Hi everyone,<p>Sorry if you get sick of the Plan B questions (or my weaknesses while in Plan B) but this is horrible for me. I miss my H soooo much!!! <p>One question I have is whether it is okay for me to send him a card every so often. Just so he knows I still care- no LB's or anything. <p>As the saying goes, "Out of sight, out of mind..." I think this is very true. Thus, I want him to have a little reminder of me every so often. We do not have kids, so we have had absolutely no contact in over two weeks. <p>I will wait until after Thanskgiving (I hope he is very sad that day- thinks of me).<p>I think I have mentioned in a previous post that my H and I met and then I left the country for a year. Thus, our initial relationship was formed in the various letters we sent each other over the year. Of course, when I returned we dated for five years before marriage. <p>I want to try and get back to basics with H, and I think that if I send him cards every once-in-a-while, we may be able to do just that. <p>But, this may also be my way of manipulating the situation. I don't know. What do you guys think?

I think that is why the Harley's STRESS make sure you know the RULES OF PLAN B, that you think long and hard before going into Plan B and PLAN B IS NO CONTACT WHAT SO EVER. When sending cards to him you are doing a long distance Plan A! You have to make up your mind, are you in Plan A or in Plan B. There is no middle ground here.<p>[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: trying2_4give ]</p>

NO!<p>With no kids involved, there's no reason for contact except for financial/legal stuff - and then this should be in writing or thru an intermediary.

Yeah, you are right trying2_4give. <p> Unfortunately, I discovered MB after my H finally confessed to the A and we had already decided to split. At this time, we had been separated for two months and then back together for two months- I consider the time we were back together Plan A- a few LB's, but we were doing fantastic. I think he couldn't live with the lies any longer. Especially when I confronted him with the fact that I thought he probably had feelings for her- and I was okay with that if he separated from her. I just hit too close to home. When I discovered this website, I thought that I had no choice but to go to Plan B. <p> So, a little over two weeks ago I sent him the Plan B letter. We have not spoken in over two weeks. I am so confused and unsure of myself. I probably went to Plan B too early, but I am there now. H knows I want to be with him, but not until he gets a new job (he works with OW) and cuts all ties with her. But, in this job market, I don't even know if he could get a new job. I do not believe he is looking though. <p>This is so terrible- I do not know what I should do. I spend most of my day fighting myself not to call him. Is that pathetic or what. Yesterday, I called his mother. I had to, it was a choice between calling him or calling his mother. Why did I need to contact her? What did I learn- nothing. He is not talking to his mother. He is hiding in the tiny room that he is temporarily staying in. And, part of his problem is that he never grew up and took responsibility for his life. Marriage was too much for him to handle, so he had an A and moved back to moms. <p>Why do I want to cry so bad. Why am I so obsessed with this whole thing. <p>Part of me realizes that maybe this is a blessing in disguise- we were only married a year. But what about the 5 years prior to marriage. I can't throw that away- it was great. <p>Sorry- I am venting. <p>I hate this!

AS, you are in a place that most of us here have been in. Yes, you did go into Plan B too soon, but it IS WHERE YOU ARE NOW. You can't look for excuses to go BACKWARDS only forwards. And from your story, the only thing that it sounds like you would gain from calling your husband is to know that he will still talk to you or that he will say he wants to come back. He CAN COME BACK, but what are YOU GOING BACK TO. A WH that still works with the OW, one who doesn't take responsibility for his actions, one who doesn't want to deal with any of the issues that need to be addressed. No you may THINK you can handle it, but if it were that easy, then a PLAN B would never have been needed. Your H is not ready, you may be, but he is not. He can promise the moon, but without the actions to back it up, you will end up even MORE HURT than you are now. You are surrounding your every thought on your H. This is suppose to be about YOU! What did you do for yourself before you met H, classes, dancing, skiing, reading, or do ANYTHING that you have thought about doing but didn't. We all forget that we had lives before our spouses, it is time to remember that you can have a different life again. You may not want it, but it may be the "ANOTHER WINDOW OPENING" scenerio.

