Brief recap...suspect S has been having PA with married coworker for several years. Confronted S 5 months ago, but S continues to deny despite multitude of red flags. Tried Plan A with no success. Now trying modified Plan B while still in the same house. No conversation, no meals together, no recreational activities....just the bare miniumum of conversation with the specification that all this will change once questions are answered. Told S no chance of recovery unless questions are answered. Still no success. S has threatened to leave many times, but says has not. I've used Dobson's theory most of the time. A few times I've not been that strong. Sleeping in separate rooms. Finances are separate. Feel like I've become a roommate! <p>Am I kicking a dead horse?!<p>When there are no children, and things aren't going well, it's so lonely. There's no one else to focus on. I've been trying to focus on me and work on me...I'm not a very selfish person though, so all of this is against my nature. It's also very hard for me to be strong as he continues to do some nice things for me even though I am ignoring them.<p>Please help!

I'm sorry, but I don't remember your story, so my comments are based on what you wrote in this post.......<p>If he's doing nice things for you... wouldn't that mean he wants to work on things? Could that be his way of telling you that?<p>You said that your H isn't answering your questions, yet you say he's denying your suspicions. To me, that means he's answering your questions. <p>Do you have any HARD EVIDENCE that there is an A going on? Without that, I don't see much point of moving into plan B. But that's just my opinion.<p>What is it that you want help with? I'm not getting enough from your post to see what it is specifically that you're looking for (but that could just be a blonde moment of mine... grin).<p>Karen

Topie25<p>No, just because my S is denying that anything is going on does that mean it's the truth. S has a problem with lying. Have seen S lie in counseling even though I was aware it was a lie and just stared at S.<p>As for flags, it was carrying birth control when there was no chance it was for us, hang up calls, checking voice mail excessively, lying about whereabouts on weekends and during working hours, disappearing for 4-5 hours, excessively talking about a coworker, taking several pictures of same coworker at company event, extra unexplained mileage on the car, S receiving unexplained gifts, large sums of $ disappearing from accounts, etc., etc.<p>S's excessive denials make it impossible to get anywhere in counseling. I have repeatedly said that whatever it is, we can get through it, we've been together for 20 years, but I need to know what's going on. The only thing I've said I can't/won't work on is if S is having an PA and wants to be with OP. In that case, S must make a choice. It's been several months since I said all this, and I have received no answers to questions about unexplained behavior, etc. <p>S has threatened to leave several times. I've used Dobson practices most of the time, to no avail. S hasn't left, but S is not with me either. S keeps saying S wants to work on the marriage, but actions speak louder than words.<p>I'm not sure Plan B works while in same house, but I'm not ready to leave, and since S hasn't, I've decided to implement it that way.<p>Do you think I'm kicking a dead horse?<p>I'm faced with completely distasteful choices. No matter which way I turn, I'm faced with a choice that breaks my heart. I've been trying not to think about it and just focus on me and doing things around the house, etc., but it's always looming there. Especially when I feel like I've been reduced to having/being a roommate.<p>Anyone have advice?

I have two suggestions. First, for your comfort, read a book called Never Be Lied To Again-How To Get The Truth In 5 Minutes Or Less. I requested mine from the library in unabridged audio form, and it is excellent! I'm not even half-way through it, and I already feel so empowered with the knowledge I've gained. By applying the techniques you may even be able to provoke a confession, so just stop dealing with the issue until you learn from this book.<p>Secondly, you are not doing a Plan B. Plan B is NO CONTACT at all between BS and WS. This is so the WS is left to wonder what you are doing because s/he cannot observe you anymore, and if you've laid down a good Plan A impression in their mind before implementing Plan B, then they will miss that and/or realize that someone else may enjoy it if they don't try to get it back.<p>Doing the roommate thing (did that myself for several months before D-day) just reinforces the impression that you are NOT what they want because you are distant, withholding, a b*tch, just don't care, whatever rationalization and justification they used to pursue the A in the first place.<p>And you are not willing at this time to do a Plan A, so my suggestion is to do what I consider to be a plan between Harley's A & B, and the best source for guidelines and ideas for this are Michele Weiner-Davis' books, Divorce Busting and The Divorce Remedy (www.divorcebusting.com). These give you a nuts & bolts approach that can be used in conjunction with what you learn from Dr. Dobson in Love Must Be Tough.<p>Dobson kind of makes the case for why to "open the cage", and Davis gives you the tools to attract your partner back to you without the total submission of a full Harley Plan A. Plus it helps you to feel better right away because you are DOING something to work on your M without feeling like you're sacrificing your dignity (being part of a harem, as Dobson calls it).<p>For instance, I quit doing the reluctant roommate thing and started being pleasant, friendly, acknowledging of his presence (think "brother"), but very, very busy. If he was gone for 5 hours, he would return to an empty house while I did something nice for myself and the children during that time instead of fretting about where he was. I also started leaving the children with him when he was home and running errands by myself. All very pleasant with a smile on my face at all times. Absolutely NO talks about "us" whatsoever.<p>Mostly I worked on resurrecting the me I was before I married him, the me he was attracted to in the first place, the me who was confident, poised, outgoing, friendly, a "people person", fun to be around, bright, upbeat, the me I really am under all the hurt and disappointment, the me *I* really enjoy and want back in my life permanently, whether married or single. Dr. Phil's books help a lot, too. He calls this "me" I'm referring to our "core of consciousness" and talks about peeling away the layers.<p>Make a decision to start now to improve your life and postpone evaluating the viability of the M until later.<p>(I should also add that it was only after I applied this approach that it kind of sent my H into a tailspin and provoked his leaving "to think" but then a few days later to him calling me and wanting to talk, wanting to come back, wanting to work on the M, and CONFESSING his A!)<p>[ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Thanks Conquerer....<p>I will get those books and start this. I was implementing the coldness to get a confession on advice from a friend. It really didn't feel right because it wasn't me. According to my therapist, my S does have a problem that prevents Plan A from working. She told me S is like a bottomless pit, and the more I gave the more S would need/take. Plan A was really erroding my self-esteem. Thanks for your help. I'll keep you posted.<p>I'm sorry for what you are going through as well. I've read many of your posts, and found them to be helpful. I hope things work out the way you want them to soon.

