Been real depressed lately, lots of venting posts. Thanks everyone for your help lately. Can't even muster up the strength to post and try to help others on the board lately.<p>H and I went to counseling today (yes I missed my meetings and drove him). H has chosen in the midst of his independence (affair, moving out, etc.) a profession which requires lots of travel. He's still in school, but the travel starts now and will continue for the remainder of his career.<p>My future will be one where my H will be traveling up to a month at a time, 5-6 times a year. (most of them will be 1-2 weeks)<p>I have already made the decision that this is not the type of life I want to live.<p>My counselor says I need to wait and not make this decision because I am still dealing with the affair and that maybe I can learn to become more independent and live this lifestyle.<p>My H pours on the guilt saying he lived the past 6 years doing what I wanted, now it's his turn. That's not fair. We chose that life together, yeah, he resented it and didn't like it, but he never said anything. I don't choose to live this life.<p>So, I either have to accept my H's newfound decision, or not.<p>I don't know what to do. My H says he will keep working on the relationship until I decide, but that he would like to know soon so he can be prepared if I decide to "give him up" (instead of losing him again as I put it).<p>I feel this incredible weight on my shoulders. Why is this my decision to make? I told him that, and he says, because there's nothing he can do for me, he'll just go along with whatever I decide.<p>I know I am supposed to be in control of my life, but I don't feel it. I can't stop crying, I can't stop shaking. I just know that I need to choose to divorce my H. But it hurts so much to think about that. To make that decision, but I know I have to...<p>What other option do I have? I accept my H's decision. I am happy that he has found in passion in life, be happy that I can help him enjoy his life while I 100% support the family (no $$ in his job). Somehow, someway I learn to do it all and not feel resentful. Somehow I find the time to raise 3 kids, keep up with their activities, and work my high-stress, long-hour engineering job while he is away so I can support us and his education.<p>I don't know how I find the strength to do this. How? How do I get control and work on the things I want in life when all I want is a normal family?<p>Please, lord, help me get through this day and the next and the next and show me what I need to do to be happy again...<p>I feel like I am living a lie, that it is wrong for me to try and be in recovery. What's the point of recovering from the affair if we no longer want the same things in life and ultimately we will get divorced anyway?<p>I really don't know what to do. Please help me stop crying, give me some hope, tell me to just get divorced and find someone new, just anything to not be like this... To feel trapped, out of control, like any decision I make is the wrong one, like not doing anything is the wrong decision.<p>Thanks everyone.
HbH

HbH, <p>You are trying to make a life changing decision in a highly emotional state. You want to make this decision without trying? <p>Come on there HbH, your H is also between a rock and a hard place. This job is inviting, kinda like an A. Looks good until you actually get into it. What if he finds out he does not like it? Throw your M away on a definite maybe? This does not sound like you. <p>You MC is right, you need to wait a bit. We will be here to support you and hear you vent. As to your H's complacency, well maybe some others will speak to that. I believe it is part of the healing process. The part that I would like to kick in the _ _ _. I know about this and it makes me mad. So you have support on that part but really really? You have to be patient. <p>Remember the distorted view the WSs have carried around for a long time. Don't think that will go away right away. It may spill over to other things. <p>Clear mind, calm heart my dear.<p>{{{hugs}}}<p>L.

HbH, I am so sorry for your pain, I think orchid is right don't try to make a decision like that in such an emotional state. I don't have much advice but I wanted to reply and let you know that I feel the same emotional pain that you are feeling and that you are not alone. Please take care of yourself. ((((Hugs)))<p>
Love Sally

HbH--<p>Please don't make this decision while you are still emotional...wait 15 days....<p>You started a prayer on your post...keep praying...give it to God...listen to your inner voice...<p>But, please, no decision right now!!!