advice seeker,<p>When I counselled with Steve Harley, I specifically asked about this - sending cards to my then-H during Plan B. My concern was similar to yours - will he think I had given up on our marriage in Plan B? Steve said to me that it was OK to send a card, IF I wasn't sure that I had made it perfectly clear to him that he was welcome home as long as he gave up the OW and would agree to the extraordinary measures, etc. I did leave one card for him, with some homebaked goodies (which he enjoyed with the OW!). <p>My thoughts are these: if you are worried he might not be 100% clear, then send ONE card reiterating your position (summary of the Plan B letter). Otherwise - DO NOTHING. Plan B is for YOU to regroup and focus on yourself, and also for your H to have ALL his needs met by the OW, IF she can. In my opinion, the cards and letters and any other kindnesses, just perpetuate the triangle (BS-WS-OP), because the WS is STILL getting some of his/her needs met by the BS. You are still offering affection, perhaps admiration, conversation and family, by keeping everything afloat while the WS is off with the OP.<p>advice seeker, no matter how your marriage ends up - reconciliation or divorce - you are going to need to muster every ounce of strength that you can to face the future. You should have laid a good foundation for your marriage via Plan A. You can do no more to effect your H's choice now. He is the only one who can decide if he will return to the marriage. Spend this time wisely - refortify advice seeker. Truly, you can do no better thing than focus on yourself at this point.<p>I know you are lonesome.....
{{{{{{advice seeker}}}}}<p>Keep true to the course! Desiree

trying2_4give, Roll Me Away, and worthatry:<p>I cried as I read your responses to my Post. Not because I don't agree with what you said, but because they are exactly what I don't want to hear. I am looking for validation, which I will not get because, in a true Plan B, I should have NO contact with my spouse.<p>Before I got married I was the most independent individual- I even went to live in Scotland alone. I did not know anybody in that country, and moved there to prove to myself that I could do it on my own. It was the most amazing experience ever. I wish I could go back to those days. Of course now I have a mortgage, huge student loan, career, etc. .. <p>My sister said to me, "where is the old, independent you." I feel like I have lost it. I hate being alone now. I didn't mind it when H and I were together, but now that he is no longer with me, I hate it that much more. <p>I guess it is hard to go back to where I was before marriage because I was still in the college scene. I love to dance and go out, but that gets old and expensive. Now that I have a mortgage on my own, I am strapped for cash!!!!<p>I am trying to do more for myself now, but it is hard. I am fortunate in that I have a very large support network and a sister who was able to move in with me. She keeps me sane. <p>I also have the best family- although my Mom hates my H now. As much as I am upset by his actions, I can't stand it when she bashes him. My co-workers also bash him. Why do I keep protecting him? <p>Yes, trying 2_4give, you were right, I did go into Plan B too soon, but I am there now. I must move forward and focus on me. <p>I am going to live by the advice you all have given me. When in doubt, I will re-read this thread. It hurts, but it is so true. Who wants to be with someone who can't take responsibility for his actions. I need to wait for him to be willing to give us 100%, if that time ever comes. Otherwise, HE IS NOT WORTH IT!!!<p>Thanks again for giving me GREAT advice. As hard as this is, at least I have MB to turn to. A place where everyone understands the pain and hurt of being in this situation. <p>AS

No ones wants to start over or without the one you love. What you are going through/feeling now is normal. It is scary, especially when we are so comfortable with the way our old life was. But now that this new life has been thrust upon you, you can either sink or swim! It's ok to have a pity party once in awhile. Having pain in your heart is not a choice, but to stay miserable is! You are in the first stages of grief and pain...just ride it through. It will get easier to deal with each day that passes. Learn more about yourself, read self-help books, just get to know you again. Don't let your h define who you are.

AS-<p>Like Roll Me Away, I also questioned Steve Harley about this. The answer was similiar. He did say it was alright to send a card during Plan B if it was for an important event such as birthday or something. Just make it short and sweet, with nothing to show you're giving in on the Plan B principles.<p>I also have a question for you. From reading the timetable of your situation, it seems like you went into Plan B faster than anyone I have ever seen. I wondered if Steve suggested that you move so fast and why (if you don't mind my asking!)... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: Always Hopeful ]</p>

Please don't think we don't know how you feel - we can validate THAT!!<p>Just understand that you are normal - we all struggle with our own situations, yet can see the straight and narrow path for others - one of the beauties of this forum.<p>OK?<p>WAT

