Last night my wife and I got into a discussion that I walked away feeling better about, but I think she might not have liked very much. Wanted to get someone else's take.<p>I am WS/BS, she is BS/WS...we both ended affairs.
Have been in recovery since middle of July<p>I have been plan A'ing very hard. Anytime we talk about the marriage, she goes into her usual, I have no feelings, I don't love you, I feel dead inside, why would you want a wife who doesn't love you mode. Last night was no exception. We agree to disagree on points, basically she doesn't want to be married to me and wants me to acknowledge that divorce is a possiblity...I acknowledge that she can do that if she wants, but that doesn't make it right. We don't even get into Biblical stuff, well you can imagine how that goes. But, last night she talked about these so-called feelings, or lack of, and I basically said to her, "You know what, I don't wake up "feeling" love for you every morning. I make the choice to forgive you for your affair, to search myself for how I can love you better today than yesterday, and I choose to keep working on it, trying. You may think you have it bad here, but you can be a pain in my [censored] too. Its not always easy, but I choose to keep trying." She proceded to call me a condescending ape, so I went to the gym. I guess that's a love bust, but its also radical honesty you guys. Its the truth. I didn't say it angrily, just matter of fact. I mean if she can sit there and tell me that by living at home, that is working on the marriage when she hasn't even tried to meet any of my EN's, then I think I should be able to be honest about how I am feeling too.
Questions, comments....
Thanks!

ummmmm... well... yep, I believe that was an LB. <p>Who brought up the subject? you or her?<p>I think I've seen here on the forum, that Steve recommends you only bring up "us" topics about every 2 weeks. When I counseled with Steve for 2 weeks, because of our delicate situation at the time (H was ready to move out and file D, but still at home waffling a TINY bit), Steve said don't bring up the "us" talks. If H brought it up, listen and try to remain calm and non-judgmental, and say something like "that would be a good question for Steve", instead of me trying to teach or preach.<p>I know, MH, we have soooo much we want to tell them, and we feel like we have the right to share out thoughts and feelings. But when it's a true LB (based on her reaction), then it should be avoided. Steve says avoid LB's at all costs. And say things like I'm learning what I need to do to make myself a better person and a better husband. I love you. I believe we can put this back together. <p>Radical honesty: hmmmm.... I believe one thing that caused H to give up so quick, was I was too honest. I mean.. he asked me questions. he truly acted like he wanted to work on us, and asked questions. What was I unhappy about? What can he do better? I should've known I was walking right into the death chamber for our marriage, and my answers could possibly squelch ANY hope he had of reconciliation. So the spouse that is working for the marriage (Plan A), has to be very delicate with the honesty thing. Avoiding LB's should be the priority.<p>my 2 cents... hope you get more opinions. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Thanks Faith,
I kinda figured it was, but its just so hard to have them look you in the eye and tell you, they are trying to work on the marriage when its clear that they aren't. How can just living with me be trying when she's doing nothing to engage. I don't get it. She says she's waiting on these feelings, well what does that mean? I don't know. I just know that she is a pain in my rear many times, but I still love her. I know I hurt her, but know that God can still get glory out of the mistakes we've made. Sheesh, this doesn't take brain surgery.

Well if you are just a plain ol insensitive jerk or a a stuffed dummy with no feelings, I'd say she was right. But if you are a person (gender doesn't matter here folks) brought into this world with the realm of human emotions, then nope she is wrong. <p>This have feeling, gotta work on our relationship is not 1 sided. If she thinks it is, then she better start working on it. The fact that you both have been on both sides of the fence and choose each other is a start, not the end of this process. Logically you both should know this better than anyone but hey is there still some fog over there? <p>When your W came back, did she learn or use the MB concepts? Is she familar with them? <p>L.

She's the one who introduced me to the site. I came out of the fog, she came back and jumped in it. She ended her affair, but many of the things she says and does even now seem very much foglike. Truthfully, she has stopped coming to this site because she thinks we all sound like Stepford people, doesn't like the terms, LB'ing, plan A'ing, etc. She says it only works if both people are willing and she has admitted openly that she is not. She says she's waiting for something to "click", but its not so that must mean D time.

"Pain in my [censored]?" Unless that's a term of endearment for the two of you, that part might have been a bit of an LB (I wish I'd used such gentle LBs).<p>I don't know about the rest, I pretty much think the rest was ok IMHO.<p>Stick to it.<p>Prayers,
Kev