I don't know if I should be answering or not. The way I feel tonight, I probably shouldn't.<p>As you know I was a military wife. My H was so involved with his career from day one. I had to be independent. He left me to do what he wanted when we were first married. When we had kids---he still did what he wanted. I raised my kids with very little support from him. I was the secretary, chef, cleaner, worker(I always worked at least part time), nurse, taxi driver, scheduler. He came home usually late at night and was too tired from his stressful day to do anything. He often went to bed at 8:30 or 9--while I was up doing the bills. <p>He helped on 2 occasions when the kids had the flu and threw up all over---and that is about it. <p>I worked full time for him bringing up his squadron--and when something would come up, and I had to clear something through him, he was often callous, cold and too stressed out to help.<p>But I was the great military wife, always standing behind him, cheering him on, paying for HIS masters(which the AF could have paid for--but he didn't want to be committed for another 5 years)--<p>I guess what I am saying is....I stayed with him because I thought my family was something special. In the back of my mind, I think I thought there was something wrong with me---because he was always saying there was. So I just kept plugging away. When I had my second child--he left four 4 months for training. When I had my 3 child--he was having an affair and would leave for work at 4:30 in the morning and often not get home until 11 or so. That was only when he was working in town. For weeks, he would be in CA with his lover. <p>If you want to be strong and independent, that is one thing. But figure out what is important to you. I thought that by doing all that, being strong and independent, taking good care of my family and kids, loving and supporting my H and his career---I could have it all. Women would always ask me how I did it all. How I handeled the squadron, went back to school and still kept my four kids going. I tell you it was hard. But I had no sympathy from my H. He told me that that was my job. He said that I knew what I was getting into when I married him. Well, I bought into that......and I think I would do it much differently now. <p>Find out what is important to you and your kids. Perhaps give it a try and reevaluate in a little while. Don't do it for 21 years before you realize it is a mistake.<p>Sorry this isn't very uplifting. Take Care Pat

{{{{{{{{HbH}}}}}}}}}<p>I've never replied to any of your posts, as I don't post much myself. But I have read your advice and some of your story over the past few months. You deserve to treat yourself well tonight. Take a hot bath, with some nice smelly bubbles, pamper yourself a bit. Go to bed early if you can.<p>I have to agree with the others. Do not make a decision right this second. Give it time. A few weeks, maybe a bit more. Perhaps even ask your MD for some anti-depressants to get you through this time. <p>I do have a few questions for you if your up to answering. If I'm insensitive at all, please forgive me. <p>The first is, if there wasn't any A's in the picture, how would you feel about your H's decision to take this job? Could it be that your afraid his traveling may put him in other tempting positions? <p>How can he do all the traveling and still be in school? From what you described, he will be gone much throughout a semester. Something might have to give, and perhaps the traveling won't be all it's cracked up to be. Especially if he isn't making much money.<p>All of the things you described yourself doing is completely overwhelming, and you would be supporting the family 100%. Would it be different if he were out of the picture? Wouldn't you still be doing all of that, plus more?<p>Divorcing him and finding someone else, may not be the answer. With that comes all sorts of other problems. It just looks appealing right now to escape the pain your in. <p>You can and will get through this. Everyone here is here to support you and help you when you need it. Try not to think about the what-if's right now. Sit on your decision for awhile, afterall, it's hard to go back once you move forward.<p>Take care of yourself.
