DLM,<p>I have read several of your posts and value your opinion. I would ask you to consider my dilemma and comment.<p>I have been married for 13 yrs. We have one son age 11 and by all outward appearances seemed to be a model family. I am a Christian and have been since before we were married. I discovered in May of this year, through an anonymous letter, that my wife has been having an affair for over two years. Long story short, I found forgiveness and tried to move on with what I have learned to be plan a. I did a pretty lousy job of it because I am absolutely obsessed with having my W see the A as I do. I can not have any respect for a man who can carry on an affair for two years. He sent her home to me everyday. I won&#8217;t go into great detail here but my mind is locked, there is no way I will ever think he can be a good man. My morals and principals and honor say he is a weak piece of !@#$. I know this is a major LB thing, but I can live with it. I am not cut out for this love and understand until the fog lifts. I see things as they are and welcome constructive criticism. <p>Anyway, to the question. My W has now moved out and it looks like we will divorce. My church is praying hard and I am open to the changed hearts the Lord may provide, but I am also moving on in my mind. I know this is way to early to worry about OM being part of my son&#8217;s life, my wife is a good person (I think) and a good mom, but what do I tell my son? We have not told him anything of the A yet. I have this tremendous need to tell my son what kind of man this person is. I cannot allow him to influence our son without knowing what he did. I don&#8217;t want to do this just to make myself feel better. My son as accepted the Lord (two weeks before d-day, the Lord was preparing me) and I am raising him to be an honorable man. I will tell my son of my mistakes before he starts dating and relating with woman but my immediate concern is if this man becomes part of his life, what do I do?<p>Please Mothers, I need some good solid advise here. My pastor is a young man and is seeking the advice of others. I really want to do the right thing.<p>Peace.

Welcome to MB NeedtoKnow. I'm sorry for the circumstance in which you were brought here.<p>I am not a mom, unfortunetly. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] But we do have plenty of mom AND dads here that I'm sure have faced this delimna. I'm sure they will respond to you soon.<p>WAT (Worthatry) instantly comes to mind because he too is a BS with custody of his son and may be faced with a similar circumstance. He's a very respected and wise man, well versed in the MB principals. Hopefully you'll be hearing from him.<p>God Bless,
Jo<p>[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

need2know,<p>I think it is critical that you tell him the truth, in a modified age-appropriate manner, of course. He needs to know that this kind of behavior is destructive and very unacceptable in the eyes of God. Otherwise he will grow up thinking that this behavior must be acceptable since his dad and other role models did not tell him otherwise. That would be a grave disservice to him. Think how confusing that would be to a young child, especially a Christian. To hear one thing in church and to see quite another in practice.<p>Dana<-----------mother of 2 sons<p>[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</p>

As a child of divorce which involved infidelity...let me say the worst thing you can do is to 'characterize' the OM. Let your son develop his own opinion on the OM's character. That being said, you do not have to downplay WHAT your W did or what OM did. In the eyes of God is is wrong.<p>Please focus on actions not character...the most hurtful thing I remember from those times (and I was 11 when it all came to pass) was the negative things they said about each other. <p>Trying

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TryingAgain:
<strong>
Please focus on actions not character...the most hurtful thing I remember from those times (and I was 11 when it all came to pass) was the negative things they said about each other. <p>Trying</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I agree completely with TA. I would just stick to the facts and not add any character assassination because that may cause your son to see him in a sympathetic light with you being the attacker. He absolutely has to know the truth and that the truth is very bad, though. I would just lay out the facts and tell him what the Bible says about these actions. He will understand what kind of man the OM is.<p>Another thing your son may experience is a high degree of resentment against the OM for "moving in on" his mother. My sons were horrified when I started dating after my H left me and were exceptionally rude to my date. [now my new H] My sons explained to me that since Dad was gone, they were the "men" in charge and this new guy was an interloper moving in on their mother. I have heard this same thing from other women with sons. <p>It was a huge surprise to me because I am an independent career woman and don't see myself as needing the "protection," as it were, of my boys!<p>[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</p>

thanks for your advice. i will pray long and hard before proceeding. this is a very hard thing to face. i don't want my motives to be anything other then the best interest of my child. please keep me in prayer.<p>joy.

