Hi,<p>How is this friend? Are you able to get a pulse from her for the current attitude status? Looks like she is a big time waffler and willing to make your life shear misery until she comes around. <p>Kinda what my H did. Yet I know a woman can use this kind of time to really try to twist a man up in knots. Vensuian thingy......women tend to this this even in the best of times. Bad tendancy, I know. <p>You can be H smart about it though. You admit that she is not being a mom there for her kids. Her kids can see that? Now here is where I think your allies lie....<p>1. Your kids. Help them tell their mom what they think. You don't put words in their mouth, just encourage open communication. If they are shy, encourage it with you. My son eventually wrote a 4 sentence letter to his dad telling him what he thought. That little guy (6 at the time) did in 4 sentences what I could not do in 4 months. Hit his heart. H still has the letter. It was my sons idea. What I did do was encourage him to ask his dad when my son would ask me questions. I would give some of the answers but defer the rest to his dad. My son actually said he was ashamed of asking his father those questions since his dad should know better. Oh yea, you bet, I shared those words with my H. At first he accused me of putting words in my son's mouth. H knew better but his fogese logic told him to find a blame point so he did. I let H blame me and said, I wish I had put those words in his little mind but I did not. <p>2. Take a pulse by pulling in your resources. See if her friend will share info with you. Pay attention. Just listen. You may share what you have done in behalf of your family, if you want or think you should. Remember that some or all of what you tell this friend may get back to your W so choose wisely.<p>3. Then step back and watch. You may have to repeat this scenario several times. <p>4. No guarantees it will work but it may help you reach the point you need to move on or move her to move to catch up with your family. I personally believe these steps if executed carefully will produce some sort of movement. Either way though so be careful. Make sure you can take either result. <p>Take Care,
L.

Orchid,<p> 2. Take a pulse by pulling in your resources. See if her friend will share info with you. Pay attention. Just listen. You may share what you have done in behalf of your family, if you want or think you should. Remember that some or all of what you tell this friend may get back to your W so choose wisely.<p> I learned this mistake the hard way. I talked to this friend and yes. Every word I told her got back to her. I don't talk to her anymore. She is the person that I mentioned in my other post. I told you the main stuff that was pasted in those conversations.<p>4. No guarantees it will work but it may help you reach the point you need to move on or move her to move to catch up with your family. I personally believe these steps if executed carefully will produce some sort of movement. Either way though so be careful. Make sure you can take either result. <p> This friend already told me that she isn't coming back. My spouse told me that in Feb. She said that she gave it all the chance that she could.<p>Indy

Hi Indy,<p>Well my take (I hope you get other opinions) is that if she is expecting you to do stuff (take care of the kids, get the D, etc.) that she is not ready to put her money where her mouth is. <p>Actions here speak louder than words. She says she is going to pick up the kids but does not or is late. She is not just doing stuff to you but to your children and others. She says things to you and her friend(s) but acts different. You are not the only one she is doing this do. In time others will not be as tolerant as you have been and eventually a reckoning will happen. <p>Then what? Will she disown them like she has disowned her family? You can do this to the world and eventually you end up all alone. Indy, watch what she is doing. Does it look like that is the direction she is headed for? If yes, then all you can do at this point is watch and protect your family. The sad piece is that you and your children may have to just watch. At least for now. <p>Just don't let her pull your strings. She has tried and will try some more. That is a bad trait women have. I'd like to blame it on Eve when God said "and you will crave for your H and he will dominate you". In some cases this is true unfortunately it also teaches women how to be sneaky to get what they want from their H's. <p>hmmm..... we vensuians can be an evil bunch if we put our minds to it...... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Orchid,<p> Well my take (I hope you get other opinions) is that if she is expecting you to do stuff (take care of the kids, get the D, etc.) that she is not ready to put her money where her mouth is. <p> I would love to here your veiw on this. I need to go off line for about 20 mins. I will be back.<p>Indy

Orchid,<p> I am back now.<p>Indy

Orchid,<p> You know what. I forgot my manners earlier. How was your day? I also didn't update my day, so here it is.<p> My lawyer's office called today. They asked about setting up a time for me to see him about what was covered in our last meeting. I also asked about her support garnishment. It passed right over all of our heads. The garnishment paperwork was suppose to be done by her lawyer, but she lost her awhile back. That is the reason why I haven't been getting checks from the county. I had to get the info for it and will have the thing filed with the county by the end of the week. I wonder how she will take that. That might help things I think. She will have no money with the exception of what the OM will give her. I just thought I would update my day.<p>Indy