Kathy

well hbh, I won't try to sugarcoat it, you know my opinion and it hasn't changed, based on your reports re your H behaviour he has consistently acted solely in his best interests. He is manipulative, controlling, and self-serving. He does only what is in his best interests. I wasn't going to rain on your parade when you got your hopes up, I hoped I was mistaken. I still hope I am mistaken. But all I see is you reacting to your H, he dictates how your relationship goes. He keeps drilling holes in the boat and you keep scurrying about trying to plug them....you have to ask yourself why is he drilling holes in the boat? Until you find the answer to that question (give up denial), you will remain unhappy. The harleys make it absolutely clear, MB does not work unless BOTH people follow the program, your H is not, and apparently has no intention of ever doing so. I won't tell you(or anyone) your marriage is over....but I can tell you this...you cannot lose something you never had. Too many of us confuse the picture with the reality, and when we lose the picture we think we have lost the reality, but in fact we have not.....we have woke up.<p>hbh...I have already made the decision that this is not the type of life I want to live.<p>snl...Are you sure? Is it a deal breaker? Don't say it if you don't mean it.<p>hbh...My counselor says I need to wait and not make this decision because I am still dealing with the affair and that maybe I can learn to become more independent and live this lifestyle.<p>snl...One thing I have learned, and that is there will be people standing in line forever telling you what to do. It makes no difference what your counsellor thinks, what MB thinks, what the folks on this thread think (including me of course)....there is only one person living in hbh skin, and her opinion is the only one that matters, cause she has to live with the consequences.<p>hbh....My H pours on the guilt saying he lived the past 6 years doing what I wanted, now it's his turn. That's not fair. <p>snl...No kidding it is not fair, an A+ for hbh in perception class.....it is blatant manipulation 101, he knows how to push your buttons. The good thing is he is revealing who he is by doing so...do you see?<p>hbh...So, I either have to accept my H's newfound decision, or not.<p>If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a D...ultimatum, and that has little to do with poja and love. He doesn't love you hbh, he loves himself, you are an acessory to his life, tolerated long as you comply, and thrown a bone occassionally to keep you happy, it isn't much fun to realize that, and the urge is to rehabilitate such folks, but that is usually like teaching a pig to fly. The thing is hbh, I have come to realize this is not uncommon, there are lots of people with that kind of psychology, and they seek out people who are givers, and easily guilted, and marry them for obvious reasons. I don't think this is a plan, or even malicious, but it clearly is what happens. He is confused, it is not you making the choice....it is him, he picks you, or he picks something else. I told you repeatedly, and I will tell you again (and the rest of the bs, especially female bs) until your wsh agrees to and follows extraordinary precautions and enthusiastically attempts to employ MB principles, you have no marriage, and are probably married to someone with a personality disorder who will never meet your needs. Your H has not done this, has not even come close, he has used you for his needs, and played you like a fiddle. Is he salvagable? I don't know, but until you play hardball you will not know either. I don't want to make you feel any worse hbh, but you deserve honesty, everyone deserves honesty, and I have to say, you have never posted anything re your H that struck me as the slightest bit for real positive, and you have repeatedly rolled over and shown your belly [if you are into dog analogies [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ]. He does what he wants, cause he can...ya know? In a way that works against one too, cause it makes us appear weak on a primal level, it is possible (and the last gasp as well) that when you walk away from him (and mean it) he will change, but if he does, be very very wary, and make him comply with all the rules, one false step and you are gone forever...and mean it. By being strong you make yourself desireable, the question really is, do you want him..... forget the history, forget you think you love him, forget the kids.....look at him through an engineers eyes, is he marriage material, or is he an accident looking for a place to happen....and as misery in missouri pointed out (and frankly the best reply I saw on this thread) do you want to be where the accident occurs?<p>hbh....I don't know what to do. My H says he will keep working on the relationship until I decide, but that he would like to know soon so he can be prepared if I decide to "give him up" (instead of losing him again as I put it).<p>snl...You are too smart to fall for this hbh. I would be outraged and let him have it with both barrels, how dare he manouvre you into being the bad guy, and torment you like this, with the idea he is working on it.....He is such a LIAR, his actions make him a blatant lieing sob, and this manipulative crap again reveals his true nature... Pardon me for trashing your H, I mean him no personal illwill, but I do hate controllers (or rather their behaviour), and I am doing my best to open your eyes to the very real possibility you are married to someone who will never see the world in any way but how he is affected.