thank you trying.
yes, i only know of the man's actions. i do not know him other then confronting him 2 times. i just want to let my son know what he did and why i feel a "real man" could NEVER do such a thing. i am reminded from the Bible that when we think we are standing firm--- watch out, for we can fall in the same sin. i am really not trying to be holyer then them, but i just cannot see how a good person could do such a thing. it is harder for me to understand my wifes position, i am not a woman. i think it is wrong, sick and disgusting. from this you may see the problem i am having in this MB stuff. but i am who i am and i am not ashamed or sorry for my position.
thanks for the advice.<p>hope.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>Welcome to MB NeedtoKnow. I'm sorry for the circumstance in which you were brought here.<p>I am not a mom, unfortunetly. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] But we do have plenty of mom AND dads here that I'm sure have faced this delimna. I'm sure they will respond to you soon.<p>WAT (Worthatry) instantly comes to mind because he too is a BS with custody of his son and may be faced with a similar circumstance. He's a very respected and wise man, well versed in the MB principals. Hopefully you'll be hearing from him.<p>God Bless,
Jo<p>[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Thank you Jo,<p>You are right, i would welcome advice from mom's and dad's. I just noticed in some posts from DLM, she is where i pray my W will be soon. Any advice is welcomed. Thanks.<p>love.

I am a Mom....Super Mom actually.<p>My older children 15 & 14 know of my H's infidelity, however they only know that much. they do not know any details.<p>My oldest son thinks it was 1x a long time ago. WRONG! But, his therapist (had to put all 4 kids in therapy) feels it is best to keep the horrible details out & just let the kids know that their Dad did a terrible thing & sinned & I am very hurt & need their support & I will decide what I want to do about my marriage when I am ready.<p>They no nothing about the OW...they actually know one of them.<p>I feel that my H & the OW are equally to blame. It takes two. Yes, she was immoral to have an affair with a married man, but he certainly wasn't telling her that he loved his wife & would never leave her.<p>In all these cases it's mutual...the blame should be mutual..if you forgive your wife you need to forgive the OM.<p>Peace.

[In all these cases it's mutual...the blame should be mutual..if you forgive your wife you need to forgive the OM.<p>Peace.[/QB][/QUOTE]<p>Thanks for your reply. I know what you are saying and it really hits me seeing it in writting. I always remind myself whenever and whatever I think of him I must also think of her. Thanks for your thoughts.<p>Joy.

need2know,
I work nights, so just now read your situation.<p>I am so glad that your son has Accepted Christ as his savior, that will help so much in all the upcoming situation. the best thing I can tell you is to act with the mind of Christ. If this man is to become a part of your son's life, don't poison his mind. Your son is a smart young man who is just beginning is walk with Christ. And he has to see Christ in you and your reactions to all this. That doesn't mean that you accept what has happened, but it does mean that your reactions are tempered with Christ's love. A very hard thing for us humans to do.<p>I have a couple of questions for you. Has your son noticed anything wrong with you and his mother at home? Has there been any fighting or anything so he would know that things aren't as they should be or will this come as a total shock to him? If it is a total shock then please be careful. At age 11 it could really hurt his relationship with his mother and change his opinion of women in general. Search your heart and seek God's face before telling him. God will give you the words or wisdom to say to your son.<p>My prayers are with you. I will check back later for the answers to my questions for you.<p>Debbie

