Well, I was doing my best Plan A, and she HAD noticed...but it wasn't making any difference.<p>I was watching the end of a movie a couple of hours ago (about 10pm) and had a sudden and irresistably sinking feeling. I've had it off and on in recent days, guess what they say about listen to your gut is really true. <p>So, I took a little drive by OM's place. Nobody home, so I just happened to start over to where WS is living (girlfriend's house, but quite the part spot, I was wondering if there was one on)...but on the way (and I don't know HOW or WHY - divine intervention?) I got lost and ended up headed back the way I was coming....I turned around and thought I saw OM's car on another street, but I didn't pay much attention to it. I continued over to GF's house and it didn't look like anyone was up (certainly no party).<p>So, just to satisfy my curosity about the possible sighting, I went back by OM's place (actually, he's living in the basement of another teacher (WS is a middle school teacher). He was home, so I went and parked my truck around the corner and just happened to go for a little walk. It seems I tripped or something (yeah, right) and found myself laying in the dark, on the ground outside his window.<p>I heard WS voice, they were laying on the bed watching TV. I could hear chit chat but made out nothing much. Then they turned the lights off and watched more TV....then the TV went off.<p>I could tell they were about to have sex, I could tell it in HER voice. I've only known her for 12 years!<p>So....I rang his cell phone several times until he picked it up (he knew it was me because I actually programmed in my cell number one night at a party, nice huh?) He answered and I told him to put WS on. He did and I asked her if she had ANY idea how much what she was doing was hurting me. She asked what I where I was and I said that I was right outside the window and for her to PLEASE come out to talk.... So, she put on her PJ's and came up.<p>I repeated my question (about a thousand times as I'm prone to do). I asked why it was that she couldn't even conceive of giving our M a chance; no guarantees, no promises, no anything besides a chance. I explained that I KNEW that I hadn't met ANY of her needs for over a year and that I was NOW prepared to do that and MORE.<p>I explained that no matter what direction she takes, there's going to be pain....to her, to me, to OM, to her P, and others. But that if she chose to at least TRY, that pain would be GREATLY reduced....I could at least live knowing that we just couldn't put it back together (same for her parents, who are terribly hurt by all of this- my fault, I brought them into it).<p>She told me that she was DONE 6-9 months ago, just failed to tell me. I asked if she thought that 6-9 months ago, she should have given it a chance and told me there were problems, she said YES. I asked WHAT has changed in that time, that you don't owe it to me, her, us, her parents, our friends, our history, our future to give it a chance NOW. All she could come up with was that time had passed. Yet the way I see it it's no different, if she should have tried back then, she should try now.<p>She said it's not a contest between OM and me, I told her that it ABSOLUTELY IS. She loves him, she doesn't love me. He's been meeting her ENs, I haven't. I explained why it was that I was so insistent that she end the A after D-day, that she couldn't even BEGIN to search herself to see if she TRULY wanted the M to work as long as OM was in the picture.....because she loves him and not me, that would be a pretty easy choice in ANYONE'S eyse (go with the love every time).<p>She said that I haven't been listening this whole time- that she's DONE, that she's BEEN DONE, that she really doesn't even see it as an A because she was emotionally divorced for some time (even before our wonderful trip to Alaska in June!) She said that she told me she was still going to see OM, actually she said that she "wants to date him", not that she's GOING to date him....least wise sleep with him....actually, she said just this week that she told her C that she didn't want to carry on a PA w/ OM because she believes it's wrong....that why she was getting ready to F&*( him?<p>I told her what needs that I KNOW I haven't been meeting (All except $), but that if she ALLOWED me to meet them, she could fall back in love with me. Her skin crawled. I told her that I KNEW it would be difficult and that she'd have to mourn the love she feels for her "soul mate" (second one if you ask me, because I too was once a "soul mate").<p>There are a couple of MAJOR LB's that I engaged in in the two weeks post D-day. I dented her car w/ my fists, I told the whole story to a cousin she'd been getting advice from, I told her parents the whole story, and I had and intervention w/ her P, and I made the two of them sign a contract stating that they'd not have contact w/ each other for at least 5 weeks. She said that she didn't think she'd EVER forgive me for those, but then later she said that she'd probably forgive but not forget. I told her I didn't expect her to forget, and that I take responsibility for my actions, but that in every decision I am making now, I am considering her first (and would appreciate the same).<p>I know I shouldn't have done it, and I wouldn't have if they weren't going to have sex. I agreed w/ myself that I'd let it drop if they were just going to sleep next to each other. But they weren't, and I did.<p>I tried to communicat in the least LB manner possible, but I know the very fact that I was there was a major LB. But DAM^ IT, I'm fighting for my WIFE, for my LIFE, for the ONE THING ON THIS WORTHLESS WORLD THAT COMPLETES ME. She thinks it's sad that I invest so much into her, but one of my ENs (not on the list) is that I gain pleasure and happiness from making HER happy.<p>I promised her that I COULD make her happy. That I didn't want to have to start over re-building 12 years of history with someone else. I don't want to be 45 before any children I have are teenagers and can start to share adult activities with me. I want to take the 12 years we already HAVE, and build on THAT, in 12 years, we'll have 24 years of history and good and bad times.<p>She said that she can't even (or ever) see her loving me again or having my children, and that hurt. She said she's sorry that she's "destroying" (my word, not hers) my life. I told her that if she's sorry and cares enough to be sorry, then why would she continue to hurt me so. I told her I'm not asking for any guarantees that we'll be happy, or that we'll be together forever, only for a comittment to TRY, to EXPLORE THE POSSIBILITY, to GIVE ME A CHANCE TO HAVE HER FALL BACK IN LOVE WITH ME!<p>
She asked if I was going to be ok (on the way home) and I told her that I absolutely couldn't be worse. I could lose all my senses, my arms, my legs, be in a vegetative state, be drunk and broke and my life wouldn't be any worse than it is right now. She mentioned that I could be where I'm at right now, but STILL be suffering depression, and not feeling and not interacting w/ friends and family. HMMMM, that's close, but the saving grace about all that is that while I was depressed, I JUST PLAIN DIDN'T GIVE A SH#T. Even THAT would be preferable.<p>
Sorry to cry my heart out to everyone (and to be so long winded). <p>Please tell me where I can possibly go from here!<p>K<p>[ November 04, 2001: Message edited by: kevco- ]</p>