<p>hbh....I feel this incredible weight on my shoulders. Why is this my decision to make? I told him that, and he says, because there's nothing he can do for me, he'll just go along with whatever I decide.<p>snl...His hubris is breathtaking. So tell him cool, you decide he finds another career. You have no decision to make re him, you can only decide for you.....and he for himself. So tell him you are gonna continue to live your life, raise your child, and he will know where to find you if he wants you..... his choice.<p>hbh....I know I am supposed to be in control of my life, but I don't feel it. I can't stop crying, I can't stop shaking. I just know that I need to choose to divorce my H. But it hurts so much to think about that. To make that decision, but I know I have to...<p>snl...If life takes you to that crossroads, you are feeling what everyone feels, that is why you must let your cognitive side be in charge, decide a course of action, draw the blueprint, turn off your emotions, and build it to specs. Emotions are useless in divorce, all we want to do is run away and hide, and let someone else take care of it, and call us when it is over...but we can't, we are adults, and good or bad we need to live our lives.<p>hbh....What other option do I have? <p>snl..Lots, if you believe to the depths of your soul you and H are bonded, and you can trust him with your life....then change your life to accomodate this if you are enthusiastic. Get a telecommuting job, let your H figure out expenses, whatever.....it can work...but only if he is the one, and you are the one.<p>hbh...I accept my H's decision. I am happy that he has found in passion in life, be happy that I can help him enjoy his life while I 100% support the family (no $$ in his job). Somehow, someway I learn to do it all and not feel resentful. Somehow I find the time to raise 3 kids, keep up with their activities, and work my high-stress, long-hour engineering job while he is away so I can support us and his education.<p>I don't know how I find the strength to do this. How? How do I get control and work on the things I want in life when all I want is a normal family?<p>snl....wanting what you want is no different than what he wants, neither of you is right or wrong, and kids thrive wherever they are when raised by loving parents. IMO the issue isn't his career, it is the doubt in your mind he loves you (and with good cause), if you were bonded this would be poja'd and your life would be different but you and he would find a solution that works for both of you..... This is what happens when marriages are not bonded, are quid pro quos of one kind or another, he is not meeting your terms, and you are not meeting his terms, so the marriage ends, or someone is unhappy and resentful...that does not mean someone is evil, it just means those two people can't be married.<p>hbh...Please, lord, help me get through this day and the next and the next and show me what I need to do to be happy again...<p>snl...He will, and IMO the tool he provides to us is radical honesty, we can't see His will very well unless we are straight with ourself, and with one whom we would be mates with. <p>hbh....I feel like I am living a lie, that it is wrong for me to try and be in recovery. What's the point of recovering from the affair if we no longer want the same things in life and ultimately we will get divorced anyway?<p>
snl....IMO feelings are important, if they say your life is a lie, and your reason verifies it is a lie, you pretty much have found the truth, to not act on it would be denial.<p>hbh...I really don't know what to do. Please help me stop crying, give me some hope, tell me to just get divorced and find someone new, just anything to not be like this... To feel trapped, out of control, like any decision I make is the wrong one, like not doing anything is the wrong decision.<p>snl....Baby steps hbh, give yourself a little time to recover your balance, work out a plan, and then stick to it, the truth will be revealed. You did once you know, you were gonna plan b, and you reneged, you took him back on his terms, the results were inevitiable....he manipulated you, saw he could make it stick, and the rest was predictable, so pick yourself up off the floor, bruised a little more, but a little more smarted and resolved, decide how you want to live the rest of your life, how you get there (including what work H must do) and do it girl.<p>btw if you haven't yet get Dr phil mcgraws book on mananging your life, and read it NOW. He explains very clearly how you take control of your life, and make it be the life you want it to be.

HbH,<p>I was ready to post to you and then read fishlady's response. Please listen to her. She has some very valid points. Very smart lady.<p>I'm so sorry you're going thru this right after the A and all else you've been thru. You've worked so hard and put so much thought into your decisions, I hate to see you chuck it all now, without at least giving it as much thought and care as you did your recovery decision.<p>HbH, rest for now. Relax into the holiday. The decisions that need to be made will be there when you're ready.<p>Love and prayers to you, Honey.
