Now I gonna take the bit between the teeth and duck.<p>The BS's seem to think the OW is some tart who would jump into bed with any man. She is not! We fell in 'love' over a period of 18 months working together in a pressure cooker. Remember how it happens?. I knew it was wrong but when someone is able to fill EN's that my W was unable to fill irrespective of my consistently communicating the fact and doing everything I could to help her. Remember my wife even suggested on many occassions that I go out and pay for it due to her lack of libido and feelings of frigidity. The condition was that she didnt know about it. Regardless, for seven odd years, I stayed totally loyal and completely understanding of her needs even reassuring her that it was not pushing me away. (little did I realise that it would however leave me vulnerable). And who knows maybe I filled some EN's of the OW, I would not be so vain as to assume so but I certainly helped her through some tough times as well.<p>I accept that BS's would feel angry toward the other but please dont forget that it is the BS's that contributed to the affair as well and the WS and the OW. Surely if some BS's stopped and accepted this, they would back off a bit. Remember, I have been there! <p>The lack of apparent rational consideration of this single point makes me question other aspects of the argument, especially with regard to saying anything now I chose to end the A and get back in touch with my family.<p>By the way, my wife's outlook has in the past 10 months changed due to her reclaimed levels of fitness (not that I ever thought she looked out of shape), getting some work (new people) and fortunately for me, with her increased levels of energy she is certainly meeting the EN's I wrongly replaced with the OW. And look what happens. I choose to end A because I have it all at home.<p>Let me tell you that my wife is feeling nothing but adoration. I love her and my children more than life itself and trust me that has been part of the consideration due to my feelings of guilt and shame.<p>The BS's need to think before they shoot me down because if they only direct their anger at the philanderor and the insignificant other, they are ignoring a significant reason for their partner straying in the first place.<p>Having said that, I have had no contact today, have thought about the OW many times but my resolve held true.<p>I made passionate love to my beautiful wife this morning, spent her day off with her at the movies and the afternoon flying a kite with my kids and yes I think I have it all at the moment, and dare I say, she doesnt have it too bad either!<p>Ok, let me have it!

Okay, you asked for it...<p>and I'm quoting Dr. Harley in my own paraphrased version, "Falling in love with someone other than your spouse has nothing to do with your unmet needs. It has everything to do with YOU not protecting yourself from your own weaknesses."

Aus, your OW probably is not a tart who would jump into bed with just any man. She may well be a nice person. BUT if she has not yet learned the MB principle of looking inside her marriage to get her needs met, and working on her H's needs, she'll continue to be unhappy and dissatisfied. And vulnerable to becoming emotionally involved with another man. And it is not only Harley, but most marriage therapists, who point out the very great danger of developing intimate friendships with other-sex people. <p>You said you fell in love over an 18 month period. Yet you also strongly imply that your interaction did start with sympathy and compassion; you both chose the dangerous and inappropriate road of sharing your marital problems with other-gender people whom you found attractive. That is a dynamite mix.<p>You say you have it all at home now, which is why you broke with OW. Do you see now that your wife's unmet needs led to her sexual withdrawal from you? As long as she felt her only value to you was sex, she was unwilling. Hence the cutting remarks, out of her own unacknowledged pain, that you should just go pay for it. Now that she has affirmed, through her job and her fitness activities, that she is a worthy, attractive woman, she can see her sexuality as part of the whole package and she is free to express it.<p>You ask why the BS only blames the infidel and somebody you describe as an insignificant other. Firstly, the "other" is never "insignificant". The "other" is always an active participant in the affair, and that makes his/her part in it very significant indeed. <p>Also, how much blame do you assign to the WS for his/her part in creating the conditions that led to the affair? From what you said, you clearly and often stated your need for more sex to your wife, over and over. Did you put the same amount of time and energy into meeting her needs for admiration and affection, and into showing her that she was a person in her own right, beyond your bedmate and the mother of your children? Were you sensitive to her feeling that her body was no longer quite so attractive after giving birth - cellulite, stretch marks, boobs a little droopy now?<p>These were obviously needs she had, and their going unmet led to her loss of sexual interest in you. I can say "obvious" because now that her needs are being met, she's sexy again.<p>It's great that you're putting time and energy now into meeting your wife's (and children's) need for family commitment and quality time. You're reaping a rich reward for that. Love grows with what it feeds on.

