WS was here on Sun night to pick up mail and go over finances. He is forgeting to pay bills cause he is depressed and was not feeling well. He was gonna go pick up a pizza and decided to go home instead. He insisted on coming on Thurs with pizza and I said---no problem, you don't have to bring me pizza (pizza is my fav) He said, "I want to" so I felt I would comply. He came Thurs and we talked about alot. He is depressed and claims he wants to come home but does not know how to end things with OW. He does not know how to work on us or make amends to all the family/friends he has hurt. He cried often. The pain is so deep and the confusion so confusing. He also talked bout getting to the place of being willing. He is not there yet. He said he may need to talk to someone about his depression which is a miracle in itself. BUT all this may be talk and I know it. Someone here reminded that you can see and believe progress when there is action. <p>Then one of the saddest things in the world happened, he said "I want my life back" and put his head in his hands and cried. Being the wonderful codependent that I am, wanted to help but for the first time in my life I realize my powerlessness and that is a GREAT place for me to be.<p>I am still trying to examine and find out what my feelings are for WS.....do I love him or do I just want security and someone to live with? It is hard to know what marital love is when you have only been the one trying to have a marriage.<p>I do feel that I am growing and realize that I will change if I show up (make myself available to change) and am willing to change. I do not have to force change or dig at myself to change. Good to learn. I can morbidly introspect at times. <p>The holidays are coming and our son who lives in Japan is coming home for Christmas. That will add to WS depression and I have to hold firm that he is not a part of this family right now cause he has made choices that keep him from family life so I am trying to keep aware of what is comfortable for my son who has not been home for a year. I want his time home to be special for him not FULL of our problems and uncomfortable situations.<p>Anyone have thoughts about WS depressions and what does this mean? Will he get over it and then go on with his NEW life? Does he just have to adjust to life without us and will he ever?<p>TW

Dear TW, <p>Isn't it sad what people do to themselves sometime? My DIL is a WS. She is trying to break off with OP and is an absolute emotional wreck. She is deeply depressed and has no emotional reserves whatsoever. She cries all the time. She can't cope with toddler son's antics. I feel really bad for her. Actually, I am fearful for her. I think she is just a breath away from a breakdown.<p>Yes, I think that you both can work through this. I just don't know how long it will take. How much patience do you have? My S is getting tired of her not being able to make progress, but I seriously believe that she is totally incapable of making sound decisions right now. Like your H. When the WS is so depressed, I think that the BS will make things worse by pushing, because depressed WS are very fragile emotionally. The WS may feel trapped and run as a matter of self-preservation. Or they might make an irreversable decision that is not on the best interest of the marriage. My S is trying to play the role of a helper in her emotional recovery, but he loses patience a lot. (She moved to another state.)<p>Seems to me that you are doing the right thing to protect your family. Isn't it hard? My son has not implemented plan B, but it is a possibility. He too is wondering if he actually wants a life with her anymore. <p>Stick with your boundaries. It sounds like you are doing amazingly well. No LBs when he is around. But reinforce that the situation is his doing, and he has to fix it. BTW, is he on antidepressants? He really needs to be. I think that there is a very strong possibility that he will want to come home when his mental state is better. Right now he isn't thinking straight and in fact, may not be able to do so. And he did this to himself! SAD>>><p>Estes<p>[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Anyone have thoughts about WS depressions and what does this mean? Will he get over it and then go on with his NEW life? Does he just have to adjust to life without us and will he ever?
TW<hr></blockquote><p>TW,
First off, I think it's a good place to find WS. I think it's the best sign of fog lifting. I wish I knew for sure, but since I am NOT WS, I don't know!! Maybe one of them will post to your thread and answer for us.<p>In the meantime, I, too, have questions about this very thing. I saw my WH for the first time in 5 months last week. On the phone, he "sounds" fine. He says things that make me think his life is *wonderful.* Like making plans with his son for a trip to Vegas at the end of Billiards season (nothing said about OW going). He says he and son have plans to build a new truck - complete with sponsors - for shows, etc. Nothing said about OW. See? It sounds like he's having a grand time of a life, WITHOUT her!! BUT in her (and son's) town, NOT OURS, so that leaves ME out, too. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Then, when we talked a few times on the phone it's very obvious from his attitude about "life" in general, and most of the people around him in particular (mostly his co-workers - he HATES his job - but talking about his family, too) that he's VERY unhappy, and depressed. But he has his family around him now (something he blames ME for not having before the A). He looks like SH%@ .... and admitted that he cries all the time (although HE says it's cause of the WTC disaster).<p>My WH does NOT do depression well. He has tried suicide before (before I knew him - when HE was the BS!!! You'd think he KNOWS how this feels to me). I am very worried about his depression. I KNOW God is working with him, but it's very difficult for me NOT to "do" anything for him.....and I don't even know what I would do anyway! Me being around him only reinforces his depression, since *I'm* part of why he's depressed! Thinking about what he did "to me" - to our life.<p>I'm very worried about him at this point, and dont' know how to "let it play out" without feeling like he's almost ready to "blow." Not a good place for him to be...and I'm starting to lose my indifferent attitude (hmmm, maybe "indifferent" is the wrong word? Maybe I mean ability to stay "detached").<p>HOW can I help him without really DOING anything "for" him, since that would only make him codependent ON ME ultimately (and may not even be welcomed, if he's not ready to work on our M yet)? I DO pray for him....I feel that is the best thing I can do. But as was mentioned in another thread I was reading, I'm a "fixer" - I want it fixed, and I want it fixed NOW! HE is the classic "conflict-avoidance personality."<p>This problem has me down this week-end, and I'm starting to "lose" my perspective, too.<p>Anyways, thanks for listening.
Lupo<p>[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: lupolady ]</p>