I agree with Conquerer, in that you aren't really doing a plan B right now. I can't imagine how it could be done while living in the same house, apart from having opposite schedules (one S working graveyard shift, the other a day shift, for example).<p>So your C says that the more your give your H, the more he takes from you. That's a lot of plan A... that's the part that people refer to as the 'doormat'. And that is why the Harley's recommend a 6 month timeframe in plan A. But everyone is different. Sometimes an extremely short OR long plan A is needed before moving into plan B.<p>IMO, you should get back into plan A mode. Set a date for your plan B (which you seem to know you need to be anyways), and when that date arrives... whammo! No contact between you and your H. I doubt by then that OW will be able to meet all of the EN's you've been fulfilling at that point. That's the ideal anyways.<p>Keep in mind that plan A is for you too! It is NOT being a doormat. It only starts to feel like that when you aren't getting any EN's fulfilled from your H. That's when it's time to get into plan B.<p>I'd suggest using your plan A time to prepare for plan B. If you're not working, then find a job that will allow you to earn some extra money so you can start looking for a place to live (I say this b/c of your statement on how H won't do it). <p>Most important to remember... as hard as it is... is that plan A and B is NOT about the OW. True, your M cannot be worked on until she's out of the picture altogether, but the plans are for YOU. Become the best person you know you can and want to be. Pick your battles. Always remember that the only person you can change is YOU. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Let us know what you decide to do.<p>Karen

Thanks Conquerer and Topie....<p>At last minute S said was sick and not going to dinner with family and me. Then was astounded that I would go alone. Said I was leaving in a few minutes and S could come if S wanted to. Told me to go myself and then called me there to yell at me for doing so.<p>These are the games we play all the time, and I just can't deal with it any longer.<p>Yes, C, my counselor said that S has a problem and nothing done on my part will change that. It's like a bottomless pit and S will just keep taking Plan A with no change in behavior on S's part.<p>Need to take action. Been told that S continues this way because no consequences have been suffered due to S's actions.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sad1:
<strong>Thanks Conquerer....<p>I was implementing the coldness to get a confession on advice from a friend. It really didn't feel right because it wasn't me. According to my therapist, my S does have a problem that prevents Plan A from working. She told me S is like a bottomless pit, and the more I gave the more S would need/take. Plan A was really erroding my self-esteem.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Dear Sad1,
Wow what you wrote sounded a lot like what I went through. Plan A worked a bit but only after H's head cleared up and his memory returned. <p>Ex: My H originally blamed me for his A. After I planned A'd, then went to plan B, H told the OW that I was no longer his excuse for continuing the A. What!?!?!?! I began to realize that the more I gave the more he expected. No appreciation here. In fact his whole family is like that. Very needy people. His younger sister lived with us in exchange for baby sitting. While she was a good sitter when our son was an infant, she became increasingly jealous of him as he got older, to the point that when she came to visit she would pick on him then ask me if I loved my son more than her. <p>She drained me big time and he comes from a family of 12 + parents. Parents are just as needy!!! <p>The point is that you have to find that 'helpful' way to help your W and being the giver may not be that way. For me it was getting H to do more for me. I had to show my needs. I thought for years that the more independant I was the better I was making it for H. Nope, couldn't have been more wrong. <p>I found out that H sometimes didn't want my input just wanted me to acknowledge that I heard him. Wow, I didn't know that. Now I am not so opininated just listen more. Hm..... new concept. Me the giver kept trying to fix. Him the taker would just get mad. You'd think he would have told me that bothered him long ago. Nope, he expected me to figure it out. How? I am not sure, I guess I am not psychic..... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.