Wow, jsutstartingover said exactly what I wanted to say to you,aus.
My situation and yours are very different,aus. My h was in a sort of MLC and never vocalized his feelings to avoid conflict.The conflict that he was afraid of was all in his head...we would have dealt with it...he knew I would do anything for him but it was "easier" to just try to get himself out of it and what happened is it fed on itself.He saw only the negative aspects of our M and I am not saying I was perfect.But he was not a good husband or father,either,even pre-A. I loved him in spite of all that,I am way too tolerant.
He had everything here in this house to "make him happy",he chose to wallow in feelings of
Is this all there is?" Sex was not ever a problem for us, we have always been great,except when he was not here in his head. And as far as ENs, his were met,to a much larger extent than mine. The Cs, his and ours, all say it was a miracle that I was not the one who strayed. Because if it were really about ENs,it would have been me.<p>And now, for you, read carefully what jso said. I was thinking about this last night before bed. Now that your W is feeling better about herself she is able to meet your need for SF. Did you maybe miss that during the A,in the 18 months you were falling in love and somewhat focused on another woman? If this had happened 18 months ago, would you still have fallen in love with OW?<p>Your Ws remark about you going and paying for it hurt you,no doubt. But I can see how she felt,and why she said it.It's hard to feel sexy when your spouse is disconnected from you...and you were disconnected from her, no matter how great an H you say you were. And she probably didn't know what she needed to get back to where she wanted to be,how could she tell you? Or did she tell you and maybe you didn't quite hear her or understand?<p>I don't think your OW is a terrible person but someone who is sad and searching. Searching in a very inappropriate manner...our OW was very unhappily M and wouldn't leave her H,before the A(her 2nd btw) because she is "not the kind of person who can be alone". She was looking to be rescued. She has since left her M and is still calling every couple of months or so to get back in. My H finds her pathetic...it was lust wrapped up in a pretty bow to make it more palatable to each of them,so they wouldn't feel like rutting idiots.He knows that now, she is still in the fantasy. Are you the first A your OW had and do you think you will be the last? As long as she remains in her unhappy M, I wonder about that.<p>Really,bottom line is this,for ME, if the M is so bad and a person is SO unhappy, they should end the M and move on. And if it's is NOT so bad as to leave it, they should commit,BEFORE an A, and try to make it what it should be.The truth here(and I suspect for you,as well) is that it WASN'T bad enough to leave pre-A,for my H.He made it worse in his own head,after meeting OW,and managed to blame me for everything that went wrong for all the years of our M.Took his selfish,recovering alcoholic self right out of the picture. He questioned what we had and that led to doubt. NOW, he realizes what he took for granted.But this after a year + of therapy and self discovery.
Can you guys get into some counseling...I worry that,if things in the SF dept go into a slump, as they do in a long term M, you could backslide,especially if your W doesn't know what to look for.

No one have blamed just the infidel, most especially, on this site. However, I, as the BS, will take more than my share of the blame for the state of the marriage pre-A. Did I know that H was unhappy??? NO WAY. If he had communicated something to me, would I have tried to fix things? YES. He never gave me the opportunity. The affair has two components which are the WS AND THE OP. Does the spouse consent to this relationship before it "happens"? NO. Therefore, how can blame be placed on the BS for a relationship that is a secret?<p>The BS can assume blame for the marriage only. Bottom line, we all have choices.