Estes-- I bet it is so painful to see your child go through this. My married son had a friend who is a girl and I think he was playing with fire til his Dad did the very thing he might have been heading towards. I was praying for my son nonstop while I was struggling majorly in my own marriage. I felt like I had double barrels shooting at me. We are a world of such needy people and we don't even know what we need half of the time. The depression is part of the process of coming out of the fog. I do not think there is much we can do with a person who is depressed unless they are willing to take steps to heal and grow. How long has your son been holding on? Are they separated? <p>Lupo---it is amazing how the human heart is so full of denial. BS cannot always see what they are doing and WS are all fogged up. Psalm 32 really was refreshing to me to read this week. Commentators think that David wrote this Psalm after his A with Bathsheba. Asking God for forgiveness is delayed by some. My devotional asks, "Why do we delay repentance? Embrassment, failure, shame, pride, the superstitious hope that in time guilt will fade like a stain in the carpet. OR perhaps for darker reaons: when one is sick there may be a spiritual guilt involved, a person's secret aquiescence in sinful behavior which dominates to such an extent that he/she cannot break free, but neither does he/she wish to." <p>My H sounds is like yours...he does not do conflict. He escapes to all his little addictions and never is able to look at himself. This is the first time he has ever looked inward at all so I am hoping it will be his journey to self discovery. Maybe, Maybe not. <p>You cannot help your H.....he has to do it himself. We can only act in love and pray that God will remove barriers that keep them from knowing forgiveness.<p>TW

Hello TW, Lupo:<p>So you both think that the depression in the WS is possibly them coming out of the fog? I do know that it is part of the withdrawal from OP.
Maybe this is just an inevitable stage in healing IF handled properly.<p>How to handle it properly? I suspect that what the WS (who wants to save her marriage) wants is for the BS to accept her is a friendship relationship for the time being until she has time to heal her emotional turmoil. Then, she will have the emotional strength to start rebuilding the feelings of intimacy with BS.<p>This is a very risky stage because the BS wants to hurry to get things back to normal. From what I have read, however, this healing of the WS may take a year or more. If the BS loses patience or LBs or loses love for the WS during this healing period, the chance of recovery is small. I pray that my S continues to be patient.<p>DIL started A in March 2001. Filed for divorce in April (didn't even tell S who got surprise subpoena). Moved with child to OM's state in May.
Son accidentally discovered A in June on a visit to see his little boy, a complete shock. So they have been on the roller coaster for almost 8 months. Incidentally, until I told S about Marriage Builders, he felt his only option was to divorce DIL. Now he knows there is hope to save their M. He plans to move to her new state in December as that appears to be his only option. <p>Lupo, it's tough, isn't it - if not impossible - to rebuild a marriage long distance. Do you think it is possible for WS to give up the OP who is in the same town as them while the BS is in another town, or a different state? My DIL makes things seem fine on the outside, like your H, but is in turmoil on the inside.<p>TW, I like the tone of your posts, your spirituality. I think we are from the same age bracket, 50-something, grown kids. I'm a 20-years veteran teacher. <p>Estes

Estes---<p>How to handle it properly? I suspect that what the WS (who wants to save her marriage) wants is for the BS to accept her is a friendship relationship for the time being until she has time to heal her emotional turmoil. <p>The depression my WS is in now requires nothing on my part just kindness cause we are separated. I guess the way you handle depression in WS when they come back is just do not expect anything and live in each day. The only thing I would expect from WS if he came back was a willingness to look at himself and get help for his issues and that there would be no contact with OW. I truly do not know what it would take to rebuild but it would be hard BUT I do not think divorce is easy either. There is major healing and work needed there, too, to keep from being lonely, cynical and bitter. I know so many divorced people who are sooooo bitter. Yuk---that is no way to live.<p>Yes---I am certainly 50-something and my H has plunged me into a mid life crisis. I was not in one before the A happened. I am noticing my age for the first time in my life probably cause OW is 26.<p>Does your S post on here? He should....if so, what is his name. Try not to figure out his life...let him and DIL do it. Just learn how you can support your S through this.<p>I am a Spirit-born Christian and I know that God is powerful and I talk to Him uncessingly about all areas of my life especially the A which I could NOT handle without His help. He is so wise and gives me guidance and understanding which proves to be beneficial. I never thought I would be to this point in my healing right now but I am ready to go forward and leave behind the pain and all the craziness of my life with or without my H.<p>Sorry for your pain----our children are our most valuable treasures. I could not bear to watch my sons go through any of this kind of crap. <p>TW

TW,<p>It must be so awful, what you are having to endure. One helpful thing I have learned here is that the A is not about the BS. It is all about the WS and his problems. Unfortunately, the pain IS definitely the BS's problem.<p>My S has posted a couple of times but decided to spend his time reading books like Surviving an Affair rather than post. He does read here sometimes, however. He strongly believes in the MB principles. He and DIL attended the MB weekend in Dallas in September. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] OM called her there!!! Can you believe it? [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
Sadly, I'm sure you can.<p>TW, you might be interested in Tomstocks's thread, Character and Morals in this forum.<p>Right now, you can only make changes in you. You can be a strong independent person. Work on that. Rely on your faith. Pray that your H comes to his senses. I believe that God will heal our pain. The outcome might not be what we have in mind, but He will sustain us, and we will be stronger.<p>Faithfully, Estes<p>[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>