Sorry to hear this kev but let me play devilish ...<p>You say you in plan A ... what the heck are you doing on demanding and LB ?. Why do you interfere with the A. I know it is the hardest thing to give since you know f%^&ing is about to happen. Get back to MB-101. If you know you can not take it you should hold yourself from snooping or sleuthing WW.<p>If you are WW do you want to be back w/ violent behavior, demanding, interfering w/ her "business" and needing ?.<p>IMVHO, go back to do plan A. Your plan A is nothing but LB ... LB as defined by WW. Get help on managing your anger. You have to past this stage of anger to acceptance. You have to realize that 1. she will be there in the la la land and the only thing you could do is to realize that A will continue. 1. Accept that the only change you could do is to yourself and let her see it. Right now WW see you w/ no change at all, the same H that WW tries to justify her A for. If you have not conseling, call MB and get help to do solid plan A.

kevco- <p>My heart goes out to you. You are enduring more then anyone should have to.<p>At this point I'm not sure what you should do. According to MB you should either be Plan A'ing her or Plan B'ing her. I do think that perhaps you need to separate yourself from her. You need to take care of you.<p>I assume you have read the book Surviving an affair. So you now that the purpose of Plan A and Plan B are to help you handle the situation as much as anything else. <p>How often do you have contact with her right now? Perhaps it's enough contact that you are meeting some of her EN's. Are you helping her financially? <p>If you were to go to Plan B so that you can get some peace, it will give her a chance to see what life without you will be like. That would include cutting off any financial support you are now giving her. That's if she does not get a court order for support.<p>I'm not sure if you are ready for Plan B. Seems a that Harley suggests that the time to start Plan B is when a BS has just a little love left for the WS. Plan B helps them hold onto that love for a while so that the BS would be there if/when WS wants back.<p>Right now, tonight, don't make any decisions. Your encounter tonight was very traumatic and will probably take a few days to get yourself back together. So take care of yourself.<p>Z

Thanks Redhat.<p>I am in therapy, and I should have a call w/ Steve this week also.<p>Problem is, I have met NONE of her EN (except financial) for the last year, and the 3 previous to that I was slowly shutting down our communication lines.<p>So, while I'm trying to chip away with a Plan A three hours per week, this other FU^K is spending the 15 hours per week building his OWN passionate relationship with MY wife. He's young, and stupid and so I know that there's no reasoning with him. He just doesn't know CRAP about the world (hopefully, she'd get tired of that, but who knows).<p>Each day that the A goes on, their relationship is one day closer to their OWN marriage (I found a poem a couple of weeks ago in which she'd written about one day being Mrs. F-head).<p>I have SO MANY contributions to make for me, her, us. And I can understand her reluctance to take me serious, because she KNOWS I'm desperate, but these "changes" really aren't changes per say...they're more a getting BACK to my core belief system. The radical honesty, the affection, the recreational activities, etc.... those are ALL things that I've believed in my whole adult life, I just didn't put them in any discernable plan or order.<p>I WILL make these changes, but I just don't know how I CAN wait for her. Because once I get right with us not being together, I just don't know if I'd be able to back up (I guess that's what I'm asking her to do in a sense).<p>I understand about the LBs, and I knew that tonight would be one. But I just couldn't let him screw my wife, not while I knew it was happening. I mean, they still might (she wouldn't let me take her home, but offered to let me follow them there), but at least I won't know about it...I doubt it though, she's pissed.<p>Thanks again,
K