You have gotten some very good feed back here. An affair is soley the responsibility of the WS and the OP. The state of the marriage at the time of the affair is shared equally by the BS and the WS. So if you had at leasta 50% responsibility for the state of your marriage, you had no more right to an affair then your wife.<p>If you had Plan A'd your wife BEFORE choosing an affair, she probably would have had the same turn around that she has had now.<p>While the OP may not be a tart, she certainly did choose a very selfish path. This is not judgemental this is the truth.<p>I have been here on MB for several months now. What I have noted is that just about every BS on here has talked many many times about thier contrution to the state of their marriage at the time of the affair. They are painfully aware of their contribution to the state of the marriage. One of the basic principles of MB is for both spouses to go deep within themselves to find out how they contributed. BOTH the BS and the WS must do this for true recovery to occur.<p>Note that nowhere did I say that the BS shares in responsibility for the affair. That is a choice made totally independently by the WS and the OP. Don't forget that your wife had unmet needs too. She did not choose to have an affair.<p>I know from experience that there are better, healthier, ways to handle unmet ENs then having affair. If BOTH spouses will not work on a marriage, then the ONLY moral thing to do is to leave the marriage BEFORE starting to date.<p>Since you have never been cheated on, you have no idea of the depth of the hurt it causes.<p>And just an aside, it is very possible and not uncommon for a WS to have an affair (sometimes many affair - read addictive behavior) dispite the marriage seeming to be a good one. In these cases the WS never shares their personal problems with the BS. They simply choose to address them outside of the marriage. In these cases the BS has absolutely no responsibility for what lead to the affair.<p>just my 2 cents.<p>Z

ausinfidel

I do believe that people here are not trying to beat you up. Instead they are trying to challenge you and get you to dig deep into yourself. <p>Why not share your contributions to the state of your marriage that led to your choosing to have an affair? Your wife is not here to talk about her contributions. But you are. And because of that we are concerned about you coming to terms with your contributions.<p>As for the OW. She may not be a tart, but she did contribute to doing a terrible wrong to her husband and to your wife. Those are things that are not easily forgiven.<p>Z

Aus,<p>My $.02 worth: In one of the several books I've read in the last three weeks on this subject (don't remember which), it is suggested that EACH partner in the M is 100% responsible for the failure of the marriage. <p>You are 100% responsible for your failure to adequately communicate your unhappiness and emotional needs to you W (even though you DID try, maybe you should have tried something else-besides an A). Also, you are 100% responsible for your actions (or lack of) leading to the EA and PA.<p>Likewise, your W is 100% for her failure to realize that you were unhappy, and for failing to hear your pleas to meet your EN. She is also responsible for not communicating her EN to you so that you could meet them (and probably reap the benefits).<p>If you want to go still further, then the OW and her H are ALSO 100% responsible in the same ways. Their responsibilities left OW vulnerable to an A (as you were).<p>Had ANY ONE OF YOU FOUR made just a couple of minor adjustments in your behaviors, this whole mess may have been avoided.<p>Please don't hear what people are saying is that you are the SOLE cause of the state of your M. Rather, you are the sole cause of you ACTIONS (which includes the actual A).<p>Good luck, I know from experience that yours is a very uncomfortable position.<p>Kev

Sorry ausinfidel but you're thread has made me very angry. <p>Ok, so you had unmet EN's, don't we all? The difference being that when my needs were unmet, I tried talking about it. I re-evaluated myself and I fixed some things that were wrong with me. I went into this marriage with the idea that it is forever. And when the going got tough, I didn't run to another man.<p>My H works 12 hour days, 6 days a week. He wasn't here when I was ill, when the kids needed homework help, when my mother was dying. I shopped for Christmas and birthdays alone. I planed parties, went to school conferences, hell I was the president of the PTA and I worked part time also. When he came home, dinner was always ready, the house was clean, the children were happy. His wish was my command. But that doesn't mean I was emotionally fulfilled. I spent many nights alone in my bed wondering why he didn't want to "be" with me.<p>Unlike my H and other WS's, I stuck to my marriage vows. It would have been easy to stray. I also worked in a "pressure cooker" with all men, attractive men, men who were not only flirtatious but down right eager. I never considered it. I never tried to fill my loneliness with another man, either emotionally or physically.<p>I'm sorry but I see no justification for a married person having an affair. I would rather he had divorced me if he was unhappy than to cheat as he has done. What kind of morals allow a person to break their marriage vows? I certainly don't understand it.<p>When a couple is married, the only thing they have between them, that no one else can touch, is the physical love they share. Infidelity takes that away and makes it into just another piece of life. <p>I'm not sure I'll ever recover from his betrayal. I'm not sure he will ever touch me without bringing thoughts of HER to me. I'm not sure I'll ever accept his answer as to why he was late, without wondering if it's the truth. The only thing I am sure of, is that I did my best in our marriage and I will never accept the blame for his A. He made that choice, not I. But I was the one hit by the shrapnel and left with a wound that may never heal.