I have a couple of questions for you. Has your son noticed anything wrong with you and his mother at home? Has there been any fighting or anything so he would know that things aren't as they should be or will this come as a total shock to him? If it is a total shock then please be careful. At age 11 it could really hurt his relationship with his mother and change his opinion of women in general. Search your heart and seek God's face before telling him. God will give you the words or wisdom to say to your son.<p>My prayers are with you. I will check back later for the answers to my questions for you.<p>Debbie[/QB][/QUOTE]
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Debbie,<p>Thank you for your reply. I had a feeling you or any other wise Christian would give this advice. I do pray for the heart and mind of Christ. Day three after d-day I prayed all night for the heart of Christ and spent the night reflecting on his model prayer, that was our Sunday school lesson that Sunday. When W came to the guestroom where I was sleeping the next morning, I asked her to pray with me and I forgave her then. I did not even really decide I was going to but the Lord convicted me then and there I had no choice, who am I not to forgive.<p>In the two days prior, d-day and d-day +1, our son definitely knew there was a major problem. We had been having problems for a couple of years and until d-day I could not really figure out why. I had and have a super relationship with son and we would talk often about what is bothering mommy. I had mentioned many times to him things were pretty bad and I did not know if we might need to separate. He of course never really wanted to think about it and all would come back together. Then came d-day. At that time I took son for a ride and told him things now are REALLY bad and I think we might split. He was ok but really never wanted to talk about it. After my forgiving my wife I guess I thought all would be ok and I kicked into an action plan. Well you can see from this post that I have a terrible problem with having my W see this thing as I do. That is probably not fair or even right but I am stuck there.<p>My son is now aware there is a problem as my wife as moved out &#8220;to sort things out&#8221; on 9/27/01. My son is with me 50% of the time and I am in the family home. My wife as move two miles away to her sisters, who is my son&#8217;s second mother. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law are great people and just want to help. I mentioned son going forward two Sunday&#8217;s before d-day, my Brother-in-law, his wife and D all went forward the day before d-day. I was so full of joy it was incredible. The Lord was no doubt preparing me for the next day.<p>I talk to son all the time now about what the future might look like. He is great and so cool and flexible, he just wants everyone to be happy. I/we have not told him of A yet. My real question is if W has OM become open part of her life and thereby son&#8217;s also, do I tell son facts? This man sent my W home with a hickey on her neck one day. She explained it away and of course I had to believe her, it was too bazaar for me to think it could possibly be a hickey. How do I accept this man can possibly be worthy of my son&#8217;s admiration? Please, what do you think? Thanks so much. <p>Hope.<p>[ November 14, 2001: Message edited by: need2know ]</p>

My children are too young to understand my husband's infidelity but if your wife is a good person who cares about your son perhaps she will legally agree to not have your son associate with any other men that may appear in your wife's life for a specified term.<p>I will have a written clause in my paperwork indicating that neither my husband or I will have our children associate with any member of the opposite sex until that person has been a part of our lives for at least six months and it appears as though it will be a long term relationship. This will prevent all kinds of men coming and going from your son's life.<p>My attorney advised me to have that clause put in the agreement and she says she advises that to all her divorce clients, although your wife is not obligated to sign it, and I'm sure many fogged in spouses do refuse.<p>Good luck!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Wifeofcop:
<strong>My children are too young to understand my husband's infidelity but if your wife is a good person who cares about your son perhaps she will legally agree to not have your son associate with any other men that may appear in your wife's life for a specified term.<p>I will have a written clause in my paperwork indicating that neither my husband or I will have our children associate with any member of the opposite sex until that person has been a part of our lives for at least six months and it appears as though it will be a long term relationship. This will prevent all kinds of men coming and going from your son's life.<p>My attorney advised me to have that clause put in the agreement and she says she advises that to all her divorce clients, although your wife is not obligated to sign it, and I'm sure many fogged in spouses do refuse.<p>Good luck!</strong><hr></blockquote>
______________________________________________
Thanks. That is somethig to think about. My wife is a good person and I am not worried about men in and out of her/son life. I am worried about the man she as been with in A for two years. I am sure if we divorce and fog lifts, any other new man would be a good person and I would not worry about them being is son's life. My son has me and very close uncle who are good men. he is also very plugged in at church and lots of good men role models. It is just this one man, who based on his actions of two years, proves to me he cannot be a role model for my son I am trying to keep out of his life. I will consider having it included in the agreement we are going to be working on next week. Thanks for the suggestion.<p>love.

