Yeah, Yeah, focus. Thanks Freddy. I know, man. That's the sucky part, I KNOW what I need to do, it's just so darned hard to do it sometimes.<p>Just had a flash from WS conversation this afternoon and being the armchair analyzer that I am, I'm not sure how to take it.<p>When she asked if I was gonna hurt her or OM, and my response, she said "because if you do, I'll NEVER come back to you."<p>WTF???? I thought we had already established that point. I guess it could have been just a slip (hopefully showing that her resolve ISN'T complete), or maybe it was a threat meant to influence my actions, or maybe something entirely different.<p>Speaking of threats, seems to me that of the 3 of us, I'm the only one who HASN'T made overt threats. WS told me that if I drive by OM's house again, he'd call the police...uh, ok, go ahead.<p>Then she makes the threat of NEVER COMING BACK TO ME.<p>The closest thing I've made to a threat was what I said last night. Now I know that my body language has been INCREDIBLY threatening to him the last couple of times I saw him, but thought crimes aren't YET real crimes.<p>oh, well... the plan!<p>K

Hey Kevco,<p>Didn't you know that the OP/WSs live in a place where you are guilty for just being????? Uhh...being a BS/H/W/parent/child/alive? The state is called Fogese land. The rules are:<p>1. They don't have to be there to be there
2. The BS is never right
3. WS/OP are right 50% of the time and the BS
is wrong the other 50%. <p>4. No BS's allowed
5. NO BS Lbing allowed
6. BS's loose all rights when entering Fogese
land.
7. The fogese police have the right to pull you out of your house and from your car if they even suspect the you suspect that the WS is up to no good. <p>8. BS's are not allowed to Fogese land with or without a passport. <p>9. Fogese residents have no hospitals or jails because no one is ever sick and does no wrong. <p>
I am sure there are more rules and if I keep this up, WAT & a few others might show up and add more...... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Kevin,
You really called him on the phone, asked to speak to her and said Im outside the window come out????? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
Someday you will laugh at this site I promise.
Unlike the others I think you held your temper nicely - I dont know if I would have handled it well.
OK you look like a jerk stalker, Im sure OM is playing this up - "see how crazy he is? why were you ever with him."
Look at this as though you were advising your best friend.
Maybe she likes having you "fight " for her, did she feel ignored for a long time?
YOU KNOW he will slip up if you let it go - he's young dumb and full of (beer?)
Let it die its death, as long as you keep the fire burning it will be true love - the two of them against the world blah blah.
Tell her you realize your ways in the past were in error, list them. Then say I am going to be working on these because whether you are in my future or someone else I need to learn to be a good Husband.
Then dont let her push your buttons.
She is acting 19, what would you do if you were 19 and someone told you no?
Does she work? Why are you supporting her?
Lets see if I were 19, my own place daddy paying bills.......
Dont be mad at me
just my 2 cents

kevco,<p>I was in a similar situation with my W - at one stage, I left a party and she stayed to be with the OM. That sucked. My emotions were running overdrive and I was at bursting point. When I confronted her the following day she spat at me - told me I was pathetic to even try and compete with the OM.<p>The lesson I learned - if you try and compete with the OM, you're going toe to toe with the devil. And you may loose. The best advice I ever had was to play smart, and play my own game. And that advice came from my wife !!!!! get that, unwittingly she told me what to do and I built that into my Plan A.<p>kevco, going after the OM is playing the game on his terms. Start playing the game on your terms. Go back to basics - what was the attraction between you and your wife in the first place - what was it that she liked about you then?<p>- Freddy<p>[ November 04, 2001: Message edited by: Freddy ]</p>

Orchid- I think you ought to put that in it's own post so that all of us newbys can print out the rules of Fogese....that's a hoot! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>SP- yup, I was waiting to see if they were going to just sleep or what. Well, it turns out she started to go south (if you know what I mean), so I called. I understand the whole "look at that crazy stalker guy", and actually there've only been a couple of times that I let on that I was following her (she'd REALLY freak if she knew how much the first week after she moved out). But I'm pretty much done with that now (can't say that I WON'T, but I won't confront her w/ it...yet if at all).<p>I already have told her what I know that my failures in the last 1-4 years have been, and I said pretty much just what you've suggested.<p>The supporting thing is a little wierd feeling (for lack of a better description). That's literally the one need that I HAVE met in the last year (and that's no exageration). She makes MORE than enough to support herself (especially while she's living w/ a friend), but I think things would get pretty tight if I cut her off. I'd be a little better off, except I'd have the house payment, but I think I could handle it. I only make about 1/3 more than her, but in that third is a pretty good sum. I just don't think I want to burn that bridge at this time. Now, if/when I get to plan B, absolutely. About her health insurance, I'm not sure exactly what to do. I can have her on MY plan for next to nothing, whereas it'd cost her like 3-400 per month (just a guess), PLUS she gets a stipend from the school district that she actually GETS in her check because she's not taking the insurance. All told, I think it'd be like a 5-600 per month swing in her cash flow. And SHE can't live without insurance....she's always on meds and stuff....me on the other hand, aside from my recent trips for depression, thyroid, STD screening, I can't remember the last time I was at the Dr.<p>You know, the REALLY crappy thing is, she's acting like she's 19. Hmmm, when I was 18, pretty much this very thing happened to me (obviously I wasn't married to the girl, but I certainly THOUGHT we'd be) Good thing is that she came back a year later, but I just used her and dumped her when WS came along in college (nice guy, huh).<p>Don't worry, SP, I'm not going to be mad at ANYONE on this site for simply providing their 2cents. That's the whole reason I'm here, to get some different perspectives, to get some different answers, to ask and be asked some different (and sometimes difficult) questions.<p>Ok, I've babbled enough.<p>later,
K