well Aus -- try telling your wife.
What do you think she's gonna think of your little sweetheart?<p>From what I understand you met OW five years ago -- went physical almost 8 months later. So you've been in a physical affair for 4 years. <p>I'll bet your wife will feel adored and cherished after she hears that. And no anger towards that sweet OW of yours. <p>What planet are you on? I'm a WS and there's not that many clouds in my sky.<p>Its not fair for you to continue on without telling her whats really been happening in your marriage.

Aus - nearly every BS here understands they've been responsible for creating the conditions in their marriage. Recognize the BS had unmet needs as well. Some people choose to be unfaithful, and others don't. That's the difference.<p>For months I've wanted to work on our marriage, but my wife won't allow it. Many others here are in a similar position. That's why you'll see some angry responses. Apparently, you are not putting your unaware wife in that position, and that's great. If you can live with the secret, be absolutely sure your wife never finds out, the OW causes no problems, and no problems arise in your other work relationships, maybe that's great as well. Certainly it's the path of least resistance. On the other hand, you will have "gotten away with it" once, and maybe that makes it even easier the next time. If your wife can't hold you accountable, have you really made a full re-commitment to your marriage?<p>Sorry, your question was about BS perception of the OP. In my case there are 4, so I have trouble seeing them as individually significant. They're just entities to me, with names attached. They're part of a cheating subculture, which I don't think applies in your case. But I can speak about my perceptions of others I have known, who get involved with married people.<p>To me, the OP is engaging in self-destructive behavior because most of those relationships are going nowhere. It's not the only kind of self-destructive behavior that people get caught up in, but this one is very damaging and significant. If she keeps chasing married men, she'll never develop a healthy relationship for herself. Seen it several times. <p>Another thing, I'm one of those who believes the marriage vows are sacrosanct, and the OP undermines those. That's a choice. There are other people the OP could have developed a relationship with. Again, it's not the only kind of nasty thing that people do, but it's a big one and right now, it's hurting me and my kids personally. But I have to say, I had little respect for OPs even before I discovered my wife's infidelity.<p>I expect my wife's OMs have some good points. Everyone has good points. But these people are not trustworthy, that's how I see it.<p>- Tom<p>[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: tmmx ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ausinfidel:
<strong><p>I accept that BS's would feel angry toward the other but please dont forget that it is the BS's that contributed to the affair as well and the WS and the OW. Surely if some BS's stopped and accepted this, they would back off a bit. Remember, I have been there! <p>The lack of apparent rational consideration of this single point makes me question other aspects of the argument, especially with regard to saying anything now I chose to end the A and get back in touch with my family.<p>!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>aus,<p>I think I am starting to see a pattern here. Whenever someone disagrees with you, they are automatically discredited by you as an "angry, biased BS." However, in order to discredit someone rationally, you must do it based on the FACTS and LOGIC - you aren't doing that, you don't even try. <p>You can't discredit someone based on "bias" or because they disagree with you - EVERYONE has bias. Especially since you are probably the LEAST objective person when it comes to your own situation. Should we, therefore, disregard everything you say on that basis?<p>Further, while you are so busy trying to discredit anyone who disagrees with you, have you not noticed that there are SEVERAL WS' who are disagreeing with you and making the SAME points as the BS? <p>And one last point, since your OW is such a fine upstanding citizen, why not bring her home so she can also be "friends" with the wife and kids?

