Why is it wrong and probably immoral for me to want to defend my family (violently if necessary) from this intruder?<p>Why do I have to sit her idle and play nicey f'n nicey when they're together this very minute? This after her nice email yesterday about trying to "live in the minute" this week (with her family and all in our house). How in the hell is she supposed to get to a point where she'll EVER want to be with me if she's just getting her last fix of him before her parents forbid her to be out of their sight for the rest of the week?<p>Why in the F*K do I even give a SH*T?<p>Someone please try to explain this all to me for about the thousandth time.<p>Thanks, now I need to go record Brittney Spears for her (I'm such the nice F'N guy!).
K

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevco-:
<strong>Why is it wrong and probably immoral for me to want to defend my family (violently if necessary) from this intruder?<p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Kev,<p>I know you are furious right now, but please take a deep breath and don't act on it. You WILL regret it and only push your W farther away. You have to have patience right now and THINK RATIONALLY in order to even have a CHANCE at saving your marriage. Acting right now will RUIN ANY CHANCE. And I know you want to punch his face in [and he probably deserves it - the jerk]but is he worth going to JAIL over? No, he is not. He has already caused you enough pain.<p>And while he probably deserves a punch in the nose, just remember that he is not the one here who made a vow to you. That doesn't justify him at all, but you have to keep things in perspective and remember to keep focused on your W and working on Plan A. Calm down, Kev [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

kevco-<p>I know that this is eating you up inside. I'm so sorry.<p>No, you are not wrong to want to defend your family any way you can. But let your W and OM be the one's to act wrongly, not you. Let logic win over emotion. You can do it. Think of it this way. Becoming violent is inefficient. It doesn't move you in the direction you want to go.<p>You know you can't change W. You simply can't. But you are strong, and one way or another, your correct path will become clear as time passes.
You're not sitting idly, either. You are holding your family together with your strength and patience.<p>Best wishes, Estes

ML-
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>is he worth going to JAIL over?<hr></blockquote><p>Sometimes...I think yes, I've never spent the night in jail, it'd be a new and varied experience. Besides, what's a little Assault & Battery, slap on the hand, I pay his doctor bills, and I lose my wife....no big loss if you ask me right now. PLUS, I get the satisfaction of inflicting a tiny fraction of the pain that they're causing me (TAKER, anyone?).<p>E-
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Let logic win over emotion. You can do it. Think of it this way. Becoming violent is inefficient. It doesn't move you in the direction you want to go. <hr></blockquote><p>It seems like LOGIC NEVER WINS! And really, the only direction I want to go right now, is out of this misery. At least I could take an active roll in deciding the outcome of this (albeit one I don't particularly like right now).<p>
I just cannot, cannot, CANNOT understand (and I've BEEN the WS) why she won't come out of it, think about what she has, is losing, and may NEVER regain. <p>
I wonder if she's thinking right now, this very moment about the task I gave her Sunday morning...."think of a reason, a SINGLE reason why you SHOULD fight for this marriage." I'm gathering it's hard to think about that on your back.<p>K

DUP ... sorry, I'm a dork.<p>[ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Kev,<p>Go get a bucket of soapy hot water, put some gloves on and go clean the bathroom. Scrub that sucker clean until you can't scrub anymore. <p>If you don't do something active to keep your mind off of this you're gonna drive yourself crazy ... OR drive youself over to those bushes by OM's house again, which is a BIG no no.<p>I'm sorry Kev ... I know how this hurts like hell.<p>Jo

Hi Kevco,<p>Who said you have to sit idle? Nope, nope, nope. Ever hear about idle hands are the devil's workshop? <p>Ok, don't sit idle, think, work, plan. My son just informed us that it is impossible to do nothing. RE: even if you are dead, you are still lying around someplace..... (6 year old mentality strikes again!!!) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>So based on this, you better start working. You said that you have to spend this weekend with her family at your home? Do whatever you need to make the house look nice and comfy for her family. Make sure to let them know 'who' did all the work..... If it makes your W look a bit awkward, ok. Smile and enjoy the compliments. <p>Toyboy can't do much now can he? You make Kevco look irresitable. That handsome adorable fellow she fell in love with. The one her family loves. Now don't get too mushy just be yourself and nice. <p>This should keep you quite busy even if you have to think ahead of what might happen. <p>Get crackin'.......<p>L.