kev<p>I can feel your pain. First thing is let the A die and It will die. I know it is hard not to interfere with it but you have to try real hard.<p>Don't try to analyze anything the WS says it can not be analyzed, ( they are talking out of their a$$) It will drive you crazy if you try.<p>In time your WW will see the OM for what he really is a jerk.<p>Time, time, time that is what it will take and you can get though it.<p>Focus on you and let the teenagers be for now.<p>Stay strong and vent often here.<p>
SLH

I'm focusing (perhaps in a very evil way) on the insurance issue. <p>Your W doesn't want to be married to you (right now). YOUR insurance coverage is one of the many benefits to your marriage. Why would you keep her on it? You said so yourself, that it could be revised in December sometime. <p>IMO, she needs a little bit of a (big?) reality slap. Call it tough love if you will. Will it be a mega LB? Of course! But there are many LB's that go on in here that help the WS get out of the fog some. Exposing the A being #1 on the list.<p>Be disgusted by me if you will... but as I was reading your initial post, I was kind of smirking. Don't get me wrong... I know the pain and anguish you're experiencing all too well right now... but I also know how good it felt (at the time) to call OM on his cell. I have done some mega LBing myself (I'm in that 1/2 with Orchid), even though I knew darn well at the time that I shouldn't be doing it. It's its own form of addiction, isn't it? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You asked what to do now. You protect yourself. You continue your plan A by being the better person. If you have an urge to drive by a certain residence.. come on here and vent about how you would like to do this that and the next thing... then don't do any of it. Then go rearrange the furniture. I suggest couches first. They take a good beating, and don't hate you for it afterwards [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The temptation to LB is SO STRONG!!! Don't I know it! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] You MUST fight that urge to be a better you. You're still human, and are bound to make some mistakes... but learn from them!!! Listen to your inner voice that tells you what you should and should not do to be the better person in the long run.. and follow it! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Karen

T25,<p>Well, as of right now, I'm pretty much hopeless, so I guess there's no need to do anything regarding her (see the latest saga in kevco's divorce- Right here<p>I not only set any hopes of US back last night, but today has just about destroyed me.<p>Thanks for the advice, I know that's what I have to do, and it's my only real alternative right now.<p>K

Hi kevco,
Not a slap, but just a gentle yank by your arm or ear, whichever I can reach first! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Question: were you trusting God with your marriage when you were lying on the ground outside that window?<p>I think what you did could have gotten you arrested, maybe? Something like this could maybe cause your spouse to file a restraining order if it gets out of hand? I KNOW that is not what you want! Right?<p>I'm sure you have calmed down enough by now to realize that you cannot afford to put yourself in that position ever again! Besides, it is not emotionally healthy for you.<p>No more begging your wife either. Just focus on you and your own growth. Totally depend on God and cultivate your relationship with Him.<p>Like the others have said, she can't possibly see a future with that kid. She'll wake up, but you going over there and calling her outside her love den for a strife fest could definitely drive her away from you because it makes you appear to be insane and we all know you are NOT! You're probably the most sane one in the group right now just had a temporary lapse.<p>It will be okay. On the other hand, maybe you got through to her and gave her something to think about. You know, because you are fighting for her. It's something that I would want my man to do--fight for me. I admire your guts. <p>Just please don't ever do that again! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] You are stronger than that! (Never let the devil see you sweat! Keep the faith!) <<<<HUGS>>>><p>[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Kev,
Still smiling from the mental picture of you outside the window calling him.
Hey you are on the roller coaster, your in a dip, the good thing about this is you will be going back up soon, hold on.
She acts like she is 19 you say? Ya, my H gave OW valentines card said "You make me feel things I havnt felt in years" she made him feel "like a teenager in love" blah,blah
SHE is NOT 19, it will get weary being the oldest 19 year old.
Dont act like you are 19, you need to be the level headed one. It will end prepare yourself to be the most attractive option.
I wish my H would talk to you - he would say - "WHAT was I thinking"
Good Luck
PS you are not the only one who has done angry thins to other person. One lady here wrote that she sent a OW a plastic penis in a gift box and the note said - now that you have one of your own leave my husbands alone. hehehe
I have sent text mail to OW with a bible verse listed, when you look it up it says something like"she lead him like an ox to slaughter the whore" she never mentioned it to H so I dont know if it counts as LB - felt good though.(ya I know it wasnt right [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] )
I enjoy your posts.