ausin,<p>I know this is going to be hard to believe but I'm going to stick up for you on this one (to a degree). I think one thing all of us forget (especially me) is that before we came here a lot of us didn't really know how to get our needs met. We didn't know how to ask for those needs or ask how to meet our spouses needs. The real work is learning where each of us went wrong and fixing that.<p>Others have made some valid points for you to think about and I won't dwell on them except to say that now that you are learning, what you do with the information is the "work" you hear us talk about.<p>ausin-"I accept that BS's would feel angry toward the other but please dont forget that it is the BS's that contributed to the affair as well and the WS and the OW. Surely if some BS's stopped and accepted this, they would back off a bit. Remember, I have been there!"<p>This is where I have to disagree with you. I will use my own personal experience and not the teachings of MB. About 7 or 8 years ago I put myself in a situation the could have led to a ONS. There was physical contact and before it escalated out of control I told OW (who by the way was my W's friend - damn, I'm scum.) that I would not engage in intercourse. I thought that as long as I did not cross that line I wouldn't be cheating. Well the line was getting close and I was actually considering it when I was overcome by the most horrible, evil feeling I ever had. I knew that what I was doing wasn't right for me. I never did "it" but it was still cheating. Even though my W had not been meeting my needs that night was not her fault. She was not there and therefore had no part in what happened. I could have very well took it a step further. I could have never put myself in that situation. Regardless of my happiness in my M at the time I (and OW) were the only one with a choice that night.<p>A few years after that night I became friends with another W at the gym. We did not get emotionally involved but there was a strong physical attraction. It was obvious that things could happen if we let it. I was still not getting my needs met at home but I made the right decision this time. I never even let it get close because I learned from the last time. Again, that was my choice. W or marriage had nothing to do with it. <p>I guess my point is that YOU were the one that made the choice to have the A. Yes, your W shares the responsibility for the condition of the M. If you are not getting what you need then it is YOUR responsibility to show and teach your W. I know that you said you have tried but you should seek out alternative methods of communicating that to her. You probably came across as nagging as I did. If you don't fix this problem then you're going to be there again just like I was. <p>Now that everybody knows what a piece of cr@p I was I hope this story did you a little bit of good cause it sure made me feel disgusting.<p>
who

Aus,<p>Within the marriage there's a mutual agreement that the relationship is exclusive - it's monogamous. That agreement gets broken when one spouse has an affair. Normally (unless you're a swinger, partake in group sex, etc), an affair isn't negotiated - meaning the partner hasn't been asked if it's ok with them - the exclusivity agreement is simply broken. Bad enough but the affair can carry some very nasty consequences for the BS. <p>If you spend any time on these boards you'll realise that some of these, for example are nervous/physical breakdowns or worse, being the recipient of an unwanted STD. It often means the painful breakdown of the family and extended family. It can also mean the conception of unwanted children and dealing with the those very complex issues. Whatever. Affairs have a destructive power on people who weren't asked, weren't told and weren't involved with them.<p>For you, you've justified your actions because of the neglect your wife has shown you. Your saying she's partly to blame. Ok, but by this argument, you're also saying that every BS who ever contracted an STD as a result of an unagreed to affair, deserved it. I think not.<p>Within the compass of your exclusivity agreement (marriage vows) it was your responsibility to tell your wife before you entered into the affair. If she agreed to it, then that really is her issue. Otherwise, everything else is pure fog. It's about you wanting to enjoy a forbidden fruit and turning a blind eye to the consequences. You were lucky - many are not.<p>However, none of us are perfect and we can all fail. I had my affair after my wife had two of her own - but my affair was my choice, not hers. It was as a consequence of my failings and needy, selfish behaviour, not hers. It was my choice to break my agreement, my wife wasn't given the choice. I'm lucky - there are no STDS, no unwanted babies and my marriage survived.<p>Thanks to everybody here, they helped me when I was only a BS and they put me right when I stumbled.<p>Humbly,<p>- Freddy<p>[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: Freddy ]<p>[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: Freddy ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ausinfidel:
<strong><p>I accept that BS's would feel angry toward the other but please dont forget that it is the BS's that contributed to the affair as well and the WS and the OW. Surely if some BS's stopped and accepted this, they would back off a bit. Remember, I have been there! <p>The lack of apparent rational consideration of this single point makes me question other aspects of the argument, especially with regard to saying anything now I chose to end the A and get back in touch with my family.
resolve held true.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Warning - here comes a vent! I am soooo sick of hearing "why do you only blame the OP?" Totally not true. The fact that my husband was HALF responsible (it takes 2) is unfortunately burned into my brain with a very large and painful branding iron. I will certainly never forget it. He is totally responsible for betraying our vows, lying to me, inviting that piece of trash into our life blah blah. The xOW is responsible for being a stupid ho who can't find a man of her own so she feels justified in sleeping with someone else's and doing everything in her power to try and split us up when we got back together. She is also responsible for being an evil person who decided to stalk ME when she got her sorry a** dumped. the crucial difference is that I LOVE my H and I married him. She blew into my life like an anthrax laden piece of junk mail. I want to keep my marraige together, so I have to forgive him. That in no way absolves him of any responsibility, nor did he ever make any excuses for his behavior. I have no such motivations towards the OW, nor any obligations of forgiveness towards her. I tried the whole "forgive the OP thing". Didn't work. made me stressed. Much easier to have passive hatred (don't think about her all that much anymore except on the board). And it's tons of fun to make fun of her! Hmm. the more I think about it, the mor she really was like anthrax. I'd heard of the disease, knew it was nasty and deadly, but figured it was nothing I had to worry about. Then suddenly it was on my doorstep and something to think about every day. Luckily we caught it early enough to still treat it and live.<p>[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: fairydust ]</p>