O-
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Who said you have to sit idle? Nope, nope, nope. Ever hear about idle hands are the devil's workshop?
Ok, don't sit idle, think, work, plan. <hr></blockquote><p>True, and the only plans I seem capable of right now are pretty much unthinkable (least wise, I'll never speak them aloud)!<p>I've just about run out of tears. My insides are turning dark and hard. I'm telling you, I've seen it before, once I step through that door, it's not going to be easy to come back. I know right now, that's what she wants, for me to give up, to do something to make it easy for her- and I'm almost there.

Violence is most always the incorrect choice. Violence begets more violence.<p>Your anger, resentment and powerlessness are understandable.<p>Apparently 'our' OW's H has threatened violence on my H. Does it scare me? A little? She also told my H that he has threatened me and my children...as if we had something to do with his decision.<p>So...I guess I would ask you to think, as I have had to do of any children or wife of the OM. They did not ask for this...and violence would hurt them terribly...I have had to think of OW's children...both of whom I have met...held...wished happy birthday's to....<p>This is an impossible situation, kevco...please don't add violence to it...<p>We don't take the high road to make ourselves look better, we take the high road because it is the right thing to do...

So Kev, then don't walk thru that door. Prove her wrong. <p>It's very hard to stop thinking about what they're doing, but you can't control them and it has to run it's course.<p>In "Private Lies" the author tells us to try and just sit back and watch them knowing it will come to an end. And if you interfere you chance prolonging it. I know how hard this is, it's one day at a time ... keep posting for support and we'll be here. <p>Kev, you seem so tenacious and you came here to use the Harley's principals, you can keep doing this, don't give up now. Make it thru today and you'll be a bit stronger tomorrow, and each day will be a building block of strength building. <p>I'm so sorry for your pain, you don't deserve this. Get strong Kev ... we'll help you.<p>Jo

Dear Kevco,<p>Let me share this piece of fogese with you. My H expected and both he and ow put all their 'eggs' (her old eggs) in one basket and gambled on the fact that I would get angry and kick him out. Well he did leave, on his own. God helped my anger and made me feel hurt. The pain was unreal but bearable. Unbelievably bearable. Is that a sentence? Hm...<p>Anyway in the fog, my H now admits that me 'wanted' me to throw him away. I did not and would not. If he wanted to leave it was his choice and he needed to do all the dirty work. <p>So before you step through that 'door' know that she is babbling. Do you make your life decisions based on babbling? I hope not. <p>L.

Kev,<p>This is a post from JDmac's thread from Buffy/Faye. I thought it would help you because it does seem to apply to what you're feeling right now. Please read, okay Kev?<p>**********************************************
Hey JD:<p>After a long period of giving...our taker can rear its ugly head too....that what it sounds like is happening to you. <p>It's naturally...we get tired of doing all the giving...but are you in this for the long haul?<p>And for heaven's sake...don't start buying into her reality...that can happen. You can get so fed up that you begin to say "maybe she right"...there is no hope. <p>Not liking the person your wife has become is to be expected...she has to do what she is doing to justify herself (even to herself)...but that can't last forever....and as long as things are going well with OP then she may have this reality. It's when things begin to crumble in the other affair that reality rears its ugly head...and she pulls her head out of the ground and says "where am I" "What have I been doing?".
It may not last for long...but you'll see it...and you'll also see glimpes of the "old" WS.
And the period of being more aware become longer and longer...but this all takes time...and some people longer then others.<p>If you can just maintain your resolve that this is going to work out...that you and your marriage will survive all this, then this will help to give you the patience you need to get through it.<p>Don't give up now...although sometimes I think your drawing back when you've been doing all the effort does have some beneficial effect...just realize that this is like a dance..and sometimes you're leading and sometimes you're following...but the dance needs to go on til the music is over. Don't quit while the music's still playing. <p>You can do this...I know you can.<p>Faye

The main reason, Kev, is because you may feel differently tomorrow.<p>Remind yourself of how many changes you've gone through during this time and don't lock yourself into a position until you've settled into it internally and consistently over a predetermined period of time. Tell yourself, "I can always pursue this course of action next week if I still feel this way. I don't have to do it right now."<p>I've made it to the other side of several internal rages this way. It may very well not be worth giving a sh** anymore, but if that is truly so, it will still be evident next week, next month, whatever, but you won't REALLY know until you get there. Ride to the end of the line so that you know it truly is the end of the line.<p>When I reached that point in M#1, it was not in a period of high emotion or drama (so that's the first clue that you may not be there yet). It came as a kind of gradual quiet dawning of "Oh, it's really and truly over now" with complete acceptance and peace with the realization. Grief continued, but I knew I would never take him back again no matter what. I knew my work was done.