Thanks to everyone for responding yet again.<p>In answer to your question Always Hopeful, no, Steve did not tell me to go to Plan B. Unfortunately, I probably should have Plan A'd from a distance. I would love to set up a session with Steve, but at the moment I just can't afford it. <p>I will give you a quick version of my story and why I went to Plan B.<p>Husband and I got into a large argument in July. Somehow we decided to take a two week break to think things out. When we talked after the two weeks, I got the "I love you, but I am not in love with you." At this time, I received his cell phone bill and discovered that he was basically talking to OW (co-worker) daily. I confronted him, but he said it was only a good friend. I told him he was having an emotional affair, etc.. but he denied this. I had never heard of this website, and I was so angry, I told him to leave. <p>For two months we didn't speak. Then I got sick of it (and was very confused because I had been happy during our first year of marriage) and went to his house and told him that we had too much going for us to just give up. So, we started to try and work things out. <p>Some days he was very weird still. But, for the most part, he was great. I had read alot of relationship books while we were separated, and I realized alot of things that should have been done differently in marriage. Our biggest mistake was that we barely saw each other and when we did we were with friends. We grew apart.<p>So, when we got back together I made him my first priority again. We had such a good time "hanging"out and reconnecting. I even went on his family vacation (his parents). It was amazing. <p>For two months we were doing well. But, I did catch him in a couple of lies- all dealing with co-worker. He new I had "issues" with her, so he told me he lied so that I wouldn't get upset. Boy, was I naive or what. One of the lies included him spending the night at her house. He told me it was because he was drunk and didn't want to drive home. I always worry about him drinking and driving, so I bought this excuse.<p>Anyway, in October he had 5 days off work. We had such a great time- he helped me plant flowers, he cooked dinner for my brother/SIL, we flew a kite- it was amazing. He told me he loved me again. We even decided he would move home November 1. He went back to work that Monday and came home depressed (however, he wanted to come over, he wasn't supposed to). The next morning he was still acting funny and it hit me- he had feelings for OW. I asked him about it, but told him it was okay if he distanced himself from her. All he told me was that there was things he could never tell me, I would never understand. I basically flipped- we are married.<p>Well, after a tearful day we decided we had to talk. Apparently, I got to close for comfort. He told me there were things he had to tell me and that I may not like. He finally admitted to having feelings for her. I told him I could handle that if he could 1)give 100% commitment to working on our marriage & 2) stop hanging out with OW. He couldn't give me a commitment to working on us, so we decided it was over. He swore he never slept with OW.<p>When he left I called OW and got her to admit that they had in fact had PA, but they are "just good friends." H finally admitted to sleeping with OW a few days later, although initally he denied it, even after OW's confession. He did say that it only happened on two occasions and while we were separated. I do believe him, but only b/c she lived at home with her parents until September. <p>Anyway, we didn't even discuss being together after that time. I don't think H would have respected me if I had. He was so confused and didn't know what was coming or going. So, I told him I needed to distance myself from him- yet I kept calling him. I was in disbelief. He was so upset- throwing up every morning. Yet, the weekend after it all came out, he spent the night at her house. It was about this time I discovered MB and decided to send him Plan B letter. <p>I wish I had not done it so quickly and I am afraid that he will not come back because he cannotface me and my friends/family (my family is VERY close). We have not seen each other in a month. We haven't talked in two weeks. <p>The only thing I am holding onto is the amount of great times we had in those two months we were back together. We had re-connected. It haunts me today, and I hope it haunts him as well. He cannot deny the feelings we had. I told him on a regular basis that, "I had a crush on him again."<p>The day my H finally admitted to his relationship with OW, he apologized and realized that he had to take responsibility for his actions. Whether he was just saying that, only time will tell. I think that he has distanced from OW, but I really am not positive. I have stopped checking up on them- it was making me sick. <p>So, here I am. In the most awful place of my life. I will not send him a card until Christmas. Just the thought of Christmas without him makes me sick. Just last Christmas he took my sister shopping with him to get my presents, and begged me daily to give me one. Does that sound like a man unhappy in his marriage? It makes me cry thinking about it. <p>Sorry for rambling on. I am sure you just wanted a quick synopsis, and look what I have given you....