Z,<p>Yeah, I have SAA. I'm up to the recovery chapters, guess they're pretty pointless right now, but I'll read them anyway just to mull it over in my head.<p>Officially, we're only "seeing" each other once a week for supper, but we've been in pretty much daily contact in some manner. It's either her calling to give me a debit receipt, or stopping by to have me drill some holes in some craft stuff for her, or calling to talk about her session. But she's the one iniating all the contact.....normally, I'd think that was a good thing, but in light of tonight, I don't have a freaking clue.<p>Really, I don't know WHAT ENs rank high for her, I've been hesitant to give her the checklist, but I might now....she at least tells me that she's read the few things that I've given her in the past (though I've given her nothing since Plan A). Even if I DID know exactly what they are (I have a few guesses), a couple of hours per week just isn't enough.<p>To answer your questions, we still have joint checking...that's the ONE EN that I HAVE met over the last year and didn't want to cut that off too (not until Plan B). Brings up an interesting point, I have to fill out my insurance stuff for 2002 by friday (though I can modify it in Dec), I'm planning on continuing to include her on it, though I may drop the life insurance on me (maybe I'll keep it on her though----THAT'S JUST A JOKE, IF SOMETHING HAPPENS, I DIDN'T DO IT!!!!)<p>Sleepless in Omaha, tonight!<p>Later
K

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
So, while I'm trying to chip away with a Plan A three hours per week, this other FU^K is spending the 15 hours per week building his OWN passionate relationship with MY wife. He's young, and stupid and so I know that there's no reasoning with him. He just doesn't know CRAP about the world (hopefully, she'd get tired of that, but who knows).</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I hear you ... I have more than that but it is frustating. But you have to make A die naturally as a foundation to build healthy M.<p><strong> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I have SO MANY contributions to make for me, her, us. And I can understand her reluctance to take me serious, because she KNOWS I'm desperate, but these "changes" really aren't changes per say...they're more a getting BACK to my core belief system.<hr></blockquote> </strong><p>Showing needing might be LB for her and how could you convince her if all of your changes are not because of act of desparado ???. There are other creative thing to do ... such as sending her flower with nice notes every other day ?. Being there w/o presently there. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] : <p><strong> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I understand about the LBs, and I knew that tonight would be one. But I just couldn't let him screw my wife, not while I knew it was happening. I mean, they still might (she wouldn't let me take her home, but offered to let me follow them there), but at least I won't know about it...I doubt it though, she's pissed.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Every time you LB you have to start plan A'ing from start and if you do it too many time IT WILL LOOSE ITS EFFECTIVENESS ?.<p>Try to get some rest ... you make me want to take some sleeping pill tonite ... I better call the night off for me.

Kevco,<p>Bad situation to put yourself in....wow, hiding under the window? I can see how you might have WANTED to do that, but is it really a good idea?<p>Spank! Spank! LB, big time, and I am glad you realise it!!!<p>Now, sorry for the telling off, I actually posted because of your comment about not knowing your W's emotional needs. I think that you do know them, really I do. She was your wife...you must have some idea of her likes and dislikes (for example, you know she doesn't like being snooped on...so now you don't do it anymore [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p>I figured out a lot of my H's EN's by thinking about the things he complained about. He would say "We never do this....(recreational)" or "How could you spend so much on food....Financial" or "Gee, shouldn't you do more exercise....(attractiveness of spouse)". Yes, Kevco, the clues are there, you just might have to sit and think a while about what she really likes and dislikes. And then in the best way you can, since you are separated, you try to meet them.<p>NOW, some of those needs you cannot meet, ie, physical affection...if she doesn't want you to touch her...but there are some you most definetly can meet given a little time with her. But watch her carefully, if she doesn't like something, stop doing it.<p>Hope this helps.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Kev, Kev, Kev - in addition to what the others have said, let me slap you around some. Sorry.<p>Please refer to WAT's rule #1. You cannot reason with her. She is incapable of rational thought. Ever try to reason with a drunk? She is saying ALL the classic revisionist history stuff and your stalking is giving her more ammunition. Stop it. <p>OF COURSE she doesn't want to try right now. That would mean admitting to a mistake. She feels so good right now that NOTHING can alter her mindset except HER. The last person on the planet who can make her see is - guess who? - YOU!<p>I agree with her - this is NOT about a contest between you and OM. OM has nothing to do with it - except for his willing participation. She did not run TO him, she ran FROM your relationship.<p>If she has acknowledged some of your improvements, your Plan A has worked some, but every time you LB, it takes away from those gains.<p>If it's any consolation, I see nothin unique in her actions as a WS. My wife is exactly the same when it comes to trying to work on the marriage. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch. No effort whatsoever. This was the basis for the selection of my user name.<p>Worth a try