kevco-,
Do you want to give the pleasure for OM to have your WW cries on his shoulder ?. I don't think so ... go to gymn and do work out on your body.<p>Orchid,
Thanks for the inside story, it confirmed my WW behavior that try to irritate my nerves and also from listening their conversation, OM plans the seed very carefully & skillfully. :mad

Hey -- Kev,<p>I've seen your story develop for a while - watched it ebb and flow along side my own... just remember you're not alone. There's thousands - tens of thousands of folks out there who want to see you beat this. Sure, you could beat the crap out of OM - part of me would be so very happy to do that in my case too. But I'd not only lose my wife, but my feeling that I kicked their a$$es with truth and courage - honor. The last stinking shred of it, I think sometimes. Sigh.<p>We all know they won't last, Kev. And maybe you're right - maybe if things don't work out, you'll move on, find someone else who treats you right, and someday she may realize what she's done - by then it'll be too late. I'm not normally one for revenge, but in a sense, that would be the sweetest - if I were into that kind of thing, which I'm not... (well, in some moments of anger, I guess I'm not so strong - I keep that to myself and for here, though.)

(((Kevco))) I hope you are less furious now. Please PLEASE don't do anything you'll regret later. You want to save you M? Stay calm. I screamed at my H 2 weeks ago, now our house is on the market and we're moving to separate apartments. This after 8 months of me trying to work on things. PLEASE stay calm. Go talk to someone (not your W). You love her and want the M to work; then, unfortunately, you MUST wait for HER to get out of the fog. In the meantime, remember that Plan A is as much for you (if not more) as it is for her. I have to go to sleep, but I'm checking in with you tomorrow. Remember how last week you told me that you were still going to hope for me, even though I said I just can't hope anymore? I'M HERE, HOPING FOR YOU TO BE PATIENT AND LET GOD DO SOME WORK HERE!!!<p>MOM [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Resilient-
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>...and as long as things are going well with OP then she may have this reality. It's when things begin to crumble in the other affair that reality rears its ugly head...and she pulls her head out of the ground and says "where am I" "What have I been doing?". <hr></blockquote><p>Problem is, that's not how >>>I<<< came out of the fog in my EA. Things weren't going badly w/ OW, as a matter of fact the opportunity for the "next step" was beginning to present itself. That's when I sat down and said "WHOA! What the hell and I doing?" I thought about it logically and carefully and flat out DECIDED to try to save my M. WS is a smart girl, not generally prone to emotional decisions, why the hell can't she do the same? I definitely know that the odds are agains ANY A lasting, particularly one involving a 19 year old...but as I've said before, the only real-life example I have goes against the odds.<p>Pretty much the ONLY thing that keeps me from acting on my anger is my freaking morals. I KNOW it's wrong to act on them. It's not real good to even THINK the things I am, and I've asked God to forgive me those weaknesses. I don't have ANY clue where I picked up this deep sense of right and wrong (certainly not from my father- he burnt down OM house), but it's a real drag sometimes.<p>Conqueror-
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I've made it to the other side of several internal rages this way. It may very well not be worth giving a sh** anymore, but if that is truly so, it will still be evident next week, next month, whatever, but you won't REALLY know until you get there. Ride to the end of the line so that you know it truly is the end of the line.<p>When I reached that point in M#1, it was not in a period of high emotion or drama (so that's the first clue that you may not be there yet). It came as a kind of gradual quiet dawning of "Oh, it's really and truly over now" with complete acceptance and peace with the realization. Grief continued, but I knew I would never take him back again no matter what. I knew my work was done. <hr></blockquote><p>Your comments both soothe and scare the hell out of me. I see the wisdom in them (several others have post the same here, thank you). I will try to take that to heart and TRY to not make any decisions when hot. I have been known to do that in the past...I'll work on it. The part that scares me, is this sounds pretty similar to how WS described her decision to step out of the M (obviously without informing me first). I HOPE it has been the fog talking, at least I haven't heard that sentiment for a little while.<p>OH, and by the way, your handle sounds pretty appropriate- I like the way you think!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] (see Needing's post from earlier- wake him.... [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] ). <p>MOM-
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I'M HERE, HOPING FOR YOU TO BE PATIENT AND LET GOD DO SOME WORK HERE!!! <hr></blockquote><p>I LOVE YOU, MAN! (said as in the old bud light spots [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>Oh, and by the way, I feel a little better now, in case it hasn't come across in my (typing) tone. As quickly as the feeling of them being together washed over me, it faded, and was verified. Guess she'll be sleeping in her OWN bed tonight (well, OURS is hers, but you know what I mean). I just wish I wasn't right about that ALL THE TIME, because I have many more of the washings than fadings.<p>Thank you all, one more day, done.
K

