Things took an even more severe turn to the surreal last night&#8230; We got a LD phone call and the person hung up as soon as I answered. I had a suspicion who it was, *69 confirmed that suspicion. I called back and got no answer, he called back in a few minutes and after verbally circling each other for a few minutes, actually talked. The thought that I would be talking calmly to a man that W had slept with had never crossed my mind. Perhaps that is an indication that I have started to truly internalize that I have zero control over anyone&#8217;s actions but my own. He had been drinking and was obviously upset, he sounded near to tears at several points. Apparently he does truly love her, in the words W used on me last time I told her I loved her, I guess that makes for two poor men. What are we to do? All three of us hurting what a f****d up situation&#8230; I actually feel empathy for him, which I find quite surprising. Something I&#8217;ll surely have to analyze at length at a later date. I asked him quite sincerely several times if he was all right; apparently, he&#8217;s no more all right than I. He says he feels I&#8217;m &#8220;winning&#8221; apparently W has severely limited contact with him over the last few weeks. He said &#8220;There must still be something there because she&#8217;s not talking to me as much.&#8221; He also said &#8220;perhaps I was just a means to get rid of you and I&#8217;ll be gone too a month after you end it, who knows.&#8221; His confusion and self-doubt is as deep and troubling as my own. So we wait&#8230; both of us. He also said that he would do his best to back off and give us a chance to work things out. I do believe he will do that, I also believe that if he thought he had a real chance at a relationship with her that he wouldn&#8217;t. I could be wrong though&#8230; He&#8217;s a better judge of his own position than I, he knows the nature of the contacts that they have made, and I have no idea. What he doesn&#8217;t know (nor I for that matter) is if it makes any difference to our situation. I have no idea. Perhaps she will opt for both of us to go away, some days I see that happening, at least for a while. I would be lying if I said I wasn&#8217;t encouraged by his words. It changes nothing, it&#8217;s still one day at a time and it&#8217;s still time and patience that will tell the tale when all is done. I still take encouragement from the fact that she&#8217;s not talking to him as often. Perhaps there is a real hope for us, I dare not begin to believe that right now. The fall would be too great if I actually started to believe that we will make it through. I know we can and I know we could be very happy. I dare not begin to believe that W sees this. <p>I suppose I question if this is an uncommon situation? We were actually quite good friends for a while and in many ways I do respect him still. hard to say huh?

Sofar2go,<p>I would never want to speak to my husband's OW, but if I did I think I would want to hear the things that you heard. I pray the my H's OW would back off!! Keep your chin up. God can perform miracles in marriages. I keep hoping to hear of more and more marriages being healed.<p>I was not friends with OW - just aquaintences. I think it would be extra hard to know OP well. I truly hope things work out for you. I don't know how common your situation is - I know I have had nightmares of meeting up with OW and I am constantly on alert when out shopping - afraid of running into her. MY NIGHTMARE!! Hold your head high and PRAY!!<p>Tina [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

You did great.
I did speak to the OW - twice. We had two fairly long phone conversations shortly after Dday. She actually thought she could HELP us in our marriage and offered to be there to talk to us both.
(gag, spew, etc)<p>Well, one thing that she discovered after speaking to me was that she had severely impacted the lives of a whole family and that the "fantasy" she and my H were involved in was just that. <p>Anyway - we had no more contact after that - she was in too deep and just couldn't take it anymore. Talking with me really screwed her up.
After our phonecalls she sent my H angry emails saying that he had screwed up her life as well as his wife's, to look no further than his own back yard for happiness, etc etc etc. I guess actually speaking with her helped me as she was faced the the reality of what her affair with my husband was. She too experienced confusion and self-doubt.
She did say she was "out of the picture" at that point, but didn't follow through right away. In fact she initiated renewed phone contact with my H in March. <p>You handled it all incredibly. All you can do is focus on you and your W - don't get caught up in the life of this OM - I understand completely how you felt empathy for the guy and that will not help you and your W. <p>I don't know if my rambling will help you at all - or that you need help really. Hang in there. Keep going day by day and be the best you can be.<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I thought you did great on the conversation.
There is one thing that bothers me and I have seen it on quite a few other posts. Why do you allow the WS total decision making to decide whether they will allow you to be in a marriage or not.
The WS is in the drivers seats and has final determination as to how you will live your life and whether she will deem your worthy to allow you to accept her back on her terms. It just seems irritating that they be allowed to have all of the power in how you will live your life.
I have also noticed that when the betrayed spouse
stands up and no longer allows himself to be a pushover and a slave to the WS; the WS begins to move out of the fog and understands that they may lose this person. It just seems that the WS begins to gain respect for the BS and finds them more attractive and desirable. Do you think this is human nature?

Thanks for the encouragement! It does help&#8230; This just seems to get harder every day. WS and I spoke for a long time today about &#8220;things&#8221;, first time in nearly two weeks. Still terminally confused and on the fence. She doesn&#8217;t understand how much this hurts at all. It boggles the mind! She can&#8217;t see why I have a problem with OM calling and such and had the audacity to get upset that I refuse to let her talk to him with me sitting there!!! I suppose that would require a little respect&#8230; <p>I was sitting there looking at her tonight and the full weight of our situation hit me again. I was looking at the woman that I&#8217;ve loved with all my heart for 22 years and knew she wouldn&#8217;t be here (so she says) except for her &#8220;obligations&#8221;. She&#8217;d be with him. So what do I do with that little snippet of information? I&#8217;m doing my best not to LB all over the place tonight. I don&#8217;t know how much of what she said tonight is true&#8230; Not much according to OM. I get so many conflicting signals and statements from her. They vary day to day often. Anyway&#8230; I guess I keep on until she either makes a decision or I get too tired to do it anymore. <p>Bryan: It&#8217;s really not about her at this point for me. It&#8217;s about improving myself and becoming the best partner I can, ideally for her but for whomever is in my future. I&#8217;ve done a great deal of soul searching and I&#8217;m working on my failures and shortcomings right now. The WS really doesn&#8217;t have control in that sense until the BS decides they love the WS enough to try. At that point we play the waiting game&#8230; We still have 100% control of our 50% of the relationship. It&#8217;s also not on the WS&#8217;s terms in that sense either. My W knows that her &#8220;obligations&#8221; isn&#8217;t an acceptable reason for her to stay for me. I need her here because this is where she wants to be. Nothing less is acceptable. I won&#8217;t live in half a relationship and I won&#8217;t let her either. If I can&#8217;t or she won&#8217;t allow me to be the partner she needs to attain the happiness she deserves, I&#8217;d as soon she went and found it elsewhere. Another realization I&#8217;ve come to, I do love her enough to let her go without impedance if she so chooses. What a mess this is&#8230;.