advice seeker,<p>Plan B is really difficult; it is not for the faint of heart. So, I congratulate you for making a decision about plan B and for your resolve to stick to it. It is very hard work, and there will be many trying times, but we are here for you, anytime.<p>I am 15 months post d-day, 14 months after the end of H's A. There were actually 2 d-days, as H resumed the A a short while after he ended it initally (right after d-day #1). The past 15 months have been unimaginable - lows beyond anything I would have ever thought possible, high hopes for a better rebuilt M, depression for both of us, our careers being stressed by the whole ordeal, many close calls where one of us was ready to file the D papers (mostly me), suicidal thoughts (thankfully no attempts), MC, IC, plan A for 10 months followed by 2 months of merely avoiding LBs followed by 2.5 months of plan C (separation with contact due to our 2 young children), and now reconciliation. After all of this and continuing challenges on both our parts, I really do think that our relationship is better than it ever was and that once we have both healed a little more, our M will be stronger than ever.<p>We did not have a picture perfect Harley discovery, end of A, plan A, plan B, or anything else really. We did not counsel with Steve, although we did have early MC with a good local counsellor. We did not follow any of the M recovery plans (whether SAA, TA, ATA or any other) as H absolutely refused. H did not truly feel sorry for his A for many months after it ended; the fog lasted for at least 9 months; secret contact by e-mail continued, which I would find out about periodically; even when H did finally start to say he was sorry, he always had a mental reserve for the excuses, justifications, rationalizations. In fact, H only really came to accept responsibility for his conduct 13.5 months after d-day.<p>Did I say that our recovery has not been picture perfect?<p>My point is that the Harley model is just that - a model. Just because you did not plan A for the length of time Harley suggests ideally, does not mean that M recovery is doomed. Going to plan A 'too soon' (who is to say what is too soon, anyway) is not determinative. Actually, none of these details is what makes or breaks M recovery. I believe in the MB principles! I think the Harleys give good advice, and I think this site is absolutely invaluable. But I also think that every M is different, every human relationship has its own unique dynamics, and each person handles the challenges of the post-A nightmare in their own individual way.<p>By all means read everything on this site, read all the recommended books that are non-MB, read everything you can get your hands on. But please do not beat yourself up for the things you 'could have done' whether before the A, during it, or after d-day!<p>Let's go back to basics for a moment. Your H had an A; you two may well have "grown apart", but there were many, many choices of conduct available to him and he chose a cruel and selfish option; both of you created the environment of the M pre-A, so both of you need to assess what you can do differently and what you need the other person to do differently; this part can be done together or it can be done apart; then you need to devise a plan to rebuild the M or at least determine whether it is reparable; then you need to implement the plan.<p>So, advice seeker, there is lots you can do while you are in plan B. You don't need to sit around waiting for him to call you to say that it is over with OW, and it is probably the worst thing you can do. Try to work on YOU; work on personal healing. Treat yourself kindly, give yourself the time to eat, sleep, and exercise regularly, socialize with your close women friends, take up a new hobby, see an IC, get meds if you need them, join a book club, do anything that nourishes your soul. You can keep reading on recovery, because you need to recover personally whether or not your M recovers; and you can learn so much about yourself and better relationship habits while you are at it. You can also devise a detailed plan to cover what you are doing, one that is comprehensive and takes into account what you need to recover, irrespective of the status of the M. All throughout getting better yourself, you can leave the door ajar in the event that your H wakes up, ends things with OW for good, takes responsibility for his conduct, and seeks to recommit to the M.<p>You have an opportunity here, advice seeker - an opportunity to focus on you, on healing from this terrible trauma, on personal recovery. Many of us don't pay enough attention to any of this until we are deeply depressed or at emotional/mental or physical risk. This is not lost time. It is time for you to learn to feel better about you.<p>Take the focus off of H. Put the focus completely on you. And come here when you need to vent or when you want a pep talk. We'll be here to support you.<p>Hugs,<p>OneDay<p>[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: OneDay ]</p>

advice seeker,<p>Why can't you tell him exactly what you have posted here? That you have understandings now that you didn't have then, that you would have done things differently if you had known, and that you are open to approach this another way.<p>What do you have to lose? What do you have to gain?<p>Best wishes, Estes

Advice seeker,<p>Hi, I just wanted to throw another "angle" out at you. You had only been M a year, and I don't think your M could have POSSIBLY deteriorated so badly in that short time that you needed a particularly lengthy Plan A. <p>I think you are doing fine, and you just need to remember that these things take time. A's will usually "burn themselves out" and we have to be patient and wait for that to happen. I think that is your best plan right now. Just wait.<p>Since you didn't have DECADES in which to watch your M crumble - as some of us have [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] then I think your Plan A WAS the first year of your M! Stick with your Plan B. <p>You're in the right place. You'll get plenty of support and advice here, from lots of folks who've "been there, done that...." so hang in there!<p>God Bless,
Lupo

You guys are great!<p>OneDay, thank you so much for taking the time out to write me. I am happy to hear you are in recovery and do realize that it is an upward battle, but one worth fighting for. It sounds like you are headed in the right direction. Congrats and keep us posted on your recovery. It really is inspirational to hear of a successful reconciliation.<p>You are so right- I need to focus on me. Today I seem to be a bit happier- yesterday was the pits. I did go to my doctor this morning, and she prescribed meds. I think this should help me focus on me instead of my H. It hopefully will also help me focus on my work.<p>I have done alot of reading about infidelity and relationship's in general. In fact, some would say I have become obsessed with reading on these topics. But, I can truly say that I have learned about mistakes I have made and whatever relationship I enter into next (whether it is with my H or someone else) I know what I will do differently. I have learned from this experience and I realize it will make me a better person in the long run! I am trying to exercise, am definitely losing weight, and DO feel better about myself. As a matter of fact, I am wearing pants today that did not fit me last year [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Also, thanks Lupolady and Estes49. The support I get on this website is helping me understand why I am doing what I am doing. You guys are making me stronger and stronger.<p>Thanks.<p>Advice Seeker