Hey Kev,
Been following your story-very similar to mine.
I know exactly how you feel-I was in that position once in 1975 in my first marriage. I acted on the impulse/urge to do violence to the intruder.<p>Well Kev, the guy died and I have paid the price ever since. I cannot begin to tell you of the horror and remorse that I brought on myself,family,friends,relations,business associates etc etc.<p>Gaol(jail) is horrific but the worst is living on afterwards. I have relived the whole thing everyday since then(26years)- and the pain,sorrow and remorse NEVER goes away or lessens.<p>My situation now the BS and sometimes (like many others) my thoughts turn to trying something to make the pain stop but it is only fleeting and in moments of depression and I get rid of the thought straight away. It is no answer and the people who will suffer are you and your nearest and dearest.<p>Keep doing Plan A as long as you can. He is 19 -in the long run he hasn't got a chance. He is only a "player" not a "stayer". Players don't win races.<p>I am doing myself exactly what I and the others suggest to you.I don't know how long it will be but I'm in there with you.<p>Meditating for half an hour a day helps me-just relaxing and breathing-I don't have to think of anything and the relief is great. Could that be of be of some help?<p>Hang in and hang on-you will rise above it. <p>My prayers are with you and all our fellow sufferers.<p>Byron

Hey Kev,<p>I just wanted to add my encouregment. I am glad to hear you have calmed down. <p>Don't forget, the OK (other kid) is ONLY 19. This is not going to last. Work on you. Improve you and YOU may just find that by the time her fog lifts you are in such a better place you do not want her anymore. It sounds to me that it would be a great loss on her account. Hopefully, she will see that before it is to late. The ol' Love Bank can't stay in the red forever, something will break. (Not the other kids neck either)<p>Take care, you did right by posting here before letting you emotions and anger carry you away. I am proud of you!!<p>Needing

Byron,<p>Let me tell you, that's the ONLY reason that I haven't done anything to this point. Not fear of the legal repercussions, not fear of losing my wife, not fear of getting hurt, or hurting my family, but the fact that I know it'd be wrong and I wouldn't be able to live with myself if something like your situation happened- THE ONLY REASON!<p>I have no doubt that if I hang on (or let go as the case may be), I'll "come out above it." It's just that right now, I don't want to be above it if I have to do it alone.<p>Needing,
Thank you for your kind words. I am trying to become the man that I intended so many years ago. I do think that in time, her fog will probably lift, BUT I want that time to be HERE, NOW! If it's not, then we may very well never get together, even if that's all she decides she wants in life....you see, I'm a pretty forgiving (and fogetting) person- ONCE! But I refuse to let someone continue to hurt me. If I've forgiven someone once, they RARELY get a second chance...I know that's probably a character flaw, but I really view it as self preservation. That's not to say that I don't forgive, but I don't forget again, and definitely don't put myself in the same position to get hurt again. I'd forgive her, but I'd never let her get close enough to hurt me in this way again.....each day, each little hurt, moves me ever closer to that "point of no return."<p>IMO (not so humble), YES! it would be a GREAT loss to her. I think I'm a fantastic person, I can be (and have been in years past) such a good, and kind, and caring husband. I can meet her every desire given the chance....I can live to please her (it actually gives ME pleasure to do so). I actually think her account for me in her love bank HAS increased over the last couple of weeks, at least judging by her rhetoric and attitude towards me....but I don't think her account for OK hasn't decreased any (even from the elevated levels to which >>>I<<< sent it in the first couple of weeks).<p>I feel confident that it will only take time, something I'm quickly running out of. I figure I've got maybe about six more weeks of unconditional love left in me (at the current rate of depletion- sounds stupid to put a number on it, but that's how I feel). I think I can make it to the first of the year, but beyond that????<p>Well, she left a message that she sent me an email at work late in the day....I'm going to go and check it. Then I'm going to give the house a once over cleaning before her sister gets here in a couple of hours.<p>Thank you all, really.
I'll keep you posted.<p>Kev