Nina,<p>I actually didn't plan on hiding outside the window when I left home. But when OM wasn't home, and then by some miracle (me getting lost on a route that I've taken dozens of times), I saw him going home at 10-10:30, it just made that sinking feeling in my stomach even worse. By the way, I have the same feeling right now....I'd just bet that they're.... <p>I know it sounds hokey, but I truly believe that I'm in tune with her at this point in our lives. We've always finished others' senetences and known what the other was about to say and said it first, etc... I'm sure a lot of married couples are like that. Beyond that, even when I was suffering depression, nearly every time I thought "Gee, it'd be nice to have sex tonight." She would want the same thing, but we never could quite get our actual clocks aligned. I'd want it in the morning, and she'd want it late at night after I'd gone to bed....and we just didn't. Well, yesterday was NO exception, I was thinking that I wished we weren't suffering like this because I wanted desperately to make love to my wife, well, guess what, she did too, just not to her husband. That's a little of why I think I know they're doing it right now.<p>You're right, I DO know what many of her ENs are, but I don't know the all important RANK. All I know for sure is that I haven't met ANY of them in over a year.<p>WAT: Problem is, we've BOTH been very rational people. Even now, I'm trying to work through this situation methodically and carefully. She says that she did that 6-9 months ago and is just past it now. And the really scary thing is that I believe her. I know that her judgement and perception are being drastically affected by the "Soul Mate" relationship that she thinks she's in, for the true love that I concede that she is feeling for OM. In that sense, it really IS a contest between OM and me. She loves him and will stand by him, much like she has done w/ me in the past.<p>I know nothing she is saying or doing is unique (no matter how much she tells me that this is TOTALLY different from any tale here). Problem is, I really believe what she's saying and it scares me. It drains all hope from my soul.<p>I could see her changing her tune ONLY if the A ended and she was able to evaluate us/me outside of that situation. But as long as the A goes on (I fear it could be months, years, longer) I stand no chance. The OM is much like me at that time in my life, charming, fun, funny, caring, affectionate. But I also believe he's destined to fall into the same trap that I did, complacency. But that trap is more like a maze than a trap, it can take years to find your way to the center, and I feel confident that she'd stand by him through much of it, or worse yet, actually communicate her dissatisfaction to him to save their relationship (like I wasn't given a chance to do).<p>I'm just so scared that the A can work.<p>K

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong>Well, I was doing my best Plan A, and she HAD noticed...but it wasn't making any difference.
She told me that she was DONE 6-9 months ago, just failed to tell me. she's DONE, that she's BEEN DONE, that she really doesn't even see it as an A because she was emotionally divorced for some time </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hello, Kev,
I haven't posted to you before, but there are a few similarities in our "stories" that I felt I had a 'right' to comment on a few things:<p>First of all, my WH left, after basically "divorcing" me (in HIS mind), too, without telling me!! I mean, HOW do you see an atty, file for d., pack and leave, and move in w/OW ALL IN ONE WEEK ( without me even realizing he was having an A ) unless you had "gotten there" in your head long before that? Well, obviously that is what he did. So I kinda understand her statement that she was "done" 6-9 months before YOU knew it.<p>It's all just revisionist history, forget it! As you have been advised, forget ANYTHING she says right now! Also, QUIT trying to reason with her!! She's feeling all kinds of feelings -- uh, someone on here can describe what those feelings are, the enzymes or something that are released when one feels "happy, loved..." whatever.......
My point is, she is looking at her life w/OM through "Rose-Colored Glasses" right now, so YOU don't look so good.<p>BUT, the good news is that she DOES look to you for some EN's, such as financial support, also you said you drill holes for some craft thingys for her? OR to talk about her day at work??? Man, I would do ANYTHING for that kind of daily contact!! My WH will only do that if I call HIM. Keep doing that stuff. BUT you MUST STOP "spying" and following her, and wondering what they might be doing. Man, you KNOW what they "might be doing." Don't make yourself sick worrying over it.<p>The fact that she asked if you were going to be OK tells ME that there ARE feelings for you there somewhere, they are just stuffed right now. She can't allow herself to feel them, cause then she would have to admit that it "might not be over" between you (of COURSE it's not over!).<p>My final point to you is that by your sig line I see that he's 19 (?!?!?!?!) .
Oh, P U U U U U L E E E E Z E ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THAT WILL LAST/?!?!?! He's 19!!! For God's sake!!! She's 30......he's going to want to do things, party, maybe "see" others......I know I for dang sure couldn't party when I was 30 the way I did when I was 19. Just WAIT for the day SHE's tired, or PMS'ing and HE wants to party or whatever...... Major LB then by him!!<p>In the meantime, you've got work to do!! Get up off your pity chair now, you've had your party. Get BUSY FIXING what needs fixing about YOU. Read. Read, and study. Change yourself. Learn, be ready. DON"T FIXATE on the problem. This will only pull you down. That isn't attractive to her. Be in a good mood whenever you see her.<p>I would stay in Plan A for now. You've only been in Plan A for a very short time. DON"T have anymore "relationship" talks, NO MORE asking if she would give your M another chance. She doesn't see that ever happening right now. I guarantee he'll "tire" of her, OR want to add - umm - more into his life, and that won't please her! He's only 19. Think about it!! That's pretty young to saddle up with an older woman.....if he does the math and figures out where SHE'LL be when HE's 30.......( assuming he can ADD). Uh, sorry! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p> Sorry this is so long. I just had a lot to point out to you! This is the "teacher" in me!<p>Hang tough, partner, you're going to be OK. Just follow the advice you have been getting on here, OK?<p>God Bless,
Lupo<p>[ November 04, 2001: Message edited by: lupolady ]</p>

