answer any of them but guess who they were from!! [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Ok, I asked H to let me listen to those messages. I asked if there has been any contact since that last 'special' voicemail that was sent 2 weeks ago (h is amazed how well my memory works on the date and times of this stuff....hhmmph...:grin [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . <p>At first his reaction was "is that an order". That mad me angry. I had asked and said please. hm..... he was sleeping and then had a business call come in and had to rush to work. I have not heard those messages yet but I did say that I would like to hear what is being sent because 'unless he has something to hide', I don't see a problem with it. His response was that 'they broke up and he needs to move on'. Well, needless to say that was only semi-reassuring at best, but due to the circumstances I had to accept that point. Am I over it yet? By no means!! <p>We will be discussing this further hopefully later today when he returns from work, gets a chance to rest and then we can face the apparent 'conflict'. Remember my H's normal tendency is being a conflict avoider so I need to tread lightly. That is a hard thing for this former 'waffle stomper' to do. Any of you remember the 'ol waffle stomper shoes' from the 70's? [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take Care,
L.

cybil,<p>hugs & prayers to you.<p>listen to Orchid, she is one very wise lady.<p>don't do anything you will regret later,<p>remember try & stay clam around your children, they don't need to know the details, no matter thier age, I know this much to my shame, I believe I shared to much with my OS & leaned on him to much for support, and now he is very troubled young man, don't do this to your children<p>[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: sing ]</p>

Hi Cybil:<p>I hope you are feeling somewhat better today...and I genuinely understand how bad you are hurting. It must seem like D-day all over again (if there was an actual D-day...since your WH appears to be maintaining his lie about the whole affair).<p>Geez...how many times I've done what you did last night...striking out in my anger...in my pain...and still do at times. But please let me urge you not to over-react to your own detriment. <p>I hate to say that I agree with SNL about much but he is right that we BS tend to ignore the fact that our WH did or do have a relationship with someone else....as bad as that hurts....and that relationship is important to them (sometimes it seems more then then their family) and they are trying to balance all elements of their lives so as to not inflict any more pain then is necessary.<p>Yes, this encounter hurt...seeing OW with WH always is difficult...and was especially difficult because he had been expounding to you how "much he wants to come home" just the night before. <p>You have a choice to make...yes, you can decide to go on to Plan B...but I think you might be making a mistake...regardless of what his reason...last night he was attempting to move back in your direction. Are you prepared to push him away when you don't really know the status of his relationship with OW? You are just assuming that he is trying to string both of you along...an assumption being made out of pain and anger. <p>Give yourself some time...give him the benefit of the doubt...the only thing you really have to lose is a marriage...anything else can be regained in time. And even if the worse is true...hasn't MB taught us that the fog in an A can be heavy...but it usually lifts in time.
If we wrote off our WS for everytime they hurt us...they would be gone a long time ago, huh? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I just think the signs of progress in your marriage are there...don't let this take you back to the start.<p>Faye

I really feel for you! my h's OW could do no wrong. When she would call here for him(he was not living here but she would know he was here) he would go out on his cell phone in the car and talk to her. Then he would get mad at ME for getting upset. If she called me it was no big deal, but if I called her I was the trouble maker!! He's home now, but i have caught him talking to her through his voice mail. I get days where I feel so strong and am not gonna put up with it anymore, then when it comes down to it-us fighting or whatever- I panick and freak about the thought of him leaving. This is so hard but regardless of what happens WE ALL WILL BE ALRIGHT. Hang in there and hopefully your h will see the light. My h started out being friends with OW- they both drive semi- his married brother was actually after her!!- and he said there were no intentions for it to go anywhere. people are just asking for trouble with that kind of friendship!