Of course, we talked last night...or rather I talked...talked...talked and he got mad...mad...mad...<p>In his head the stuff in our marriage is either his fault or mine...I am tired of taking the rap...I went into my marriage with my eyes wide open...loving him and expecting him to want to be a husband...<p>of course, now I know what expectations are...but then up until now I knew no other way...<p>I told him that his decision to marry me...despite not being 'in love' with me because he felt guilted into it was selfish...he traded what could have been 'a short period' of mourning for me to the h*** we are in right now...<p>I didn't have a chance to make a decision on my own...he made it for us and then he has been 'unhappy' all of these years and I have been frustrated.<p>Further, having an A to get out of our marriage was also selfish. Yeah, I took a big leap into never-neverland. (Never tell them the big truths of life.) I recounted all his wants and desires over the last six months...heck most of our marriage...and you know what 95% of our problems happened because 'he didn't want to.' That's the bottom line...he didn't want to be married...he didn't want to be a husband...he didn't want to be a father...he didn't want to be a teacher...he didn't want to have a 9-5 job...he didnt...he didn't...<p>Now he did want a car, a truck, a house, a stereo or two...cd stereos for the car and truck, gym memberships, fitness machines, clothes, etc., etc., etc. All the perks without the work or responsibility....<p>I have and will cop to inappropriate anger and frustration...as I was expected to do it all...domestic chores, financial stuff, mechanical stuff, kid stuff, work stuff....and I did it...because it had to be done...because I thought I was doing it for MY FAMILY and the BETTERMENT of my family....(yeah, I am well aware of my co-dependency issues.)<p>Then I find out it is all a lie...I never had a marriage because it was all one-sided...my-sided. I was the only one to 'expect' marital stuff because I was the only one who wanted the marriage and believed in the marriage in the first and last place.<p>So now what do I do? <p>He's all angry and hurt about the 'selfish' statements...part of me is glad cause he's thinking...part of me is mad at myself for saying it...<p>We've been 'stuck' for so long in one place in our marriage...the A only served to lift the haze for me...truth revealed...<p>[ November 21, 2001: Message edited by: TryingAgain ]</p>

have you read Melody Beattie's books on Co-dependency?<p>How about her book on the Language of Letting Go?

Yes...I just re-read her two books on Co-Dependency...was thinking of looking at the Language of Letting Go.<p>I only wish that when I bought them 10 years ago I would have paid closer attention and really DONE something about my issues.

okay...I expected a few thumbs down on this one...guess when you know you've been incredibly stupid you really shouldn't seek validation for such...

I don't think you were stupid, you had a rough spell, happens to the best of us! Sometimes it helps to NOT KEEP ALL YOUR PAIN INSIDE ALL THE TIME. Sometimes BS need to let off steam and speak thier minds. It is usually the WS who is most offended because they know they have been seen for their true colors and they don't want to be made to look into the mirror. It is too painful for them, so they look the other way. Don't beat yourself up over this. I think you haven't gotten as many responses due to the holiday tomorrow for those of us from the USA! It's THANKSGIVING TOMORROW and a lot of us are off early getting prepared! TAKE HEART AND SMILE!

T/A - I am new here and am not by any stretch of the imagination a councelor and mentor. i can comment on something you said though as it relates to me.<p>I'm beginning to think that - in hindsight - I too made the same mistake your husband made. My wife and i were engaged less than 60 days after meeting. She was still married to her now ex-husband at the time. We were together over a year and a half before we married. By the time our marriage happened I was having second thoughts regarding our relationship and my ability to adapt to a different lifestyle. I'm afraid I too have crafted a situation where the paiin would have been less back then than what we're going through now.<p>Why did I not back out before it was too late. Fear. Fear of being alone (my own selfishness). Fear of hurting her again like her previous 2 husbands had done. Fear for her well-being (we moved into a larger house that she could not afford on her own).<p>And like your H - I too catch myself saying "I" this and "I" that - never "we". In one of my prior posts I made the admission that I don't think I ever really COMMITTED to the relationship. Now I have to discover why.<p>I wish you luck - I see that you've posted here many times. I'll continue lurking here and getting food for thought.