Thanksfor the post, Lupo. I agree that I need to stop the spying, actually last night was the first real time since Plan A (alright- 1 for 1 on "caught 'ems").<p>I agree and don't THINK that the A would work simply because of the age (she's INCREDIBLY sensitive about that btw). But like I said earlier this morning, he's much like me and I would have done ANYTHING to meet her ENs. Granted, that's probably the one thing that she despises in me right now, my complete want to please her, but from OM, it's attractive (go figure).<p>As far as fixing ME, I know where it is that I want to be with myself. I have a plan, and I'm going to stick to it. That part's going to be the easy part, waiting to see if it matters will be the toughy.<p>It's just all so unfair, but I guess you know what THEY say about fair.<p>Well, gotta go to church.<p>Thanks again, I feel a little better this a.m.<p>I'll check back later (obviously)
K

Kev,<p>I think you replied to me before, along the lines of "patience, man." Well, right back at ya. It's ridiculous to say it - and I fully understand your spot - if my W was currently in PA too, I'd be feeling even more than I am right now. There's so many elements of what your W said to you, though, that mirrors my situation. It makes me sick to think about it - but less sick today than yesterday - slowly, slowly, ever so slowly I'm learning to let go.<p>I've been doing some reading, and found a few interesting points. I wonder out loud how these things integrate with MB concepts, and whether some might be interpreted as LBing - from what I can see, I doubt it - a lot of this is about rebuilding one's self-esteem while still Plan A'ing. Some basic concepts:<p>- Stop pressuring, complaining, whining, etc.
- Agree with what WS says - put a good name on their negative feelings
- Don't defend yourself (and watch them come to your defence - I've seen this one work myself)
- Act happy - even if you're not feeling it - play hard to get - be satisfied with status quo - act friendly but indifferent (sounds like Plan B in some ways) - enjoy friends, work, hobbies, etc. - create environment in your life where you seem different / interesting
- Date others - make them jealous (doesn't need to be flaunting - this is for yourself too)
- Do everything instantly, happily your mates way (I think this needs to be complimented with good Plan A to be really effective)
- Stop "working on" your relationship (so hard). I find this too - the more we talk about things, the worse they seem to get. I'll post another message about this - it deserves some discussion
- Come to a realization about "needs" vs. "desires". It's d@mn hard, but it's amazing how such a simple concept can help shift one's mindset. (The more you "need" her, the less likely you'll have her!)
- Stop showing jealousy, controlling, complaining, reasoning (interesting this writer sees these as LB too - not an uncommon concept)
- Whatever it is you're doing that's not working - do the opposite (I kind of got this one from my therapist too)
- Get yourself out of pain - focus on a list of positives that make you happy
- Kind of a last resort in my eyes, but after you've make it clear that you're dedicated to working on M (as you've been), agree with her desire to leave/divorce - whatever she says goes. It's the fighting against it that generates more LB.<p>And then there's always Plan B - whenever that's right for you. Again, a lot of that is obvious stuff, I just found it interesting to find it elsewhere too.<p>I think my WS is still around largely because of guilt. Guilt because she emotionally divorced me a long time ago, by her claims, and now realizes that I wasn't going to roll over and let her go without a fight. That's why d-day for me was such a f'ing shock. She seemed happy - we had a nice trip in August, had fun, some really nice sex, then BAM, 9/3 started my road to hell. As our therapist makes clear - she has a serious problem with expressing her needs - that's why she built up this resentment over time. (Frankly, that's part of it, pure selfishness is a large player too, even by her own admission.)<p>Oh well, another day. "Before enlightenment, chopping wood, carrying water, after enlightenment, chopping wood, carrying water."