need2know,<p>Is your wife also a Christian? I know for me that was the KEY factor in me giving my marriage another chance. God does not allow us, his children, to walk in sin without consequences.
For me, it is dealing with all the memories. The OM I was involved with claimed to me a Christian too, and like you, my H found it difficult to accept that. The OM would tell me that it was God who brought us together since our marriages were falling apart. And I bought into that. But it was my H who actually prayed for me and had his close circle of friends pray for me. And for me, without God as my center, I was not who I wanted to be. But while deep in that fog, I couldn't hear or see God and I certainly didn't care what my H thought. If my A hadn't been discovered as soon as it was, I would still be involved. But things progressed so quickly and I was pressed by both men to make a decision. I believe that all that was God timed to prevent me from making the decision to leave my H. If my A had been going on for two years, I would of had no problem leaving my H for the OM and your W may be at that very stage.
Could I ask what happened in your marriage that she felt she needed to seek someone outside the marriage to meet her needs?<p>This is just my opinion by how the court looks at things these days. There is no worry about an A, but of what kind of mother she is. Since she is a good mother, it is doubtful that you will be able to keep your son from being involved with the OM if that is who she chooses to be with. She has known him longer than 6 months and it's doubtful that you can put a clause in your seperation agreement that would prevent her from taking him there. Pray for wisdom and have your close friends praying. Be open and honest with your friends on your needs and concerns. Once you have God's answer, you know you will have peace within yourself to move forward. <p>While I am at work tonight, I will pray specifically for your W. I have been where she is and I know the draw the OM has on her. I know all the lines he can use to keep her, but I also know that God is stronger and more powerful IF we let him be. My heart cries for her because I realy know where she is at. I still have that pull towards the OM, and I have to fight it. Sometimes I lose that fight, but I pick myself back up and God gives me the strenght to fight again. And by losing I mean having thoughts of him and how things could have been. Those are the demons that WS fight.<p>My prayers are with you and your son.
Debbie

Debbie,<p>Yes, my wife is a Christian. She was not when we married and we/I did not make Christ the center of our new life together. We married and courted just like any other couple in the world. We were both good people when we meet and I was 26 and she was 24 when we married. <p>As for what lead to the A I take more then my share of the blame. I was not living the Christian life I professed and was not leading my family the right way. We did go to a Baptist church from the time we were dating but I never really totally lived the life. After we were married we moved into out nice little house in the country and started living a nice life. A year or so later we got pregnant and along came our beautiful son. By all measures we were a great couple living the American dream. My wife always worked and enjoys her job. Her sister had a child 4 months before us and quit her job and watched both children. It was perfect, the kids were and are like twins and all was good. <p>The years went by and things seemed ok. We were not really deep together though; you know what I mean. I drank (at home, in basement, at night) and neglected wives and I guess mine emotional needs. I was in a business and making lots of money and figured what a life. All is great. Anyway, we were ok but never really great. The drive to work for my W was getting to her and we wanted to move closer to her sister. We bought a nice piece of land a couple miles from sister and had our dream home built a few years ago. I guess my neglect caught up to me after we achieved all these goals and I imagine my W looked around at all we had and was still not happy and then trouble came.<p>It was about this time that I finally woke up and realized that there was a problem. I completely stopped drinking and tried to please W. it was too late. I did not know it but A started. Then I guess she was having needs met so she stopped complaining. I thought, &#8220;man I wish I knew a few beers in the basement was such a big deal&#8221; &#8220;I would have quite years ago&#8221;. Little did I know she just gave up on me? For the last couple of years I have been a much better husband and father. Although I may not have been a great husband, I don&#8217;t think anyone feels I was ever a bad dad. In the beginning of 2001 we started going to a new church. This is were my son got saved and her sister and family also got saved. We really started to get much more connected with church and God. I was really starting to be happy and I think W was too. Then came d-day.<p>My wife is great mother and I would never attempt to keep son from her or have him turn on her. It is just this thought of OM that makes me nuts. Your comment about God not letting his children fall really hit home. The Lord convicted me months ago to stop worrying about her heart and take her actions for what they were. If I had done that we would still be together now (probably). I just could not let her action speak when I knew her heart was somewhere else.<p>Thank you so much for praying for us. We have had several prayer meetings and we have many close godly men and woman praying for us. I know it is working, she had a brief moment of clarity last week. I will look for improvements tomorrow. I really appreciate your prayer and advice. God bless you.<p>Joy.