I for one am tired of blame and justifications on both sides.<p>If you keep doing the same thing...if you keep singing the same song...you'll continue to get the same result.<p>FACT: EN's on both sides of marriage were not being met.<p>FACT: State of marriage was no longer in intimacy or conflict, but in withdrawal.<p>FACT: WS and OP allowed themselves to move into a situation SELFISHLY...they put their needs above their familys' needs.<p>This is not about blame or justifiction it is about choice and consequence. BS had no choice in the situation. BS was lied to. BS was betrayed...and now WS and OP get self-righteous and ask "How dare you be angry. How dare you be upset. Don't your realize that I did this because .....(fill-in-the-blank)."<p>I am one BS who will no longer accept blame or justification. I have moved on. I no longer exhibit that which I did before which led to the environment in our marriage that seemed to 'give' WS permission to have an affair.<p>DO YOU GET THAT? You gave yourself permission to have an affair. BS did not cause affair to happen and is not to BLAME.<p>Look at the "MAN IN THE MIRROR." You are responsible for your half of the relationship. Quit trying to make us responsible for your half too.

BTW...my first reaction was<p>WHY the **** NOT?<p>but, I've come a long way as they say...

Hi Aus,<p>I had a post to you last night and lost it. You have been on my mind today. <p>Here goes:<p>Why just blame the infidel? No that is not true.
Please let me explain. In our case, the WS met the OW on-line. Both were supposedly looking for a 'friend'. Really both were looking for sex. OW for her reasons and WS for his. They were separate reasons but joined in this common quest. <p>WS convinced himself that his W (me) was to blame for all his inadequacies. W was to blame for the failure of the marriage and while yes, the W was a good mother and W, WS concluded that W did not 'love' the WS. Why? Because the W could not and would not give the WS everything he wanted. Oh the W tried but finances prevented most of what he wanted and W could not work more hours (W already worked 70+ per week and kept up with household chores). Ws was doing less and less. <p>Was any of this true? To a certain degree yes. In what way? The W was working too much. The WS was diliberatly going deeper in debt and the W had to work even hard to juggle the finances to make ends meet and they were getting harder and harder to meet. All this time, the WS kept convincing himself and now the OW that the W was to blame and that OW was the answer to his problems. The OW support the WS by promising everything the W could not provide. Money, travel, freedom, education, etc. In return the OW asked 1st for friendship and sex. Then she asked for money.......<p>After this went on for about 6 months, the WS realized that the W was not totally to blame. Most of the blame resided on the Ws's outlook. The W was still home still trying to take care of the family, still working and finding it increasingly difficult to make ends meet. Now the W's needs were not getting met at all for many years. But hey, that's ok right? No. however, W's issues took back burner for a long time. <p>The W learned about MB. The W already knew about how a good relationship should be. We both had good examples around us. Despite all, WS refused to work on the M. Around the 6 months period things were getting a bit old with the ol ow. Now with the fog starting to lift, the WS saw that the OW mayhave been full of hot air. Her promises were just that. Yes she had money but she was also on the brink of foreclosing her home. Why? Because she wanted to teach Her H a lesson. Oh it got getter. but that's another story in itself. <p>In the meantime, the W was looking a bit better to the WS. The W was making it on her own but very hurt in her heart. Physical tolls were now being inflicted on the W. A misscarriage on top of anxiety attacks helped send the W over the edge. Suicide was a considered option by the BS. The WS eventually learned that his family was not as bad as he had made it out to be. Yet the OW kept reminding him that his family was indeed the worst thing that ever happened to him and that the only