BIN,<p>You're right, I wasn't entrusting my M to God that night. I think He's starting to get through to me. I've "felt" a shift since that night (from the very moment that I happened to see them driving- there's NO way that I should have run into them, but I did- why? I don't know).<p>I am becoming closer to God, and I want to get closer still. I'm praying that He'll give me strength, patience, compassion, and comfort through these times. I'm praying that He give WS CLARITY, compassion, the memories of what we had, and the realization that it can be so much more.<p>After crying myself to sleep for the second night in a row last night, I awoke with a new direction, with a little bit of resolve, and with a plan. I'm going to be the anti-LB for the next two months, and if nothing has changed for the better by the time that I have to verify my insurance selections (mid-December), then it's Plan B my own checking account, a fair division of our current debts/comittments, and no insurance for her. I'll have to check, but on MY insurance, a legal separation gives me the right to make changes to my plan within the calendar year....I'll have to call the school to verify she can do the same during the school year, I don't see why not. But even if not, I'm not really sure that should be my problem.<p>The clock is now ticking.<p>K<p>[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: kevco- ]</p>

Seeeeee!?
That's what I meant... You have been in prayer giving the whole situation over to the Lord and praying for clarity for WS! That is wonderful. Do you think the enemy is going to congratulate you and pat you on the back? Heck no! The enemy is going to keep putting images in front of you to get you to react emotionally.<p>I'm so sorry you are crying but just remember that God is keeping track of your every tear. He is going to turn your mourning into dancing for you, somehow, some way, some day. In the meantime, we just have to trust Him especially because we don't have all the answers.<p>The enemy wants us to care and worry and fret, but the Lord wants us to cast our cares on Him because He cares for us affectionately and watchfully.<p>My heartfelt prayers of agreement are with you today--for God's strength, compassion, and comfort to be with you. Unfortunately, the only way to get patience is to wait! Patience is a fruit of the Spirit. Fruit has to be cultivated and it takes time for it to grow... Hang in there, kiddo! You'll get through this, regardless.

Hi Kevco,
First I'd like to say that I am so sorry for the pain that you are going through. I know it's raelly tough and it sounds as though this is really consuming you. You have to let go for a while. I know I was there. I was literally driving myself crazy. I know you want your W back it's obvious to all of us how much you love her and are willing to do whatever it takes to prove it. You have to understand that she is not ready for that. You can't force her into falling back in love with you. You have gotten some really good advice from everyone that replied. My suggestion to you is decide whether you are going to stay in Plan A or Plan B. If it's Plan A remember that's about you to. Ease up a bit, back off a little. Don't be so available to her. She knows that you will be there for her. I like you did everything wrong that I possibly could in Plan A I whined, I cried, I LB'd big time, when I look back it was horrible I was a mess. I was up I was down. I truly never thught I would get through this or that my H would be back home. It's only been a week but things are going great. Know what he told me? When I started backing away from him and not calling is when he really wanted and missed me. I finally did give him an ultimatum b/c I couldn't do this any more and I had my mind made up to move on either way.
Kev, I guess what I am trying to say is that you have to try and move on a little bit. Yes you want your M to work we all want that, but right now your W is in the fog you can't rationalize with her. Give it time when you have to have contact with her be pleasant. No Lb's! We are here for you so come here to vent. Good luck to you I'm praying for you my friend.
C

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong> After crying myself to sleep for the second night in a row last night, I awoke with a new direction, with a little bit of resolve, and with a plan. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Good for you, K!!<p>It's always better to work from a plan and a position of strength instead of being tossed around by the whims and "passions" of a WS!<p>Stick to the plan, my friend. I know I "seem" like an "old-timer" to a youngster like yourself, but believe me, 5 months ago, I WAS A MESS!!! I was constantly being tossed around day after day with doubts, and fears (he'll NEVER come home), (he just "WALKED OUT" - How could I have known?). <p>I NEVER thought there was any hope that we could ever reconcile. And while we aren't yet, I can at least see some daylight ahead of us!! I don't see total "doom and gloom" in front of my path for the rest of my life. Even tho God told me from the first minute that my H was GONE that "I would be OK" I was still devastated, and lost, sad, depressed, confused, ________(you fill in the emotion) - had them all.<p>Now, at least, I KNOW there can be a plan. I don't have to just SIT and WAIT until "whatever is going to happen, happens." I can be proactive, and feel like the rest of my life has some direction, and I'm partially still in control of it!{/b]<p>This stuff works!! I'm still amazed, but it does!! My H left me a NOTE (too chicken to even tell me face-to-face!) and the note said to only converse through his atty. Waaaal, we've gotten past that, and we DO converse! We've even had dinner together once (this part is hard, cause he moved to another town 3 hours away, and SHE keeps him on a [b] VERY short leash!).<p>Keep learning, keep reading, keep praying, keep posting and asking for help with questions, answers, fears, whatever you need. Everyone is here to help, and it DOES help....just knowing that others have "been there..." I am absolutely convinced that i would have done incredibly DUMB things if I were not here! <p>Best of luck to you.....you'll be OK.<p>Lupo