Jo

Hi everyone. Thanks for your support. Fishlady asked me some questions, so I will answer those first.<p>Yes, I have thought very hard about it, and I would definately have major issues with this decision, it just happened to occur in the midst of my H's affair which just gives me double the pain. The affair just intensifies some aspects of my feelings, but they are not new feelings.<p>About H traveling with school. Sigh. Right now, he is in school, he will be traveling next week for 5 days, and he will periodically go on school "field trips" that take him away for days at a time. After he graduates, he will go to various field schools which last 1-4 weeks in duration, and will attend graduate school when he is not traveling. As part of some of the graduate work, he will need to travel. When all that is done, then he goes on 5-6 trips a year to various places anywhere from 1 day - 4 weeks in duration.<p>His schedule is not even close to being set in stone, and it's basically adhoc, whenever something comes up or some trip arises, then he's gone. <p>You ask about me supporting the family 100%. I feel it would be very different if he were out of the picture. I would move to be closer to family and let them help me, or I would quit my job, decrease our living expenses (move) and live the life of a single parent, with the hopes of eventually finding a person that had the same goals in life as me. At least I would have hope and a plan.<p>But, I see your point. I could do these things even with my H in the picture (except he has been adamantly opposed to these in the past). But why should I have to give up my life so he can be happy? (that's funny because my H always says that's what he did for me. But he choose to do that and I had no clue what was going on).<p>I am definately not looking forward to starting a new relationship, or even think it would be easy. It would just be something to eventually look forward to. I would not go out looking.<p>My C says I catastrophize too much. So how do you not do that?<p>I will try to see my doctor tomorrow to get on meds again. That sucks, I thought I was doing so well...<p>I also want to share with you my H's perspective from what I understand. He feels as though he has spent the last 6 years living the life I wanted. He didn't know what he wanted to do, and I frequently questioned and asked him what what he wanted, but he just didn't know. He had no drive, yet he felt trapped and resentful of me (without realizing it apparently).<p>He used his affair as a way to "break free" from my "control" / entrapment of his life (lack of self-motivation on his part). To figure out what he wanted with his life. It was a catalyst to help him move forward out of his depression. He regrets it entirely and is out of the fog. He now realizes he could have gained the same results and saved us both the heartache that his affair caused.<p>But, affair aside, he has FINALLY figured out what he wants apparently, what makes him happy (aside from his family). This new career and travel. He wants to be able to take breaks from his regular life and go out and live and explore (because I got to go on trips when I was younger and he didn't - guilt trip). I say let's take family trips and explore together - he wants to do it on his own.<p>Orchid, you have a point. Maybe this is just a phase and he will decide he doesn't really like it, but I can't count on that.<p>I agree with most of you that I need to wait and not decide, that's why in my title I say that I think I will make that decision, not that I already have.<p>For now, I guess I just don't see the point of recovery. Shouldn't this be resolved before we go forward? How do I fake it? What keeps me going and moving toward recovery? The thought that we'll either be able to work it out eventually or that I know I can always quit later?<p>SnL, thank you for your comments. Many of them were very insightful, and I do agree with alot of what you said. However, you need to take into consideration that my H is going through changes/phases as well. He has not always been like this, it is not his intention. He is trying to grasp hold of his life. And, although I realize these things, they do not help me get over my feelings. They just help me to understand why he makes the decisions and acts the way he does.<p>Yes, that does mean he is being very self-centered and only thinking of himself right now. Again, he has not always been this way. He is trying to get hold of his life. <p>So, the good, supportive wife, simply understands what my H is going through, is there to support him, and somehow deals with all the repercussions until it either gets so bad that change is better than staying where I am, or we POJA and work it out.<p>Wonderful. Except my H just had an affair and I don't know how someone becomes strong enough to actually DO that given this detail.<p>I guess on the bright side, this is alot better than D-day, and at least I do not have the typical suicidal thoughts I used to get when I was this depressed...<p>I wrote down some things for my H. I will probably show them to him tomorrow. Will let you know how I make out.<p>Thanks again everyone for replying to me and showing you care.