(((((KEV)))))
First of all, BREATHE!!! We BS's often forget we can still do that. You know that the only person in all of this that you have control over is YOU! Also, I agree with Lupolady:<p>Oh, P U U U U U L E E E E Z E ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THAT WILL LAST/?!?!?! He's 19!!! For God's sake!!! She's 30......he's going to want to do things, party, maybe "see" others......I know I for dang sure couldn't party when I was 30 the way I did when I was 19. <p>Right now it's a big ego booster for your W. THIS WILL NOT LAST. Even without your interference, the odd of this lasting are almost nil. TRY TO LET IT GO.<p>Work on you. You say that's your main goal, then find a way to let that other crap GO!<p>She will NOT listen to anything you have to say against what she's doing. You WILL push her deeper into the fog the more you try to control the situation.<p>This is truly the beginning for you. My d-day was May 5. My H moved back home July 6. The A continued AFTER he gave up his apartment. I made him leave 9/22. As far as I know, contact finally ended 10/2. My H is back home. <p>However, my ride is truly just beginning. My H has NO EMOTIONS whatsoever towards me. He's changed his tune a million times about wanting to work on the marriage. Right now, he says "this is who I am, I know who you are. Right now I just want to live here, help you pay the bills, and see if I can fall back "in love" with you." I say, what a crock! Unfortunately, if I choose to continue to want to save my M, I'm going to have to do it on my own for now.<p>You're about saving YOU and YOUR SANITY right now, Kev. Plan A whenever she lets you, UNLESS YOU'RE LOSING YOUR LOVE FOR HER. Then it's time for Plan B. I've seen that very often no contact with the BS is what it finally takes to get them out of the fog.<p>Just remember PLEASE that God should be your first focus. God wants your marriage and so do you. God understands the pain you're in. Pray for God to give you strength, PATIENCE and peace. I've said it before, I'll say it again, GOD is the only sure thing you have right now. It sucks, but HEY HE LOVES YOU!!!!!<p>I'm praying for you bud. <p>P.S. - QUIT DRIVING BY OM'S HOUSE! RIGHT NOW. IT WILL ONLY BRING YOU MORE HEARTACHE. STAY AT HOME!!!!
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>MOM

Kevco...<p>I am very sorry to hear about your situation. I am the BS as well and if I ever had the chance like you did to make a bloody mess of the OM face, I would have at the time. I TOTALLY understand your feelings and emotions at this point and I admire your for being responsible in your marriage in trying your best to meet the needs of your wife.<p>I think its very important that you and your wife recognize the importance of the No Contact rule! This is key to the recovery efforts. If you can get her to agree to this rule, you will be on the right path. No Contact means NO CONTACT! Dinner, email, phone, fax, anything!<p>My wife gave me the Emotional Divorce excuse too after she told me that she was sorry for her affair and she even told me that I deserved someone MUCH better than her! Go Fiqure! I think I did, but it just seems very strange for a WS to say that right after discovery.<p>On an other note, I bet the adreneline was PUMPING through you when you stumbled on them! On dday, I remember that I could have easily put someone or something through the wall about 5 feet or so. Its the feeling of major disrespect and dishonor!<p>There is never any good reason for an affair and I am tired of hearing EXCUSES for adulterous behavior! I hope everything works out for the best for your both! Please read "surviving an affair"! This will help!<p>Bryan [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi,<p>Well Kevco understand this. Given your set of circumstances and opportunities, I think at least 1/2 this board would have done what you did and be hurting like you are right now. OK? <p>Then we would have come here and been 'slapped' by some of those same people who know this is not a healthy step but probably couldn't help themselves. I know I would probably be one of them. So the slaps being sent are out of love and concern and probably remnding us that we could have done the same thing. <p>This is painful, you have survived the initial shock and can when you reach a more stable peace of mind, plan for 'your' future. I recommend reading up on plan B. Your W appears to have no intention of responding to your plan A. <p>Then step back and look at your situation, write down the pros and cons. This will help you decide how you go. <p>From what you have described, here is what I feel your options could be:<p>1. Continue to be nice and available to her. Tell her you will be there for her and do anything she says and wants. Hang your life on her every word. Try to analyze everything she moves, says and does. <p>She will continue to walk all over you. <p>2. Continue to be nice but limit your availibility to her. You are still in plan A at this time but you are requiring respect. <p>3. #2 + ask her to move out. <p>4. #2 and tell her to move out. <p>5. #4 and remove her from your insurance (if she has her own, you are not leaving her out in the cold and don't let her tell you otherwise). <p>6. #5 and get a legal separation. At this point, you are also protecting your finances. <p>NOTE: An angry or desparate woman can think of many ways to get back at her H and ruin him financially. In that state of mind many plan and execute this with little remorse. In this sense I think women are as a group worse then men. Again, this is just my opinion. The laws tend to favor the lower income person also. So be aware.<p>7. Do nothing. <p>
There may be more options, just jotted down what comes to mind. You are in a highly emotionlly charged time right now, don't make any major life changing decisions without proper counsel. See your counselor, Steve and your lawyer. <p>Your W is in the twiglight zone (oh I meant twig.... like twiggy?) She has chosen to leave her H for this fabulous 19 year old and turned him into a boy toy. The day of awakening will come, it is just a matter of when. Where will you be at that point depends only on you and your strength. See you are taking separate paths right now. You can only take care for yourself. She has chosen to stray from the path you walked on as a couple. Don't leave your path unless you want to end your marriage. She will need to come back to you. <p>This does not mean you become stringent and make no changes or allowances. It means your goal is to stay married. If things continue as they are, the time will come when you no longer will put up with this. That time will come when you are ready in your mind and heart. No one can force you to come to that frame of mind before its time, not even you. <p>When that time comes, then your path will take a different direction. You will be ready for it and be in a stronger position than you are today. By being here Kevco, you are planning for your future. The pain you endure right now would have happened with or without being at MB. MB and its board just gives you place to vent and be supported. <p>Also, all that stuff she is babbling about the family and other things she is mad at you for? Don't worry, mad today, cry tomorrow, happy, angry....... they change their emotions more than they change their clothes. So you will learn not to 'ride the rollercoaster of emotions'. It is not a fun ride and once you get on it always takes too long to get off. Better to step off ASAP and watch them wear themselves out. <p>Take Care,
L.