Hi Indy, <p>I am fine. I was at work kinda late so I missed your last post until now. Thanks for asking. I actually made it through the d/d (or d/night) anniversary without as much pain as I thought. Man a whole year!!! YUCK. <p>So you will be getting the paperwork for the back pay. That will help out. Funny how finances have a way of waking people up. All that love, in-love talk, ok talk, now put your 'money' where your mouth is buddy..... he he he... let's see if the OM is willing to part with the green stuff. This is putting love to a test. More tests will come later. I mean why should the OM be exempt from life? Let him pick up all the tabs. <p>Am I getting mean spirited? Hmmph... maybe but I resent seeing good people being run through the ringer. You know? It is just not fair. <p>By the way, how are the kids doing? Have they said anything to anyone? Grandma, teacher, friend, aunt, uncle, etc.????? Mine wrote that letter and talked a bit to his cousin and to me. I kept encouraging him to talk. I think it is helpful. <p>Take Care,
L.

Orchid,<p> How are things for you today? It has been a long day for me. First work just wasn't very good today. I just really needed to be able to go home today and it really drives me nuts not to be able to go there. I would have really loved walking into the door and smell dinner. I don't know. It is really hard not to call to hear her voice. I caught myself dialing my old home number today. It was hard to hear the disconnect message. I feel disconnected from my family and myself. <p> I talked to my lawyer's office today. I asked if they got the information that was needed to get the garnishment done. That was hard. I know that the kids need the money. I just feel bad being the bad guy. I have had some times today were I have had to will myself to keep myself to believeing myself worthless. Is this normal?<p>Indy<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Orchid,<p> I have had two days of no contact and it is hard not to call her. I am going to try and start getting the stuff ready for her. It will take about 3 weeks for the withholding order to go through. I am wondering what her reaction will be to that. <p> I had a long talk with my mom about all of this last night. Her and the rest of the family are telling me to move on and to get the divorce overwith. They just don't understand. I told her about the conversation with my WS concerning the D process. I told her that she would be the one to complete the process. Was I wrong to do that?<p>Indy

Hello Indy<p>I have been reading your postings. And I have to say you sound just like a very wonderful man that I know. My husband was in the same situation as yourself. Married a woman with a child. they had two children together (a boy and a girl). She had numerous affairs and finally left him for another man. She would call him constantly, always wanting to change pick up times for the kids. (oops forgot to mention when she left my husband she turned her back on all three kids ages 4,3, and 5 mos)She never got anywhere on time. She dragged out the divorce. My husband was just like you he wanted his family to stay together. He overlooked many of late nights at the bar (on her part). When the divorce was finally settled she got her daughter from a previous man, and my husband got his two kids. He felt the same as you that she was trying to erase the fact that they existed. She would go a year at a time without seeing the kids. When my husband I got married, she didn't like it one bit. I am like you if she is suppose to pick up the kids at a certain time than she needs to be there. If not we would leave and do what we needed to do. Stick to your guns on this. Children need stability. They need to know when mom is going to be there and she needs to be there. Unfortunately you can't make a mother want to see or love her children. My husband and his parents (he lived with them until we married) would change their schedules whenever she called so there wouldn't be conflict. Me on the other hand bluntly told her to be there on time like the papers say or forget it. We have a life and it didn't revolve around her. So you stick to your guns.<p>Anyway I just wanted to let you know that there are other people out there just like you. And you will get thru this. I am sorry to say this but I agree with your parents to go ahead with the divorce. I wouldn't say that normally but I see to much of what my husband went thru in what you are going thru.<p>My husband and I now have custody of all three children and have been married for 8 years now. There is someone out there for you. I know this will probably make some people mad but I know what my husband went thru and in reading your posts it is like dejavu. Again if I have offended anyone with my thoughts I am sorry I just wanted to let you know there is a light at the end of the tunnel. My husband saw it.

lovehimdeeply,<p> Thanks for sharing your husband's story with me. I have tried to think about the divorce and telling myself that get it over with. I told her back in Jan that if she wanted the divorce then she needs to get it. I will not push it. It seems so funny that when they have control they are fine, but if you even move alittle bit to protect yourself they get really mad. Thanks for you words of support. I would ask you to post more often on my other thread.<p>Indy

Dear Indy, <p>Where are my manners?!?!? You posted a question and I did not respond. I apologize for not responding sooner.<p>The decision to let your W make good on her D threat is yours. I let my family and friends know that these things were my decisions and I asked for their support. I pretty much got it. I don't have reason to complain in that dept. If my H was a cooperative as they were, we'd be recovered. So I agree with your stance. <p>Since so many days have passed, how are you doing now?<p>Hugz,
L.<p>[ December 08, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

Orchid,<p> It is good to hear from you. Things have been kind of crazy around here with everyone sick and all. Check out my other thread if you would like a recent update on my sit.<p>Indy