HbH

Hi there HbH,<p>I was struck by your last post, you don't want to do something, and he does. Are you both following MB principals? If so, where is the POJA? If BOTH of you are not in total agreement, and happily so, he should NOT take this job. He is manipulating you at a very vulnerable time in your life, and that is not fair.<p>What about you though? I can see a lot of resentment is still there from the A (natural, I know - that is NOT a criticism). In such a state, you are hardly going to agree to H going off anywhere for weeks or even overnight, without you. For him to expect that is selfish, yes. Now is not the time for you. <p>Yes, your counsellor is right in saying that you need to hold off on your decision to end the marriage. Maybe there are some other things you could do:<p>1. Let him take the job. It may work out great for you both.<p>2. Point blank refuse that he take the job. Risky.<p>3. Sit down and HONESTLY discuss with him WHY you don't want him to take the job - in otherwords state your case. <p>4 (Leading on from (3)) Try to establish a POJA together.<p>5. Get a similar type of job yourself (!).<p>6. Try to have him agree to hold off on this job for a couple of months, until you can get your head around IT and the A....tell him it might make the world of difference, which it is likely to.<p>I had a situation a little bit similar...H wanted a job BADLY in a third world country, and I didn't like the idea, and told him so. He sulked, coerced friends, did all he could to get his way. He got his way. We split up while we were OS. I wish to almighty God I had put my foot down, because prior to our separation were the hardest two years I have ever known...which he still says had nothing to do with our breakdown. But you know, had he not got his way, he probably would have sulked and had A's anyway. Can't win sometimes (rolleyes).<p>Anyway, <p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Hi Nina. <sigh>. No we are not following MB principles, although I talked to H a little last night and told him that I found the section online where it talks about the "plan for recovery" (the four rules) that I mentioned to him before and I was wondering if he wanted to read them.<p>He said he was interested (even sounded like it), so I left them for him today. We shall see. <p>H has yet to fill out his EN questionnaire but claims things are going to get alot better once his 3rd shift job ends (Monday is his last night, then he switched to part-time mornings).<p>I'll believe this when I see it of course.<p>I also wrote out alot of the stuff I was feeling (similar to your #3 that you listed). You are right that it is not fair for me to have to deal with this on top of the affair, but alas I have no say in that.<p>I have not brought it up yet. H and I are supposed to have a nice Thanksgiving / vacation so I don't want to ruin that.<p>He asked me at least 4 times yesterday what was wrong and said I looked like I was about to cry. Well duh, at least he notices I guess.<p>I also told him I was going to see the doctor about getting on Wellbutrin (or whatever it is), and how one of the side effects is increased sexual appetite, and do you know what he did? He THANKED ME, wasn't interested in why I was getting on antidepressants again, was just happy that it may increase my sex drive (I have not been in the mood at ALL lately).<p>So callous sometimes, but I personalize, in reality I know he didn't mean it like that...<p>I do feel a little better today. I just don't know how I will get through next week yet. I know I am going to blow it, I just know it.<p>Thanks for the advice Nina!
HbH

Hi,<p>Your posts today sound a bit better than the first one. Glad your going to talk to your doctor. By no means taking anti-depressants an indication of how well you are doing. As you know, they are not "magic happy pills" they just help us get through some bad times.<p>Could your H's thank you re: the pills have meant to address why you've been so sad the past few days? He obviously noticed, he's asked you but you haven't told him. So, perhaps he knows the medication will help you through whatever it is.<p>I can relate to the catastrophizing part of your personality. I do it as well, but usually only when it's my life.<p>You stay strong, and enjoy your holiday. Relax, and have fun. You deserve it.<p>Take care,
Kathy