Thank you all. You've all been my rock and voices of reason through this.<p>I wanted to share the prayer of confession from today's service...particularly fitting, I wish she had been there:<p>>>>> Searching God, we have wnadered from home, gone off looking for something; some vague longing; something that thrills or excites; something that takes away this empty gnawing inside. We have wandered far, gotten lost, given up ever finding that which satisfies. Loving God, you have been with us in the search, you have beckoned us home. You have prepared a table for us, a huge welcoming party. And all heaven rejoices. Thank you for seeking us again and again. Amen.<<<<<p>Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Actually, I'm beginning to feel God around me; holding me, supporting me. I feel as if it wasn't a coincidence that I got lost last night and ended up turning around right in front of my church, and then seeing OM car on another road below the one I was driving on. I feel that He is trying to guide me, the prayer is just too near to home. I only wish I could hear Him clearly (maybe if he'd send me an email or drop me a letter, grin).<p>JR- many of the steps in the list you provided are exactly what I'm attempting to do (just seem to be failing a little bit, actually I was doing ok 'til last night), well, except for a couple- dating? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>MOM- that's the second time in a week you've had to remind me to breath, thanks. I've read a some of your story and I can't even imagine that I could ever have your strength. Thank you for choosing to share it with me.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Right now I just want to live here, help you pay the bills, and see if I can fall back "in love" with you." <hr></blockquote><p>Oh, what I would do to even hear those words.<p>I would take the greatest hope and joy if she would even waver the tiniest bit. But she's been resolute in her indications that the M is over and has been. Obviously, I choose to not believe her and hold out hope, but I also realize that at some point (and I don't know when it'll be), I WILL lose my love for her. And that scares me more than you can know. I made a solemn vow to love her until death, and the only thing that I think I'll be able to replace that love with is an equally powerful emotion- hate. I truly don't want to go through the next several years of my life hating her. I'm pretty sure that at some point, I'd get over the hatred and be able to look at her in a different light, but it took 9 years for that day to come with my mother and she didn't hurt me a fraction of the hurt I feel now.<p>I can't go through life carrying that feeling, but I just don't know what else there would be. I know it's not Christian, it's not right, it's not healthy. But it IS. I don't know if I learned that coping method from my parents or what, but it's there none the less.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> P.S. - QUIT DRIVING BY OM'S HOUSE! RIGHT NOW. IT WILL ONLY BRING YOU MORE HEARTACHE. STAY AT HOME!!!! <hr></blockquote><p>BOY, you DO sound like a MOM! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>O- I understand, appreciate, and deserve the slaps I'm getting. I would hold no resentment about that, even if I didn't deserve them. I knew I was out of line when I went there, but I just HAD to do it.<p>In you're list, #1 sounds pretty attractive to me (even though I get walked upon). But sadly, it looks like option #3.5, limited contact and SHE moved out (of her own accord). I feel that #5 would take the one EN that I've been good at providing her (it's infinitely sad that the only thing I've been able to do for her in a year is provide money, but that's just the way it is). Now, we ARE separated, but I don't know about the Nebraska laws regarding separation -vs legal separation. <p>During one of my LB fits, I actually consfiscated all of her plastic for fear that she'd do just that, something stupid to ruin BOTH of our financial futures (as if DV doesn't do that enough already). But we talked calmly about it and I don't believe she'll do that, unless I provoke it first by like fire bombing OM's house (JUST A JOKE! though it IS awefully tempting, if I had no morals....).<p>And finally about the emotional roller coaster that you mentioned she's on, I'd sure like to see something that resembles a roller coaster, but I haven't. It's been more like a freight train heading straight and true through the darkness of the tunnel (and OM is the light at the end). I did hear that she had cried some about this whole mess a week ago or so, but I have no idea what for (probably sorrow for me telling her parents and turning them against her if I had to guess).<p>Thank you.<p>God help us all.
K<p>[ November 04, 2001: Message edited by: kevco- ]</p>