As much as you want to sit down with your son and tell him what this man did was so wrong you can't do that without being willing to talk the same way about the role your wife played in this mess. It took two people to create this and are you sure you're willing to damage her standing in his eyes.
You sound like you have a great deal of anger towards this man but your anger doesn't show towards y;our wife. Isn't it your wife that vowed in the eyes of God to forsake all others?
You should both sit down and talk to your son about what is going on but don't put blame anywhere and if you do just put alll the blame on this man what message are you then sending your son?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 1happycamper:
<strong>As much as you want to sit down with your son and tell him what this man did was so wrong you can't do that without being willing to talk the same way about the role your wife played in this mess. It took two people to create this and are you sure you're willing to damage her standing in his eyes.
You sound like you have a great deal of anger towards this man but your anger doesn't show towards y;our wife. Isn't it your wife that vowed in the eyes of God to forsake all others?
You should both sit down and talk to your son about what is going on but don't put blame anywhere and if you do just put alll the blame on this man what message are you then sending your son?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>__________________________________________
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I definitely agree that any thought and opinions I have about OM must also be directed to W. I guess the anger and the negative comments about OM is because I see this person being part of our son&#8217;s life. I cannot relate to a woman who feels emotionally neglected and whatever. But I can relate to the actions of a man. And I feel the actions of this man carrying on a secret A with a &#8220;respectful&#8221; married mother for over two years is a absolute indication of character. I think he has none. I am not pleased with my W and don&#8217;t want anything to do with her in the state she is in. I pray for the fog to be lifted.<p>Peace.

You say you have negative feelings because this man may come to be a part of your sons life, well, your wife already is a part of his life. To say this man's affair with your wife is an indication that he has no chracter, than you must also be saying that this affair is an indication that your wife has no character. Your wife also carried on this secret affair too.
I just don't think you can say anything to your son about this man's character without saying the same things about your wifes character. Your son will eventually be able to put the two together.
I am a mother, one whose husband had an affair. Our marriage ended in divorce and when discussing it with my child I left blaming and name calling and judgements to myself. I was flipping hot with regards to my then H and the other woman who just so hapened to be a friend but I didn't discuss thoughts on how I felt about the two them beyond admitting to being hurt and sad and mad.
I have never felt that it is appropriate to put someone else down to a child.
No matter what you say to your son about this other man how can he not walk away thinking those things are also true about his mother. I think that's what you should avoid, giving him reason to think his mother is such a horrible person.
At some point when he's older I'm sure he'll be more able to deal with all the truths of what came to be but not at such a formidable age. There will be enough for him to deal with if this ends in divorce without adding shame to your wife through your words spoken to him.
I hope I made more sense this time.

1happycamper:<p>i agree. i do think these same things about W. did you tell your children the facts? that is want i am considering. i will not name call and try to have son turn on mother. i am just tring to decide if leting son know facts is wise. <p>joy