road to happiness was via OW. <p>The W? Well, she made some changes. Not much but some. The WS claimed to have seen great changes in the W but couldn't name them. Hm..... The W apologized for the pieces she recognized and showed a willing spirit. Is the wife blameless? No. But neither is she completely to blame. <p>So the WS acknowledged that the W no longer gave the WS a reason to leave his M. Hm.... this angered OW and now was are still dealing with the rememants of Mrs. Psyco Babble Rabbit. How hurtful to call someone this. Yes it is. But for the pain she and WS inflicted on me, I would say she is getting off relatively easy. In the Biblical times, they would both be dead. Not my interpretation either! <p>We live in a much more forgiving world. Bible principles do allow for the mate to forgive the spouse and move on. However, there is no biblical provision made to forgive the OP. <p>I do not believe that people here blame only the Ws. We do recognized it is a shared blame but the blame is not always as each side sees it. <p>In time, Aus you may have a different perspective. Give yourself time to assimulate this info. If our words are too harsh to bear. Skip it. More than likely you are not ready to digest it yet. Check with Trueheart, SNL, STL and other male WSs. They have had their share of strong words from themselves and others. <p>JMHO,
L.

AUS,<p>I will get flamed good for my input, but hey I don't care. <p>Would like to know the answer to a couple of questions. Don't answer if you are not comfortable with doing so.<p>I don't really know your background. Only been lurking here for a very short time. Are you still talking to your OW? Do you love her or have you just been using her since your wife wouldn't take care of your needs? Does she love you? <p>Call me curious. <p>Amazed
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I gonna try to respond to em now!<p>bintheredunthat, <p>I would agree with you however I did seek to address the weaknesses by communicating with my wife.<p>Juststartingover,
My relationship with the OW did not start out as anything but boss/worker who in fact thought I was tough. There was no intimacy, (ie i didnt notice she existed as a woman - just an employee) for at least 15mths. The sharing of problems came in the course of the A. I met all of my wifes needs. The issues she had were physiological because as I said when we did we did good!<p>With regard to the need for sex. Big Wrong! I was very comfortable masterbating in bed beside my wife. Her body... well lets just say it is and has always been magnificent. Even when pregnant I loved how she looked and the issues only started after the third child. I can honestly say that on many occassions with the OW I would fantasise that I was with my incredible wife. Looks, intellectually, physically etc, the OW was NOTHING in comparison to my wife. It was just that I felt she wanted me! Go figure. <p>Wounded2673
My wife is only now starting to meet my EN's wrt feeling wanted but a start is all I needed to see the light.
"would I have fallen in love" Absolutely not! Not possible.
My W's issues with sex were often spoken of. I was very understanding and reassuring. Remember 7 odd years of maybe once a month after almost having to beg. Seduction was out of the q. Frigidity is outside the bounds of MB and i am sure there is a wealth of reading as to why it occurs. I looked into, accepted and worked to help her feel good about herself. <p>Terrified,
If my wife visited this site 7 years (sic) ago she would know that I all but told her that my LB was in o/d, my EN's were not being met and the readings would have told her what was next. I do not blame her for it being secret (but even there I could mount a defence). I say she contributed in a substantial way to it ever happening in the first place.<p>Sex with the OW was nothing short of ordinary. Maybe 3 times in 5 years would it have even matched a boring night at home with a quicky before sleep with my wife.<p>It was the feeling wanted that made all the difference. The OW made me feel wanted and she was special in her own way for that reason. I regret ever getting into a R with her because we have ruined a great friendship.