Hey TA,<p>You know, 2 1/2 years ago I could have written your post almost word for word. I know what it feels like to be stuck. <p>I think our H's use their affairs as ways to get unstuck when they don't have the courage to unstick themselves. They hope we'll be the "bad guys" and tell them to get lost. They want us to make their decision for them so they can get off scott free.I believe it's more of their selfish nature.<p>You need your H to make a decision about whether or not he wants to be a willing participant in your marriage or not. You need him to make this decision in order for you to know how to carry on in your own life and obtain some much needed peace. He currently shows no motivation to make that decision and hasn't from the get go. Why? I believe because there is nothing motivating him to make a decision one way or the other. Nothing has changed for him except that his wife is new and improved, but that serves to make him feel more guilty. He has a new and improved wife, he has no consequences for refusing to participate in the marriage, you take care of everything that is important and he gets to continue spewing forth the same sentiments he's had for months on end.<p>TA, we see your misery. You have the power within your own self to give H the motivation he needs to make up his mind. Right now he sees the marriage as an obstacle to his fulfillment. My H felt the same way. It was only in experiencing what divorce was going to be like that opened his eyes to the fact that a divorce was going to leave him a whole lot more unfulfilled than staying in the marriage was. Seeing me finally have the courage to remove myself from the pain he had/was inflicting with his indecision and watching me pick myself up and have the motivation to move towards recovery with or without him, motivated him to make a decision. He couldn't just be complacent anymore and continue to blame me for everything. He had to take a good hard look and make up his mind because I was moving forward. I wasn't waiting anymore. He had to either chose me and the marriage or chose divorce. He was able to finally make that choice, and do it a lot easier when he got to see and feel what it was going to be like to be divorced. Our separation was very beneficial.<p>Is there a reason why you are trying to avoid a separation? You mentioned that avoidance in someone else's post and I often wonder why BS try sooo hard and at such huge emotional,mental and physical cost to avoid a separation when it has so much potential to change a stale, painful situation. Really what are the added risks of separation vs. continued Plan A? You get to your end point sooner than later.You get there with more of your self esteem intact and with emotions that are less tattered,both of these are important things to have whether you move into recovery or divorce.<p>For me, at close to 40,with 3 kids, I figured it was better for me if he made up hismind sooner rather than later. I knew I had a life to live with him or without him. I had to know where I stood in order to keep my sanity and get some peace. Yet I hadto find a way for him to make the decision he needed to make himself. We needed a catalyst and the separation was just that.<p>I see you have been making statements that show your resentment is growing and you are becoming indifferent.You talk about that "bitter" pill. You talk about not caring if he wants to spend more time and energy contacting OW #1 and #2 than he wants to spend on repairing the marriage. TA,he has to want this marriage and see the VALUE in it before he gets to the point of wanting to repair it. How can he ever get to that point TA, if he never gets to experience what it's like to live without all the benefits of being married to you?<p>To continue in Plan A indefinitely is not healthy plain and simple. To wait indefinitely for his MLC to end no matter what the emotional,physical and mental cost to you is not healthy either. That is why there is Plan B.You asked him to go, he said no. End of story? Legal separation is another option.<p>The Harley's plan to restore a marriage does not end with Plan A. <p>It's not wishful thinking to envision a restored marriage and a changed H. If it happened for me it can happen for someone else too. I also think that you would be doing yourself, your H and your marriage a service if you kept moving personally forward and did not allow yourself to remain "stuck" any longer.<p>Hugs to you TA and all the best to you too!

Thanks mthrr...you have given me this advice over and over...I haven't been able to hear it...(I am C A L I.)<p>My reality is becoming 'realer?' I am getting stronger. I was 'afraid' of finances...losing him...all the emotions that embroil you when you realize that your life is not what you thought it was...<p>Yeah...I am pushing him to make the decision...and I guess the MB way would be to tell him outright... if you are staying that means we are taking steps toward recovery...if not, then we need to take steps toward separation...'cause I'm not so afraid of life on my own anymore...I WANT YOU...but not this way??? <p>Thanks again for your sage advice. I really to appreciate it and have been internalizing it.<p>C A L I