Hi Kevco,<p>You are maintaining a good working attitude and you should be commended for it. It is hard to do with the odds that 'seem' to be stacked against you. Note: 'seem' perception of this is important. <p>Funny how the WS expects or even the BS sometimes expects that the WS will be financially moral. Hm.... why? I know my H told me that he would never ever do anything to ruin us financially. Yet he did. Whether he realized it or not, he did. My H was confused as to why I did not 'trust' him enough to leave him on the renter's agreement. Well, I did leave him on but that was after I checked with the landlord about drawing up a new one. Now our landlord wants to renegogiate our agreeement could mean we have to pay more money. <p>The point is that for anyone who does step out on the family/marriage arrangement who are they to 'expect' others to trust them in anything? When they are the very ones who would have kicked out the other spouse if the other spouse 'ever did 1/2 of what the WS did!! Go figure. <p>When trust is lost, it is lost, not just in one aspect but in as a whole matter, in the whole person. Yet the WS 'thinks' that trust is an item that can be put on and taken off of different pieces of one's life. <p>Let's see if that theory works anywhere else. You have a relative (let's say cousin) visit and he takes the $50.00 bill you have on your table. He stole it. Leaves your house and now you need a baby sitter. Would you call him? Maybe not. But this cousin is an electrician and now you need some wiring done. He is 'suppose' to be good (at least according to his mom - your aunt). Yet he has shady business practices. He also is a wandering husband and has already made advances to your W. Would you ask him to do the work in your house, even if he agrees to do it for free? Hm...... some might consider it. Let's add that he already spent time in jail for rape. But remember none of this happened to you except for his stealing $50.00. Don't you trust him? In fogese land, it could be 'yea sure Y knot!'<p>Note: The above is just an illustration. Hope it got my point across. <p>Take Care,
L.

O- I see your point about trust (but, SHEESH, you're scaring me w/ your illustration, that guy doesn't live near ME does he) [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>You know, when we talked about the whole financial thing after I'd taken her cards. She was like, "why would I go and do something so stupid that could ruin not only your (that would be me) life, but also mine." Oh, yeah, I get it...totally different from having an A. Ok, I trust her-not.<p>She did stop by a little while to get some craft supplies....had her girlfriend drive her over. Guess she didn't want to be alone w/ me. I may have told OM last night that "if I were the threatening type, now would be a good time for it." I just want him to CONSIDER what I MIGHT do to him. People kill each other over these very issues all the time, now I'm certainly not going to do THAT, but I AM constantly fighting a moral battle within myself, and thus far, my morals are winning, but it's been pretty close at times. I mean, I have no doubt in my mind that my father burnt down the OM house after my mother left him for OM.<p>So WS asked me while she was here if I was going to do something to her or OM. I didn't particularly want to, but I told her the truth. I said that her safty is NOT in question, but that I am fighting that battle when it comes to OM.<p>But everyone on this post has been right. I need to stick to the plan. I'm not saying that I won't have weak moments (like last night), but I KNOW that they do me no good w/ WS, or for myself.<p>I just wish he'd screw up BIG time. I don't know if I would, but I could probably facilitate that without taking any REAL/tangible action. He's under age, drinks, and drives, and I know some of his favorite dives......HMMMMM, "hello police, yeah, there's a drunk driver leaving the bar at high speeds." If there's one thing that WS won't tolerate, it's drinking & driving. She had a cousin who was killed by a drunk, and she nearly left me when I got a DUI....still hasn't forgiven me for that either.<p>Ok, gonna go take a motorcycle ride and chill.<p>Thanks for a piece of your sanity.<p>K

Good, you got her attention. NOw the NEXT time she asks those types of questions, DON'T give her a complete answer. Just say "I don't know" or Maybe ...not. Something so that she continues to think. <p>Under the Mosaic law in the Bible, the innocent mate had the right to have both the OP and WS killed. That is not what we live under today. So those angered feelings are there for a reason. It is not just unlawful but even in God's sight what is being done is wrong. I may be get flamed for saying that but that is not a point of interpretation on Bible principles. It is in there in black and white. <p>However, we are under obligation to love our neighbor. You still love your W and your W may wonder why you don't want to hurt her as much as you want to hurt the OM. Well my h said that also and I replied that, 'well maybe I do'. Then I continued "but I do love you and I have no loving feelings for that ow. But .... continued again (used to talk to H in short spurts - short attention span)..... but I said I could get that way with you, just can't say when. end of conversation. <p>Hope you had a nice ride. My H likes motorcycles also. It is a trigger for me since the ow WANTED to buy H a motorcycle (on one of her last attempts to keep him with her). <p>L.

kevco,<p>I just wanted you to know that I read your post and I'm feeling for you. I can only reinforce what everybody else has said, don't focus on the A or the OM - you have to focus on you. If you continue to LB you'll only push her further from you. Focus, kevco, focus,<p>slow it down and take care of you,<p>- Freddy.